The BCCI needs to create two pools of 150 kph pacers and 145 kph pacers and groom them with special care

[express bowling]

If we look at Great cricket teams in the last 50 years ... most of them had at least one 150 kph type express pacer who could rough up the opposition when nothing was happening.  Cricket is played with a very hard ball and batsmen have always been scared of getting hit on the head and body by express pacers. It gives the team with super quick pacers a psychological advantage and makes the opposition very uncomfortable, even if such pacers are not picking loads of wickets.

 

Thomson and Holding were express pace for their era ( whatever their actual speeds were ). The great WI team used the express pace of Patrick Patterson from 1986 to 1993. The great Aussie team of the 2000s used the 155 kph pace of Brett Lee. South Africa always had a top class bowling attack and there was usually a pacer bowling upto early 150s. Even now they have Nortje. 

 

... Accurate and highly skilled Fast bowlers bowling 135 kph to 147 kph or thereabouts ( F ) 

... have combined very well with Express pacers bowling 140 kph to 153 kph ( E ), to form potent pace attacks.

... And many of them had very, tall and Bouncy pacers to make things even tougher ( B )

Like 

Lillee F  + Thomson E

Marshall. F  + Holding. E  +  Garner. B

Ambrose. F + Patterson  E  + Walsh. B

Gillespie. F + Lee  E  + McGrath  B

Shoaib  E + Asif. B  ( combo for a short time )

Harris F + Johnson E  ( combo for a short time )

Steyn. F + Morkel. E

Cummins  F  +  Starc. E  +  Hazlewood  B

Rabada. F. +  Nortje. E

 

In test matches, the top class Indian pace attack of 2018 to 2021 had/has the composition

 

Bumrah  F. +  Shami. F  +  Ishant. B.  or

Bumrah. F. +  Umesh/ Shami  F. + Siraj. FM

 

We need a truly Express Pacer to make our fast bowling invincible.

 

We could not utilize Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron properly when they were express pacers between 2011 to 2017. They did not have good quality fast bowlers to aid them.

 

The BCCI should search every nook and craney of the country to find such pacers, groom them and play them in domestic cricket, especially the 4 day format games.

 

The best of the lot can play for India A and then Team India.

 

It is inevitable that a few of such express pacers will be sprayguns.  But we should not be deterred by that. Which is why it is important to make a big pool of such fast bowlers and then pick the best.

 

.... 21 year old Umran Malik should be the first in this express bowling pool. Looks very promising.

 

.... Navdeep Saini should be monitored and brought back to full fitness.

 

.... @rkt.india has posted videos of Nikhil Kohli from Uttarakhand. He looks very quick.

 

....  @Mosher , @Suhaan and @nsareen  who follow Indian domestic cricket fast bowlers very closely, may suggest more names too.

 

....  Irfan Pathan did a fantastic job of fine tuning the action of express pacer Umran Malik ... and can be given charge of such express quicks. 

 

Time to act is now.

 

 

145 kph pacers in 2021 would include ....

 

Bumrah

 

Siraj  .. only in white ball cricket and some tests in Asia

 

Prasidh

 

Tyagi

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

We can usd this thread to monitor the performances of exoress quicks from India.

 

 

[express bowling]

Umran Malik  4 wickets for just 22 runs from 4 overs today vs Haryana, helping his team win.

 

Both economical and wicket taking.

Edited November 6, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Saini  1 for 24 from 4 overs vs UP

[Pollack]

Just now, express bowling said:

Saini  1 for 24 from 4 overs vs UP

What happened to Saini? Looked very good and into the scheme of things then suddenly disappeared. 

[express bowling]

Nikhil Kohli took 3 for 27 vs the good batting line-up of Delhi.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Pollack said:

What happened to Saini? Looked very good and into the scheme of things then suddenly disappeared. 

 

 

He had an impact injury and split his finger webbing during IPL 2020.  After that he was played despite back spasms in Australia.

 

He needs to come back to full fitness first. Only then can he come back to Team India reckoning again.

 

He was a very good bowler between 2017 to 2020, but was picked very late for India.

 

I am happy to see that he is bowling economically in SMAT 2021.

[Lone Wolf]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

He had an impact injury and split his finger webbing during IPL 2020.  After that he was played despite back spasms in Australia.

 

He needs to come back to full fitness first. Only then can he come back to Team India reckoning again.

 

He was a very good bowler between 2017 to 2020, but was picked very late for India.

 

I am happy to see that he is bowling economically in SMAT 2021.

