India's chasing era gone for good?

[vvvslaxman]

From 2005 to 2018 India had the second best chasing record behind Australia. We see a slight dip. We behind teams like NZ/SA. Australia probably sees a dip because they send B teams. 

 

From 2005-2018

 

 

From 2019-2022

 

 

It somewhat coincides with Kohli's form. Once his form was gone we started noticing a dip. Also his old pals Dhoni/Raina/Yuvi also exited.

 

 

[Majestic]

2005-18?? You literally highlighted Dhoni's whole career there except first and last year.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Majestic said:

2005-18?? You literally highlighted Dhoni's whole career there except first and last year.

 

Yes. That is when we started winning matches chasing. Because there was always Sachin who woul dmake bucket load of runs upfront only to see lower order bungling up.

[vvvslaxman]

Dhoni/Yuvraj/Kohli biggest chasing players ODI history has ever seen. We all had in the same side. Infact Raina was also good while chasing.

[vvvslaxman]

Since 2019 Indian batsmen while chasing. Pant has the same average as  Bumrah while chasing. Less than most of the batsmen.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

KL Rahul is another mental midget while chasing. 33 for a top order is appalling. Strike rate is 84

[vvvslaxman]

Rayudu's strike rate straight from the 1970s lol

[ShoonyaSifar]

It's not just about chasing alone. Our ODI record batting 1st hasn't been too great either, especially after the WC. But that heavy order has remained in tact, stats padding their way to glory.

 

Chasing stats look even worse because the old washed up toothless bowling unit in general keeps conceding 25-30 runs extra and then the stats padders take over.

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

It's not just about chasing alone. Our ODI record batting 1st hasn't been too great either, especially after the WC. But that heavy order has remained in tact, stats padding their way to glory.

 

Chasing stats look even worse because the old washed up toothless bowling unit in general keeps conceding 25-30 runs extra and then the stats padders take over.

 

 

Chasing is still harder for most teams. Our team will look far worse while chasing once rohit/kohli leave. We played Shaw and Agarwal in NZ. They couldn't chase 273 on a tiny auckland ground. Today chase was very much possible even after Dhawan/Kohli dismissal.  Once Kohli/Rohit leave there won't be any platform. 

 

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Chasing is still harder for most teams. Our team will look far worse while chasing once rohit/kohli leave. We played Shaw and Agarwal in NZ. They couldn't chase 273 on a tiny auckland ground. Today chase was very much possible even after Dhawan/Kohli dismissal.  Once Kohli/Rohit leave there won't be any platform. 

 

Kohli/Rohit leaving with no platform will be better as it will give middle order more batting in the middle, more situations even while batting first. Middle order batsman are no unsettled, being played musical chairs. They don't know what to do.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, rkt.india said:

Kohli/Rohit leaving with no platform will be better as it will give middle order more batting in the middle, more situations even while batting first. Middle order batsman are no unsettled, being played musical chairs. They don't know what to do.

 

So 15/3 is better than 100/3? Today they made it impossible? No. Most of the time we mucked up simple situations. While it is true top heavy was an issue. We had Ganguly/Tendulkar/Sehwag/Gambhir.  But we also had Yuvraj/Dhoni/Raina.  Unsettled or not good enough. That is the question.  More i see how they mess up simple situations, more i am skeptical about the theory of top order undermining middle order. It is true to some extent. But that is not the only reason.

[ComfortFood]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Kohli/Rohit leaving with no platform will be better as it will give middle order more batting in the middle, more situations even while batting first. Middle order batsman are no unsettled, being played musical chairs. They don't know what to do.

International cricket is not the place where you “learn” things. top order cant get out thinking oh lets get out and give sm practic to middle order. No team does that. You gotta swim when you are put in the sea. Middle order players get enough “pressure situations” playing IPL. Isn’t that the think tank here says? iPL is better than international cricket standard wise??? So these players get enuf explosure there cant make the excuse of “game time jn the middle”

 

we had even more top heavy battinng with sachin sehwag etc earlier. Didn’t stop the likes of Yuvi dhoni raina from being match winners 

Edited January 19, 2022 by ComfortFood

[vvvslaxman]

tst

Edited January 19, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[vvvslaxman]

Checking some of the failures while chasing, i can see KL Rahul being one of the major failure. More so than Pant.  A meaningful contribution from him would have helped India win more matches.  This choker guy has to pull up his socks. This is supposed to his peak. Can't believe i rate him way above Kohli at one point.  Kohli's peak >>>>>> KL Rahul's peak.

