Rahul Dravid rues Hardik Pandya and Ravindra Jadeja absence from ODI side

[anish2tweet]

If everyone is willing to open, who will bat in middle order?

Yes there are a lot of options for opening spot. He may miss out as an opener to Shaw/Ruturaj/Kishan but there is no place in the middle order or lower middle order either. Jadeja and Deepak Chahar would take those spots.

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[anish2tweet]

Indian team will play this team next series :-
 
Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Rahul
Pant(wkt)
W Sundar
Jadeja
Deepak( trundler 1)
Harshal( trunder 2)
Yuzi
Siraj

Prasidh Krishna instead of Harshal. I thought SKY would be retained but Sundar brings 6th bowling option. Also, no pinchhitters in the first 20 overs?

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[zen]

50 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Not everyone is able to be objective.  I mean, just take a look in the mirror and see how one-eyed you get when it comes to Pandya!  

I support him because he is not like a stereotype Indian cricketer (something non Indian, and without a phatu and calculating mindset, in how he approaches sports)  … Additionally, I like the story of a person from a humble background making it big 

 

I support Pant too (another unconventional “brave” cricketer)   

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

I really struggle to understand what drives such a visceral dislike for a rarity of a player like Pandya.  I mean, the guy is a bonafide success story as an ODI bat, and when fit, bowls quality useful overs.  Even Shane Watson struggled with chronic injury problems.  It just goes with the territory when you bowl pace, especially for a guy like Pandya who didn't really grow up bowling much.  

 

 Only reason he should even be considered is because he can bowl. If he can't bowl you could try  actual batsman. Thakur and Chahar are more lkely to complete the bowling quota of 10 overs. Jadeja is another all rounder. That is like 3 we have. 2 specailist bowlers. 1 spinner/ 1 is Bumrah. Then 1 keeper. So we have 5 spots left. We cannot allocate that to someone who primarily plays cameos.  In the last 5 years guys like Butler, Maxewll, Miller all have better average batting at 6 or 7. They have 100s. He is probably comparable with Moeen Ali/ Jimmy Neesham. Both of them will bowl full quota of overs.   So he is not "rare".  He probably is rare compared to some of the other guyes he competes with.  He won't find a place in most of ther international side. Even Mumbai Indians has washed their hands off of him. 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

I think thats way OTT and unduly harsh.

 

When it comes to Pandya, I think a lot of folks just pigeonholed him as a bowling allrounder.  From that static perspective, he offers no value unless he bowls.  In reality Pandya was always a batsman who bowled a bit.  And his ODI batting performance record is arguably good enough to deserve a spot in the team even if he stops bowling completely.  But if you are stuck in that mindset, then that's that. Add to that, certain pre-conceived notions about 'behavior', 'tattoos', certain regional biases etc also play a role.  

 

Not everyone is able to be objective.  I mean, just take a look in the mirror and see how one-eyed you get when it comes to Pandya!  

 

A guy with zero ODI 100s deserves one of the  5 vacant specialist batsmen  spot left lol How is that objective.  Someone who stands deep in his crease, nlindly swings at every ball and unable to connect anything wide or anything at chest level is a rare player?  We saw how he completely missed the ball so many times in the world T20. i mean he couldn't even edge the ball.  Violent hitting of air like Afrid was all that we could see. He pretty much did the same in the IPL in most of the innings. He had his moments. Now time to move on. Venky Iyer deserves a run.

Edited January 25, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[sarcastic]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

A guy with zero ODI 100s deserves one of the  5 vacant specialist batsmen  spot left lol How is that objective.  Someone who stands deep in his crease, nlindly swings at every ball and unable to connect anything wide or anything at chest level is a rare player?  We saw how he completely missed the ball so many times in the world T20. i mean he couldn't even edge the ball.  Violent hitting of air like Afrid was all that we could see. He pretty much did the same in the IPL in most of the innings. He had his moments. Now time to move on. Venky Iyer deserves a run.

