Team Ind could become the Trundler Army

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Prasidh was bowling 130 k to 142 k/ 143 k range in the just concluded ODI series.  Average speed of around 134 k / 135 k.

 

Rohit called his spells in the 2nd ODI as the quickest he has seen in India for a long time (  not in terms of release speeds but the effect on batsmen )

 

The 126 k balls were slower cutters.

 

 

 

He has played just one T20I after he improved as a T20 pacer. And a grand total of 4 T20Is. How can he prove himself.

 

 

He has just been unearthed as a bowler and has to be developed. He is far from being a finished product.

 

 

That's true.  I am not asking for dumb fast bowlers.

 

 

 

No one is wanting every ball at a high clock speed in T20s. But having that ability, while bowling yorkers and stump directed balls, does help a lot.

 

 

Both Bumrah and Malinga are / were masters of the quickest yorker. Bumrah is a master of the indipper and the bouncer too.

 

 

 

How many non-trundlers, apart from Bumrah,  have played for India in white ball cricket in the last 5 years  ?

 

You cannot perform if you don't get yo play.

 

Bhuvi has a good ER, but his wicket taking ability is not good enough. And, in big matches, it is slmost impossible to win unless wickets ard picked up. 

 

Often, we get misguided by wins in low key bilateral LOI series. While others are busy building teams for ICC tournaments, we are busy winning the bilaterals.

 

IF you strictly go by strike rates Balaji, Dinda, Harshal Patel, RP singh, T natrajan Sid Kaul, Unadkat top the list. Bumrah takes a wicket every 3 overs.  Thakur is a better strike bowler in T20. 33 wickets in 25 innings.  IN the last 5 yeasr even in world cricket bar Ferguson who has less strike rate than Unadkat almost all of them are trundlers.  Nortje is ranked 63rd in terms of strike rate. 16 matches 18 wickets.

In T20 none of these theories work. We cannot categorically say bowling certain way will guarantee you success. This is applicable for most of the fast bowlers with an exception of guys like Bumrah, Malinga. 

Only spinners give us predictable results. Not pace bowlers. 

[Jay]

27 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

IF you strictly go by strike rates Balaji, Dinda, Harshal Patel, RP singh, T natrajan Sid Kaul, Unadkat top the list. Bumrah takes a wicket every 3 overs.  Thakur is a better strike bowler in T20. 33 wickets in 25 innings.  IN the last 5 yeasr even in world cricket bar Ferguson who has less strike rate than Unadkat almost all of them are trundlers.  Nortje is ranked 63rd in terms of strike rate. 16 matches 18 wickets.

In T20 none of these theories work. We cannot categorically say bowling certain way will guarantee you success. This is applicable for most of the fast bowlers with an exception of guys like Bumrah, Malinga. 

Only spinners give us predictable results. Not pace bowlers. 

Only chuckeen has been picking wickets cause the phucker chucks for those full length balls. Also chuckauf markalouwda number 1 chucks every ball. 

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

IF you strictly go by strike rates Balaji, Dinda, Harshal Patel, RP singh, T natrajan Sid Kaul, Unadkat top the list. Bumrah takes a wicket every 3 overs.  Thakur is a better strike bowler in T20. 33 wickets in 25 innings.  IN the last 5 yeasr even in world cricket bar Ferguson who has less strike rate than Unadkat almost all of them are trundlers.  Nortje is ranked 63rd in terms of strike rate. 16 matches 18 wickets.

In T20 none of these theories work. We cannot categorically say bowling certain way will guarantee you success. This is applicable for most of the fast bowlers with an exception of guys like Bumrah, Malinga. 

Only spinners give us predictable results. Not pace bowlers. 

 

Sample size has to be considered for stats to be meaningful.

 

Moreover, overall stats for T20Is are not that meaningful as most bilateral matches are used to build teams for the rather frequent T20 World Cups.

 

Also, it is not just about SR.  Wicket taking ability with acceptable ER has to considered. Wickets per match and ER combo.is a better parameter as some pacers may not be usable for all 4 overs and are effective only in some stages.

 

 

 

 

[SRT100]

10 hours ago, Vijy said:

Avesh dud trundle here, but I am not sure if he will always trundle (hopefully not). Can add Natarajan to the list as well.

 

trundler culture being fostered.

