Bumrah vs. Cummins in Tests

[Honeybadger]

2 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

The 2020 Indian batting lineup was very much weaker. 2018 had prime kohli and pujara. He averaged 20 bowling to the weaker lineup and 28 to the stronger (inverse of your bumrah logic).

 

30 in 2 matches is not respectable when you get outbowled by umesh yadav in fast bouncy conditions. 
 

bumrah has played on those pancakes (mcg 2018, oval 2021 etc). He just made them not look like pancakes. 
 

ind made 466 at the oval in the 3rd innings against Anderson Robinson woakes with guys like bumrah and umesh making merry with the bat. England were 100 for no loss. It was bumrah who broke that game with his reverse swinging spell (something even Australians did in Karachi in the 1st innings). Just because you are able to bowl on a flat pancake and make it not look like one doesn’t mean it isn’t one.

 

mcg 2018 was a low slow pitch where discourse on first 2 days was how bad the pitch was. Bumrah changes that on the 3rd day.

False equivalence.

2020 Indian lineup was not weak by any means. Gill was an upgrade. Pant was more mature. Pujara always does well in Australia.

2018 Australia wasva lineup of nobodies really.

 

See this is the problem. Cummins averaging 30 in India against a great batting lineup in such conditions is not respectable?

My simple question is what has Bumrah done in India against a good team of the calliber of India or Australia? 

The only time he has played a good team in these tough conditions is vs england in Chennai when a renowned cloud bully outbowled him whilst being 40 years of age.

 

 

[Honeybadger]

3 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Did you even watch that match?

 

a flatness of a pitch is an absolute. It isn’t determined by the wickets taken or runs scored. You can score lots of runs on a green wicket and collapse on a flat pitch too.

 

your assumption of mcg 2018 not being flat is by using cummins 2nd innings bowling performance.

 

It was a flat pitch. cummins took all those wickets cause india had a 300 runs lead and just wanted to accelerate. He literally took like 3 wickets caught at leg gully when india was trying to accelerate. These shots never would have been played without the 300 run lead.

 

the mcg wicket was a pure flattie bad as the 2017 one.

 

same with oval 2021 post the first 2 days.
 

they were as bad as this Karachi pitch (where it was shown by aus in their first innings).

Meh. I did watch the game alright.

If you really think mcg was anywhere remotely as lifeless as Karachi then it's a yawn from my side. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Honeybadger

[deathmonger]

7 minutes ago, Honeybadger said:

False equivalence.

2020 Indian lineup was not weak by any means. Gill was an upgrade. Pant was more mature. Pujara always does well in Australia.

2018 Australia wasva lineup of nobodies really.

 

See this is the problem. Cummins averaging 30 in India against a great batting lineup in such conditions is not respectable?

My simple question is what has Bumrah done in India against a good team of the calliber of India or Australia? 

The only time he has played a good team in these tough conditions is vs england in Chennai when a renowned cloud bully outbowled him whilst being 40 years of age.

 

 

Outbowled him in the 4th innings when it reverses vs when bumrah bowled in the first? That’s a yawn from my side.

 

2020 india lineup was weaker. Gill literally debuted that series and he had as good a series as mayank last time. Pujara was not the 2018 pujara. And most importantly in 2018 india had the worlds no 1 batsman.

[deathmonger]

7 minutes ago, Honeybadger said:

Meh. I did watch the game alright.

If you really think mcg was anywhere remotely as lifeless as Karachi then it's a yawn from my side. 

Yawn away. Doesn’t change facts.

 

bumrah is the best fast bowler playing now and the records speak for themselves. 

[Vijy]

Cummins has been given utter roads (as Lillee got in '80-'81), but has done little of note in SC overall. Hoping to see him do better in India soon

[Jay]

Cummins may or may not be better than bumrah. 

But these 2 are the best in the world by far along with rabada being 3rd. 

 

Weak batters of india can make bowlers look better than they are. Like last SA series. Jansen and rbaada were made to look far better than they are due to poor batsmen like current kohli washed up purane. SA batsmen had better skills in those conditions. So bumrha vagrant close to rbada in that series shows how good he is. Should I say without sandpaper too? Without an extra bowler support in game 2. And we had umesh in there ffs when it should have been prasidh. 

 

Anyway like I said bumrah may or may not be better but he is the goat Asian pace bowler easily. Even better than wasim bhaiyaa. 