Do you think his natural outswing is gone now...  That came in with the angle & straighten up in last minute.  Probably his peak got wasted..  We wasted too much time playing Unadkat's & Nehraji in 2017-18 period in limited overs cricket I reckon. 

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Do you think his natural outswing is gone now...  That came in with the angle & straighten up in last minute.  Probably his peak got wasted..  We wasted too much time playing Unadkat's & Nehraji in 2017-18 period in limited overs cricket I reckon. 

 

 

Saini's biggest strength was seaming the ball both ways at very high pace, targeting the top of off stump.

 

It's my personal opinion that he rarely bowled well when he tried to swing the ball and kept bowling half volleys and got hit.

 

He is at his best bowling good length, off stump and punctuating this with bouncers from time to time. 

 

The video below is a good example ... mostly good length bowling with the ball seaming after pitching. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

26 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Do you think his natural outswing is gone now...  That came in with the angle & straighten up in last minute.  Probably his peak got wasted..  We wasted too much time playing Unadkat's & Nehraji in 2017-18 period in limited overs cricket I reckon. 

Remember Trent Copeland from Australia, I don't remember when was the last time Australia played a bowler like him in tests, Australia rarely do that

They know what they do,LOIs well they have been like India

In tests they know importance of pace to make things happen,140+ pacers have more options to deal with,they will surely get things back in LOIs too,we are so late even to react ,thanks to Bumrah,Shami,Umesh,Siraj they bowl at fair clips in tests else it wouldn't have been any different from our LOI attack, Im nit sure how great a bowling coach Arun is when he had a fair look at our bowling attack for LOIs for good 6 years,why did he fail to understand the need of pace in LOIs too?

[Adamant]

In Lois I definitely agree with OP, we need 150 kmph pacers, as a 150 kph bowler bowling hard length is exactly the kind of bowling which is successful these days. 

 

Sorry, but 150 kmph is not at all needed in tests. 

Brett lee was the scattergun in Australia's bowling lineup, they would have done better with Stuart Clarke or Kasprowicz. 

Australia would have done better with Pattinson, Starc basically played all these tests just bcoz Pattinson was out. 

 

We have Bumrah, a 140 kph bowler who can crank it upto 150 and other 135 - 145 kph upcoming bowlers in Siraj, Karthik and Prasidh. I think that's enough, focus on improving line, length and skills and not on pace. 

 

Neither Steyn nor Morkel can be categorised as 150 kph bowlers. 

 

Anrich Nortje hasn't uprooted any trees in test cricket yet and I don't think he will be as successful as someone like Siraj despite his speed. 

 

The likes of Mark Wood and Riaz did nothing of note in tests despite their 150+ speeds. 

 

135-150 speed with proper skills an control, that's pretty much it. 

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

 

In tests they know importance of pace to make things happen,140+ pacers have more options to deal with,they will surely get things back in LOIs too,we are so late even to react ,thanks to Bumrah,Shami,Umesh,Siraj they bowl at fair clips in tests else it wouldn't have been any different from our LOI attack, Im nit sure how great a bowling coach Arun is when he had a fair look at our bowling attack for LOIs for good 6 years,why did he fail to understand the need of pace in LOIs too?

 

 

I got the feeling that Arun, Shastri etc. had much better understanding of the requirements of test cricket compared to modem day LOIs.

 

Tests are still essentially the same as the 1980s ( when Arun and Shastri played ) while T20s were not there and ODIs have evolved completely. 

 

Arun, Shastri and most of our selectors think that knuckle balls and slower balls are the only requirements of seam bowling in LOIs. They somehow miss the 90 mph yorker specialists although we have the best of the best in Bumrah.

[Lone Wolf]

20 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Remember Trent Copeland from Australia, I don't remember when was the last time Australia played a bowler like him in tests, Australia rarely do that

They know what they do,LOIs well they have been like India

In tests they know importance of pace to make things happen,140+ pacers have more options to deal with,they will surely get things back in LOIs too,we are so late even to react ,thanks to Bumrah,Shami,Umesh,Siraj they bowl at fair clips in tests else it wouldn't have been any different from our LOI attack, Im nit sure how great a bowling coach Arun is when he had a fair look at our bowling attack for LOIs for good 6 years,why did he fail to understand the need of pace in LOIs too?

Yep bowling unit regressed under Arun in limited overs for sure.  His defensive lines & tactics gave mixed result mostly. 

I'll give him the credit about what he did in Tests.  His tactics to attack stumps in Australia & don't bowl in channel taking away Aussie batters scoring options like square cut & pull worked like a genius for sure.  Something Root also said they will try to copy. 