Pandya scored 90 and 92* in late 2020 in Austrlia (in Sydney and Canberra).
Enough for me to justify that he narrowly missed on an ODI ton. He is not far from scoring one.

 

Although I agree that he cannot be in the team as batsman alone, he can definitely be 6th bowling option and a very useful middle-order batsman.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, sarcastic said:

Pandya scored 90 and 92* in late 2020 in Austrlia (in Sydney and Canberra).
Enough for me to justify that he narrowly missed on an ODI ton. He is not far from scoring one.

 

Although I agree that he cannot be in the team as batsman alone, he can definitely be 6th bowling option and a very useful middle-order batsman.

 

Yes. He is not good enough to be a specialist batsman especially  with his new "crease bound" slogging strategy.  Sam Curran has made 95 batting at 8. I am sure they won't use that as a parameter to pick him as a specialist batsman.  Chahar/Thakur/Jaddu as a combo will give us 2 batsmen.  Two specialist bowler. 1 keeper. 5 solid top order. If India needs 6th bowler then venky iyer should be given enough chances.

[sandeep]

34 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

If India needs 6th bowler then venky iyer should be given enough chances.

[zen]

Btw, talking about stance, he developed it for T20 as he was getting less than 20 balls to play so needed to make the most of it … I guess many would be happy with a 25 off 20, but SDP is pushing himself to get to 35-40 

 

Every change he made is for the team not himself … He can easily play like a conventional batsman, picking up singles and an odd four, and maybe also remain not out to improve his average … SDP will not play such cricket 

[Vijy]

main issue with Pandu these last 1-2 yrs is fitness more than other matters. needs to prioritize that above all others.

[zen]

8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

main issue with Pandu these last 1-2 yrs is fitness more than other matters. needs to prioritize that above all others.

There is no issue with “fitness” apart from back injury, which can be career threatening for many players (many fast bowlers have suffered from that. Lillee was impacted by it as well being both out of cricket and losing pace - Link), impacting his bowling (which is like a cheery on the cake as he offers great value in other dimensions) … Among the most talented batsmen, esp. in the lower middle order (#6-7), in the country already 

 

Players coming back from such injuries need support and encouragement! To comeback from such an injury is a praise worthy

Edited January 26, 2022 by zen

[Vijy]

Just now, zen said:

There is no issue with “fitness” apart from back injury, which can be career threatening for many players (many fast bowlers suffer from that. Lillee was impacted by it as well being both out of cricket and losing pace), impacting his bowling (which is only like a cheery on the cake as he also offers great value in other dimensions) … Among the most talented batsmen, esp. in the lower middle order (#6-7), in the country already 

back injury is a part of fitness. People who have had back injuries in many sports have never recovered and remained a shadow of their former shelves. presumably that's not what you/I/anyone wants for him.

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

back injury is a part of fitness. People who have had back injuries in many sports have never recovered and remained a shadow of their former shelves. presumably that's not what you/I/anyone wants for him.

Injuries are not part of fitness in general speak. Unfit are players like Rohit … SDP is among the fittest cricketers 
 

It is praise worthy that he has comeback from such an injury … Players going through such a phase need support and encouragement

 

[raki05]

Phattu cricketers like pandu deserved where they are out of team. A sloth thakur or even chahar if given so many opportunities or any new bits and pieces alrounder for that matter will have more match winning performances.Thakur in his limited opportunities  has played so many blinders in test with both bat and ball was an important cog  in our historic Australian win. Once Pandya start playing as an alrounder and prove his worth in domestic for a season atleast should be considered for international selection.

[Majestic]

5 hours ago, anish2tweet said:

Prasidh Krishna instead of Harshal. I thought SKY would be retained but Sundar brings 6th bowling option. Also, no pinchhitters in the first 20 overs?

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You can expect this team only from management, they have love for trundlers.