[ThirtyD.]

Bound to happen if you're not going to fix your middle order. Top 3 that we've been carrying score in meaningless ODI's and fail to show up during clutch games. 

 

For a country spoiled with choices, we are very hesitant in making changes. It is concerning to see that the problem that plagued our 2019 WC campaign is yet to be discussed, let alone addressed. Our middle order in tests have been talked about for a while now, however our situation is bleak across all formats.

[ShoonyaSifar]

13 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Chasing is still harder for most teams. Our team will look far worse while chasing once rohit/kohli leave. We played Shaw and Agarwal in NZ. They couldn't chase 273 on a tiny auckland ground. Today chase was very much possible even after Dhawan/Kohli dismissal.  Once Kohli/Rohit leave there won't be any platform. 

 

So your benchmark is one match where these guys were playing their 3rd or 4th match? 

 

On today, after taking the RRR to 7 in pursuit of personal milestones, one of the stats padders needed to bat longer like SA did. Can't leave a thin batting line up to chase 7 too after eating up the new ball without much intent. That has been the story of our chasing failures since 2019.

 

These stats padders should vacate their loved batting positions and let youngsters bat at the top.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, ThirtyD. said:

Bound to happen if you're not going to fix your middle order. Top 3 that we've been carrying score in meaningless ODI's and fail to show up during clutch games. 

 

For a country spoiled with choices, we are very hesitant in making changes. It is concerning to see that the problem that plagued our 2019 WC campaign is yet to be discussed, let alone addressed. Our middle order in tests have been talked about for a while now, however our situation is bleak across all formats.

 

 

Our MO/Lower order suck in all format. Not just ODI. Gross imbalance.  

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, ShoonyaSifar said:

So your benchmark is one match where these guys were playing their 3rd or 4th match? 

 

On today, after taking the RRR to 7 in pursuit of personal milestones, one of the stats padders needed to bat longer like SA did. Can't leave a thin batting line up to chase 7 too after eating up the new ball without much intent. That has been the story of our chasing failures since 2019.

 

These stats padders should vacate their loved batting positions and let youngsters bat at the top.

 

I remember India was requiring some 90 runs or some in less than 10 overs when Uthappa walked in. We ended up winning.  Middle order cannot expect asking rate of 5 to chase. SA was like 68/3 in 17 overs. From that point they went 7 an over till the end. India needed 6.44 with 8 wickets in hand for 24 overs. It was fairly possible as you could see in the end Thakur was able to pull off big overs. You just have to stay at the wicket.

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

17 minutes ago, ComfortFood said:

International cricket is not the place where you “learn” things. top order cant get out thinking oh lets get out and give sm practic to middle order. No team does that. You gotta swim when you are put in the sea. Middle order players get enough “pressure situations” playing IPL. Isn’t that the think tank here says? iPL is better than international cricket standard wise??? So these players get enuf explosure there cant make the excuse of “game time jn the middle”

 

we had even more top heavy battinng with sachin sehwag etc earlier. Didn’t stop the likes of Yuvi dhoni raina from being match winners 

Yuvi Dhoni Raina in their initial years needed a certain Dravid around them. Plus they did not start winning matches in chases after playing 15-20 games.  Neither they had Ashwin batting at 7 in their middle order. Replace Kaif with Bhajji in that NatWest final and try imagining Yuvi winning that final on his own.

 

Today's middle order had Pant (19th ODI), Iyer (22nd ODIs), Venky on debut. And then Ashwin at 7. Venky Iyer should have opened, S.Iyer at 3, Kohli at 4 and Rahul at 5. But then stats padding is more important than team interest

[ShoonyaSifar]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I remember India was requiring some 90 runs or some in less than 10 overs when Uthappa walked in. We ended up winning.  Middle order cannot expect asking rate of 5 to chase. SA was like 68/3 in 17 overs. From that point they went 7 an over till the end. India needed 6.44 with 8 wickets in hand for 24 overs. It was fairly possible as you could see in the end Thakur was able to pull off big overs. You just have to stay at the wicket.

 

Again a random match. Same Uthappa sucked balls in multiple other chase situations.

 

From talking about chases, now you have shifted goalposts to how SA set a total despite losing early wickets! Today was a dry wicket, was likely to get slower, yet the stat padders kept looking for personal milestones against the relatively new ball.