He tried something similar in ODIs which unfortunately is a outdated approach.  Lack of pace in Indian limited overs bowling played its part.  New ball skill also got lost in there. 

[Suhaan]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I got the feeling that Arun, Shastri etc. had much better understanding of the requirements of test cricket compared to modem day LOIs.

 

Tests are still essentially the same as the 1980s ( when Arun and Shastri played ) while T20s were not there and ODIs have evolved completely. 

 

Arun, Shastri and most of our selectors think that knuckle balls and slower balls are the only requirements of seam bowling in LOIs. They somehow miss the 90 mph yorker specialists although we have the best of the best in Bumrah.

Maybe they don't want to burn out the test pacers for LOIs 

Or

Maybe they don't understand importance of pace in LOIs as you have mentioned

Or

Maybe test bowling has been top notch by default,as most of them have primed together ,i can fully expect if Siraj had an ordinary tour to Australia we would have seen someone like Porel,Sakaria, Mitchell Unadkat type replacing him in tests as well,they wouldn't have spared a thought on Prasidh ,Avesh

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Adamant said:

In Lois I definitely agree with OP, we need 150 kmph pacers, as a 150 kph bowler bowling hard length is exactly the kind of bowling which is successful these days. 

 

Sorry, but 150 kmph is not at all needed in tests. 

Brett lee was the scattergun in Australia's bowling lineup, they would have done better with Stuart Clarke or Kasprowicz. 

Australia would have done better with Pattinson, Starc basically played all these tests just bcoz Pattinson was out. 

 

We have Bumrah, a 140 kph bowler who can crank it upto 150 and other 135 - 145 kph upcoming bowlers in Siraj, Karthik and Prasidh. I think that's enough, focus on improving line, length and skills and not on pace. 

 

Neither Steyn nor Morkel can be categorised as 150 kph bowlers. 

 

Anrich Nortje hasn't uprooted any trees in test cricket yet and I don't think he will be as successful as someone like Siraj despite his speed. 

 

The likes of Mark Wood and Riaz did nothing of note in tests despite their 150+ speeds. 

 

135-150 speed with proper skills an control, that's pretty much it. 

 

 

If you go through my OP, I have addressed this issue in great detail.

 

You don't need three or four 150 kph pacers in tests. 

 

But a look at Great Test teams tell us that their pace bowling combo have ideally been 

1 F + 1 E + 1 B .. that is

1 Fast Bowler + 1 Express Bowler + 1 Very tall Bounce Bowler.

 

Warne was saying that the Australians always look to include a 150 kph express pacer in their Test Team ... and cited examples of Thomson, Johnson and Starc. And they have been the absolute champions of test cricket for a very long time.

 

The West Indies, the other great champion Test team, have had express pacers throughout the period when they were great between 1976 to 1995.

 

Even If such pacers don't do amazingly well, the battering they give to the opposition batters help other bowlers get wickets.

 

Australia have always preferred Starc over Pattinson even when Patto was fit.

Edited November 6, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

His defensive lines & tactics gave mixed result mostly

He tried something similar in ODIs which unfortunately is a outdated approach.  Lack of pace in Indian limited overs bowling played its part.  New ball skill also got lost in there. 

 

 

2 very important points raised by you.

 

It is even stranger that if attacking the stumps was the tactic then why pick medium pacers !

 

 

[Adi_91]

Nagarkoti, Tyagi, Umraan Malik all need to be monitored and mentored well. The issue I see is, after the exploits of U19 WC, some of these guys seem to go directly to IPL where I hope they are being mentored well.

 

Is the MRF Pace Foundation mentoring these quicks? Will be good to know.

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

In Lois I definitely agree with OP, we need 150 kmph pacers, as a 150 kph bowler bowling hard length is exactly the kind of bowling which is successful these days. 

 

Sorry, but 150 kmph is not at all needed in tests. 

Brett lee was the scattergun in Australia's bowling lineup, they would have done better with Stuart Clarke or Kasprowicz. 

Australia would have done better with Pattinson, Starc basically played all these tests just bcoz Pattinson was out. 

 

We have Bumrah, a 140 kph bowler who can crank it upto 150 and other 135 - 145 kph upcoming bowlers in Siraj, Karthik and Prasidh. I think that's enough, focus on improving line, length and skills and not on pace. 

 

Neither Steyn nor Morkel can be categorised as 150 kph bowlers. 

