UNBIASED OPINION: India's 2001 victory against Aus or 2005 England Ashes victory - Which was the greater series and which home side deserves more credit ?

[Norman]

Both are overrated but I'd pick 2005.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, kohli said:

2001 series won by individual  performance but 2005 series won by team. Ind beat red hot Aussie but eng beat ageing & declining Aussie.

 

Mcgrath tripping over the ball was the reason why they won.  Also Australia was within whisker of winning the 2nd test.   With 4 runs to win Harmison bowled a rank full toss they didn't put away. 

 Then a bouncer. Kaspa could have avoided it so many different ways. Instead he put himself in the line of the ball and nicking it. It was just the destiny.

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

12 minutes ago, kohli said:

2001 series won by individual  performance but 2005 series won by team. Ind beat red hot Aussie but eng beat ageing & declining Aussie.

 

That is an ill informed opinion. 

 

The Aussie team that lost the 2005 Ashes was not "aging and declining".

 

They had just beaten us in India 2-1,  6 months before that Ashes.

 

 

For 2 Years after that Ashes 2005 series loss, they produced yet another 15 match winning streak. 

 

So much for a "declining" team.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmax1=10+Jan+2008;spanmin1=01+Jan+2006;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

 

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View overall figures [change view]

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2006 and 10 Jan 2008 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Totals in terms of batting team http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Ordered by matches won (descending)

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	Draw	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
Australia	2006-2008	15	15	0	0	0	-	52.05	3.73	27	602	244	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
South Africa	2006-2008	22	11	9	0	2	1.222	33.48	3.22	41	556	84	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Sri Lanka	2006-2007	19	10	5	0	4	2.000	38.27	3.36	32	756	73	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
England	2006-2007	25	8	9	0	8	0.888	34.83	3.26	47	570	81	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
India	2006-2008	23	6	6	0	11	1.000	38.57	3.40	43	664	100	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Pakistan	2006-2007	20	5	7	0	8	0.714	38.03	3.41	38	679	119	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
New Zealand	2006-2008	11	4	5	0	2	0.800	26.03	3.42	20	593	118	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
West Indies	2006-2008	17	1	10	0	6	0.100	29.16	3.19	32	591	103	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Bangladesh	2006-2008	10	0	9	0	1	0.000	21.48	3.27	20	427	62	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by rangeelaraja

[sage]

2001 had the best test 2005 had the more enjoyable story

[nikrulz]

2001 was beating THE Invincibles. Greatest Australian team ever.

 

2005 did more for the game of Cricket. I remember Alex Ferguson, Rafa benitez and other famous Football coaches, Celebrities etc discussing the series with vivid interest. This was perhaps the first time Cricket as a sport gained so much International Fame. It was everywhere...

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by nikrulz

[goose]

i don't know about you, but when i watch cricket, i don't look up statsguru before i decide how much i have enjoyed it, or how impressive a performance is. i don't check what the side did six months ago. i don't wait 6 months to see how the teams do thereafter. your lived experience of that game embodies everything you have seen up to that point and most on this board watch a lot of cricket.

[rangeelaraja]

2 minutes ago, goose said:

i don't know about you, but when i watch cricket, i don't look up statsguru before i decide how much i have enjoyed it, or how impressive a performance is. i don't check what the side did six months ago. i don't wait 6 months to see how the teams do thereafter. your lived experience of that game embodies everything you have seen up to that point and most on this board watch a lot of cricket.

 

 

Huh ???

 

I never brought up stats until some ill formed posts that indicated that the Aussie team that lost the 2005 Ashes was "declining".  They were NOT, a declining team cannot beat India in India like they did 6 months before that Ashes.  Not sure why that was so difficult to understand.

 

Few cricket lovers will dispute that the 2005 Ashes series was more fun to watch and a greater collective team effort

 

 

[goose]

7 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

Huh ???

 

I never brought up stats until some ill formed posts that indicated that the Aussie team that lost the 2005 Ashes was "declining".  They were NOT, a declining team cannot beat India in India like they did 6 months before that Ashes.  Not sure why that was so difficult to understand.

 

Few cricket lovers will dispute that the 2005 Ashes series was more fun to watch and a greater collective team effort

 

 

 

i think all you can ask is for people to give their opinion. nobody is going to change their mind about the emotions felt in 2001 and 2005, they cannot be undone.

 

[cricketfan28]

should be ashes as Australia take that more seriously. With the Indian series they got outdone by mystery spinner.

[cricketfan28]

Also they won the ODI series and they have figured out bhajan by then.

[kohli]

3 minutes ago, cricketfan28 said:

Also they won the ODI series and they have figured out bhajan by then.

They also won 2005 odi series in eng.

[kohli]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

That is an ill informed opinion. 

 

The Aussie team that lost the 2005 Ashes was not "aging and declining".

 

They had just beaten us in India 2-1,  6 months before that Ashes.

 

 

For 2 Years after that Ashes 2005 series loss, they produced yet another 15 match winning streak. 