[Stan AF]

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/icc-test-rankings-india-pacer-jasprit-bumrah-up-to-no-4-sri-lanka-batter-dimuth-karunaratne-at-career-best-no-5-1305830

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, Stan AF said:

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/icc-test-rankings-india-pacer-jasprit-bumrah-up-to-no-4-sri-lanka-batter-dimuth-karunaratne-at-career-best-no-5-1305830

Expect ashwin or bumrah to be no 1 this time next year

[kohli]

Cummins avg in asia 

india-30

pak-  47

bang-29

Even he was average in Bangladesh.

[Trichromatic]

On 3/17/2022 at 2:24 PM, kohli said:

Cummins avg in asia 

india-30

pak-  47

bang-29

Even he was average in Bangladesh.

 

Takes a 5-fer on slow low bounce track which isn't offering much.

[putrevus]

Again Cummins proving his worth on dead pitch, what a bowler. I would take this guy over Bumrah in any format anywhere , 

Edited March 23, 2022 by putrevus

[Nikola]

18 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Again Cummins proving his worth on dead pitch, what a bowler. I would take this guy over Bumrah in any format anywhere , 

 

Any format? he is pretty good in tests but goes missing at times as we saw in first two tests. Bumrah has yorker, slower balls which cummins doesn't have. Also that hard ball which can be wicket taking in any conditions.

[putrevus]

21 minutes ago, Nikola said:

 

Any format? he is pretty good in tests but goes missing at times as we saw in first two tests. Bumrah has yorker, slower balls which cummins doesn't have. Also that hard ball which can be wicket taking in any conditions.

Yes, I like him far better than Bumrah.Aussies don't focuss much on shorter formats .IMO Bumrah completely missed the chance to prove his greatness in SA.Even Bangladesh's bowlers are dominating them.

 

It is not like Bumrah did anything great in shorter formats.He has comeup short everytime in big matches in shorter formats.Bumrah is a certified choker in shorter formats. Kohli atleast has some t20 worldcups where he did not choke.This guy has choked in  every big match.

Edited March 23, 2022 by putrevus

[Jay]

yes ofcourse moron kohli fans would berate a world class bowler like bumrah. 

you cant go wrong with either. both are greats. bumrah at his best is just better though. 

 

 

[Jay]

43 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Takes a 5-fer on slow low bounce track which isn't offering much.

what not offering ? there was clearly reverse swing there.

[Majestic]

Top class bowling from Cummins. This is the difference between Cummins and say, Ashwin.

 

Ashwin is playing for years now and he doesn't have a fi-fer overseas. Cummins took a few matches in subcontinent but he did it when the fast bowlers were in the game. That is a captain's spell. Ashwin can't be ATG unless he produces such a spell vs SENA team.

 

 

 

[Trichromatic]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

what not offering ? there was clearly reverse swing there.

 

Reverse swing isn't generated from pitch.

[Trichromatic]

13 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Top class bowling from Cummins. This is the difference between Cummins and say, Ashwin.

 

Ashwin is playing for years now and he doesn't have a fi-fer overseas. Cummins took a few matches in subcontinent but he did it when the fast bowlers were in the game. That is a captain's spell. Ashwin can't be ATG unless he produces such a spell vs SENA team.

 

 

 

 

Aus spinners took 1 wicket in this match.

 

Can we expect our pacers to take 1 wicket in SENA?

 

Ashwin took 4-55 at Adelaide in 2020 dismissing Aus for 191 and giving India a lead of 53 runs. Ended with match figures of 5-71 and was best Indian bowler in that match.

 

2018 Birmingham test - 7 wickets for 111 runs and was best bowler in the match.

 

[Jay]

9 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Reverse swing isn't generated from pitch.

i never said it did. In sub contient pitches, if you bowl fuller at pace above 138 you are always in the game especially when the ball is older and cuffed on one side. on pattas like this.

[Jay]

10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Aus spinners took 1 wicket in this match.

 

Can we expect our pacers to take 1 wicket in SENA?

 

Ashwin took 4-55 at Adelaide in 2020 dismissing Aus for 191 and giving India a lead of 53 runs. Ended with match figures of 5-71 and was best Indian bowler in that match.

 

2018 Birmingham test - 7 wickets for 111 runs and was best bowler in the match.

 

agreed. only 2 places ash fared very poorly. s.africa due to extremely tampered bouncy pitches. 

n.z. even in kiwi land he averages 32 or some low 30s. not too bad.