[sandeep]

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

A guy with zero ODI 100s deserves one of the  5 vacant specialist batsmen  spot left lol How is that objective. 

Because I don't consider "ODI 100s" to be the benchmark.  I want unselfish guys who can attack and score at a high SR easily, in the middle order.  I don't know Pandya's stats off the top of my head, but his ODI SR is world class, and his ODI average isn't too bad either.  Forget his average, he has put up match-deciding 40+ scores at least half a dozen times, some of those coming in proper crunch pressure situations.  

 

Sure he doesn't have 100s yet, because he's been languishing down the order at 6 or lower.  You rarely get to score "100s" batting that low.  And that fact that he has a good number of 70+ scores already, says a lot.  

 

Objectively speaking, ODI cricket as of today, especially in subcontinent conditions is about putting pressure with the bat.  And having a deep batting lineup that can keep batting at better than run-a-ball.  Having a top order that sets the tone for the innings momentum is way more important than having a top order with more "ODI 100s".  That's why a team with top order filled with guys like Alex Hales, Roy, Billings, etc wins more games than a team stacked with top order stat-greats such as Rohit, Dhawan and Virat.  

 

The metrics for selecting your #6 ODI batsman isn't how many "ODI 100s" a guy has scored.  But if I have to break that down to you, there's really no point to this 'debate'.  You believe what you want, I'm not bothered about 'convincing' you.

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

back injury is a part of fitness. People who have had back injuries in many sports have never recovered and remained a shadow of their former shelves. presumably that's not what you/I/anyone wants for him.

 

Back injuries are exceedingly common for bowlers who bowl 140+.  Its not as if it can be taken as an indicator of "fitness".  It comes with the territory.  Boomrah, Cummins, Stokes, Archer, Rabada - all of these guys have had back issues.  In Pandya's case - if you are aware of his domestic career - he used to be a part-time spinner, never bowled pace until very late teens or maybe even a bit older.  

 

Obviously his usefulness to the team becomes questionable if he's not able to bowl effectively.  But to imply that back injury is somehow a result of 'fitness issues' is simply inaccurate. 

[Pollack]

Pandya is unconventional.

Pandya breaks Indian batsmen stereotype.

Pandya is not selfish. He does everything for his country.

Pandya is exciting.

Pandya is fit.

Pandya has a sob story.

Pandya can bat.

Pandya can bowl.

Pandya can do. (We can't)

But the most important of all...

 

Pandya is a gujarati. That's all you need..... Waah Modiji wah!!! 

 

 

[Vijy]

37 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Back injuries are exceedingly common for bowlers who bowl 140+.  Its not as if it can be taken as an indicator of "fitness".  It comes with the territory.  Boomrah, Cummins, Stokes, Archer, Rabada - all of these guys have had back issues.  In Pandya's case - if you are aware of his domestic career - he used to be a part-time spinner, never bowled pace until very late teens or maybe even a bit older.  

 

Obviously his usefulness to the team becomes questionable if he's not able to bowl effectively.  But to imply that back injury is somehow a result of 'fitness issues' is simply inaccurate. 

I guess it depends on what one refers to as fitness. although a lot of fast bowlers have had back injuries, it isn't all of them. and it is precisely the fact that he took up bowling rather late, which is concerning for his long-term future as an all-rounder because this is something he's had to acquire and learn rather late. he may need to decide whether he becomes a batter who bowls on occasion to maximize his career and his talent.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Vijy

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Pandya is unconventional.

Pandya breaks Indian batsmen stereotype.

Pandya is not selfish. He does everything for his country.

Pandya is exciting.

Pandya is fit.

Pandya has a sob story.

Pandya can bat.

Pandya can bowl.

Pandya can do. (We can't)

But the most important of all...

 

Pandya is a gujarati. That's all you need..... Waah Modiji wah!!! 

 

 

 

Can some stat hound post Pandya's ODI average and SR, and compare with other #6 batsmen?