 

So much for a "declining" team.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmax1=10+Jan+2008;spanmin1=01+Jan+2006;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

 

      - other -      Women's Tests      Women's ODIs      Women's T20Is      Youth Tests      Youth ODIs      Youth T20Is     

Batting | Bowling | Fielding | All-round | Partnership | Team | Umpire and referee | Aggregate/overall

View overall figures [change view]

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2006 and 10 Jan 2008 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Totals in terms of batting team http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Ordered by matches won (descending)

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	Draw	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
Australia	2006-2008	15	15	0	0	0	-	52.05	3.73	27	602	244	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
South Africa	2006-2008	22	11	9	0	2	1.222	33.48	3.22	41	556	84	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Sri Lanka	2006-2007	19	10	5	0	4	2.000	38.27	3.36	32	756	73	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
England	2006-2007	25	8	9	0	8	0.888	34.83	3.26	47	570	81	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
India	2006-2008	23	6	6	0	11	1.000	38.57	3.40	43	664	100	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Pakistan	2006-2007	20	5	7	0	8	0.714	38.03	3.41	38	679	119	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
New Zealand	2006-2008	11	4	5	0	2	0.800	26.03	3.42	20	593	118	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
West Indies	2006-2008	17	1	10	0	6	0.100	29.16	3.19	32	591	103	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Bangladesh	2006-2008	10	0	9	0	1	0.000	21.48	3.27	20	427	62	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

After 2005 ashes lose they dropped gillespie & kasprowiz, before ashes both of them are regular in team. They also dropped katich.after ashes hussey & Stuart Clark Made there test debut.so it was not a same ashes team who won 16 consecutive test after ashes lose.

[putrevus]

2005 Ashes might be the best series of all time.2001 series was one man show in Bhajji nothing special otherwise from Indian bowling.

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

2005 Ashes might be the best series of all time.2001 series was one man show in Bhajji nothing special otherwise from Indian bowling.

 

flat out wrong. Everybody contributed at some point. Even Sachin picked up three crucial wickets on day 5. Not to mention 4th innings chase at Chennai was as nerve wracking it was. I still remember how Mcgrath was shining the ball vigorously for eternity so that he could  swing the ball back in. He bowled some absolute peaches to us with older ball. Showed his versatility.  Thankfully Saba Karim saw us through. If Mcgrath had played the tests that England won there was no way England was going to win those tests. They won by what? 2 runs.

[goose]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

flat out wrong. Everybody contributed at some point. Even Sachin picked up three crucial wickets on day 5. Not to mention 4th innings chase at Chennai was as nerve wracking it was. I still remember how Mcgrath was shining the ball vigorously for eternity so that he could  swing the ball back in. He bowled some absolute peaches to us with older ball. Showed his versatility.  Thankfully Saba Karim saw us through. If Mcgrath had played the tests that England won there was no way England was going to win those tests. They won by what? 2 runs.

 

you mean sameer dighe

[rangeelaraja]

https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1254294/ind-v-aus---vvs-laxman-and-fans-look-back-at-the-2001-chennai-test

 

 

Quote

samir Dighe has several memories of his Test debut:

- Gillespie bowling so fast that it was hard to get his bat up in time
- Waiting for his turn to bat on the final day and assuring Ganguly: "This match is ours"
- Tendulkar advising him to wear an elbow guard
- A missile from Gillespie thudding into the very same elbow guard and deflecting to fine leg
- Warne getting him out lbw in the first innings

"And on the final day, there was a lot of rough on the good-length area and I didn't want to face Warne on that pitch. So when Zaheer came in, I said to him: 'Colin Miller is the most dangerous bowler.' And I made sure I said it loud enough for Steve Waugh to hear it, so that he would keep Miller on and not bring back Warne."

 

 

If this is not some fiction by Sameer Dighe, then it is brilliant mind games. I do remember not able to understand why they kept bowling Miller at the end of our chase.

 

He looked the most harmless.  So Dighe did probably trick Steve Waugh.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by rangeelaraja

[R!TTER]

20 minutes ago, goose said:

you mean sameer dighe

You mean Harbahajan? He hit the winning runs!

[vvvslaxman]

20 minutes ago, goose said:

 

you mean sameer dighe

yes correct. For some reason i was thinking of his name.

[putrevus]

23 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

flat out wrong. Everybody contributed at some point. Even Sachin picked up three crucial wickets on day 5. Not to mention 4th innings chase at Chennai was as nerve wracking it was. I still remember how Mcgrath was shining the ball vigorously for eternity so that he could  swing the ball back in. He bowled some absolute peaches to us with older ball. Showed his versatility.  Thankfully Saba Karim saw us through. If Mcgrath had played the tests that England won there was no way England was going to win those tests. They won by what? 2 runs.

Everyone who? Bhajji picked up 32 wickets, who was next best Indian spinner Sachin and he took 3 or 4 wickets. That 4th innings chase in Chennai showed greatness of Australian team and fragility of Indian team. It just showed how lucky India was to win that series and It had once in life time performance from Laxman and Bhajji which they never repeated again in their careers.

 

Mcgrath did return to play in that 2005 series. That also showed the fighting spirit of Aussies.

[vvvslaxman]

 

I thought we were done once Laxman got out a stunning catch by Mark waugh and Bahutule got out immediately in the same over to Miller. Laxman was stunned and stood there in shock for a while. INdia was cruising. Even after Sachin got out to a brute of a delivery from Gillespie India was coasting. 38 needed with 7 wickets in hand. Horrendous shot by Ganguly led to a collapse. Warne was bowling half trackers. Laxman blasted him all over.  There was one more guy who was the main reason for Australia coming back That was Mark Waugh. 4 stunning catches. Having such a fielder is gold.