 

Anrich Nortje hasn't uprooted any trees in test cricket yet and I don't think he will be as successful as someone like Siraj despite his speed. 

 

The likes of Mark Wood and Riaz did nothing of note in tests despite their 150+ speeds. 

 

135-150 speed with proper skills an control, that's pretty much it. 

Kasper wasn't better than Lee either in tests or ODIs 

[rkt.india]

28 minutes ago, Adi_91 said:

Nagarkoti, Tyagi, Umraan Malik all need to be monitored and mentored well. The issue I see is, after the exploits of U19 WC, some of these guys seem to go directly to IPL where I hope they are being mentored well.

 

Is the MRF Pace Foundation mentoring these quicks? Will be good to know.

Nagarkoti needs to bowl more. He has hardly bowled anything since 2018 u19 WC

[vishalvirsingh]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

If we look at Great cricket teams in the last 50 years ... most of them had at least one 150 kph type express pacer who could rough up the opposition when nothing was happening.  Cricket is played with a very hard ball and batsmen have always been scared of getting hit on the head and body by express pacers. It gives the team with super quick pacers a psychological advantage and makes the opposition very uncomfortable, even if such pacers are not picking loads of wickets.

 

Thomson and Holding were express pace for their era ( whatever their actual speeds were ). The great WI team used the express pace of Patrick Patterson from 1986 to 1993. The great Aussie team of the 2000s used the 155 kph pace of Brett Lee. South Africa always had a top class bowling attack and there was usually a pacer bowling upto early 150s. Even now they have Nortje. 

 

... Accurate and highly skilled Fast bowlers bowling 135 kph to 147 kph or thereabouts ( F ) 

... have combined very well with Express pacers bowling 140 kph to 153 kph ( E ), to form potent pace attacks.

... And many of them had very, tall and Bouncy pacers to make things even tougher ( B )

Like 

Lillee F  + Thomson E

Marshall. F  + Holding. E  +  Garner. B

Ambrose. F + Patterson  E  + Walsh. B

Gillespie. F + Lee  E  + McGrath  B

Shoaib  E + Asif. B  ( combo for a short time )

Harris F + Johnson E  ( combo for a short time )

Steyn. F + Morkel. E

Cummins  F  +  Starc. E  +  Hazlewood  B

Rabada. F. +  Nortje. E

 

In test matches, the top class Indian pace attack of 2018 to 2021 had/has the composition

 

Bumrah  F. +  Shami. F  +  Ishant. B.  or

Bumrah. F. +  Umesh/ Shami  F. + Siraj. FM

 

We need a truly Express Pacer to make our fast bowling invincible.

 

We could not utilize Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron properly when they were express pacers between 2011 to 2017. They did not have good quality fast bowlers to aid them.

 

The BCCI should search every nook and craney of the country to find such pacers, groom them and play them in domestic cricket, especially the 4 day format games.

 

The best of the lot can play for India A and then Team India.

 

It is inevitable that a few of such express pacers will be sprayguns.  But we should not be deterred by that. Which is why it is important to make a big pool of such fast bowlers and then pick the best.

 

.... 21 year old Umran Malik should be the first in this express bowling pool. Looks very promising.

 

.... Navdeep Saini should be monitored and brought back to full fitness.

 

.... @rkt.india has posted videos of Nikhil Kohli from Uttarakhand. He looks very quick.

 

....  @Mosher , @Suhaan and @nsareen  who follow Indian domestic cricket fast bowlers very closely, may suggest more names too.

 

....  Irfan Pathan did a fantastic job of fine tuning the action of express pacer Umran Malik ... and can be given charge of such express quicks. 

 

Time to act is now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

exactly..i agree to this.

Pacers who do not average 140 K should not be playing for India. it is a waste of time and efforts of fast bowling coach like bharat arun or mhambrey to coach a 135K pacer to bowl well.

 

In india trundlers and medium fast bowlers are in plenty. so many that it is impossible to select who is good and who is not good.

 

a genuine fast bowler who can bowl 145K to 150 K can also bowl at 121K but a trundler cannot ball at 145K, so it makes sense to train a genuine fast bowler. 

i would expect dravid to dum the trundlers and get fast bowlers to represent India in all the three formats. i am not saying that BOOM and shammi should play t20 ...they should retire from t20.

we should have 8 to 10 genuine fast bowlers and 2 to 3 SWING GURU's.

dont get excited about harshal patel type of bowlers , they get wickets only bcos batsman try to attack him big time..its not that he gets wickets, batsman gift wickets to him as he is over attacked.