Its being breastfed by Boobi.

[SRT100]

42 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Genetics is probably not the reason ... because we often have the quickest pacers at U19 level.

 

Lack of passion about fast bowling is THE reason.

 

Countries which have traditionally produced fast bowlers get depressed when their pacers are bowling at lower speeds, even when they are winning. In the test series in SA this time, their commentators kept on lamenting that Rabada was bowling 130-135 and Olivier was bowling 125-130, even though they were bowling well.

 

Other countries don't produce that many 145 k+ pacers either. But the ones they produce are treated as priceless and given as many opportunities and facilities as possible. While we don't give them chances in state teams. 

 

We ridicule such pacers if they fail in a couple of matches and / or sideline them. 

 

And ultimately, cricket had been dominated by teams with good fast bowlers.

 

Fast bowling needs to be rewarded by the BCCI/TM/sponsors in order to entice young fast bowlers.

 

Given the way our bowlers breakdown there is little incentive to bowl quick, coupled with Indian pitches and it makes it a poor cricketing choice to make this your passion.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

 

I am no expert  ,this is just my view after watching a fair amount of cricket over the years.Agree that commentators of other countries do hype up their pacers ,whereas we like to hype up opposition pacers but dont think that explains everything.

 

We did produce likes of koti,mavi,tyagi ,akash ,hanga in the last few u19 tournaments ,they may not be famous names but have some raw talent and I did mention states like Raj and UP should be scouted for more talents but other states hardly produce any pacers of note and I am not even talking about ATGs but guys with a bit of zip and ability of bowl decently,of course there are odd guys from other states but they take a long time to produce .

 

Fast or Fast-medium pacers from different states in the last 30 years .... ( most of them are playing currently  ) ....

 

Karnataka ..  Srinath, Prasidh

Delhi .. Ishant, Sangwan, Nehra, , Wassan

Uttarakhand .. Saini

Jharkhand .. Aaron, Sushant, 

UP .. Shami ( originally ), Tyagi, Mavi, RP

Rajasthan .. Nagarkoti, Khaleel,

Gujarat .. Bumrah, Munaf, Rakesh Patel,

Hyderabad .. Siraj

Mumbai .. Ankola, Agarkar, Zaheer

J&K .. Umran 

Vidarbha .. Umesh

Kerala .. Thampi, Warrior, Sreesanth

MP .. Avesh, Kuldeep, Gaurav Yadav, 

Bengal .. Akashdeep, Sayan Ghosh

Maharashtra .. Hangargekar, 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

Stop distinguishing players with pace

Start distinguishing players with skill 

[Jay]

50 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Fast or Fast-medium pacers from different states in the last 30 years .... ( most of them are playing currently  ) ....

 

Karnataka ..  Srinath, Prasidh

Delhi .. Ishant, Sangwan, Nehra, , Wassan

Uttarakhand .. Saini

Jharkhand .. Aaron, Sushant, 

UP .. Shami ( originally ), Tyagi, Mavi, RP

Rajasthan .. Nagarkoti, Khaleel,

Gujarat .. Bumrah, Munaf, Rakesh Patel,

Hyderabad .. Siraj

Mumbai .. Ankola, Agarkar, Zaheer

J&K .. Umran 

Vidarbha .. Umesh

Kerala .. Thampi, Warrior, Sreesanth

MP .. Avesh, Kuldeep, Gaurav Yadav, 

Bengal .. Akashdeep, Sayan Ghosh

Maharashtra .. Hangargekar, 

 

Wow tamil nadu is *ing  hopeless in pace bowling. Beyond incorrigible. This is a state famous for jelli kattu and farming etc. Shocking. Probably Brahmin quota corruption system is ruining this state. 

[Swag]

Do we need to distinguish between formats here?

 

We had a 42 month reign at the top (Test rankings) & that shows we have/had the best bowlers in terms of skill for a long duration.  You cannot hide in Tests after bowling 2 very good overs, you need to be skilful, intelligent & consistent, pace is just a part of it.  I'd rather a McGrath than Shaun Tait in my team.  

 

Obviously if we find a good express bowler we should give them all the backing/resources to succeed.  

[Jay]

Like I said. I look for 3 things. Blind pace is for retards like our neighbours who only focus on the speed gun. 

 

1) intimidation factor - bouncer or yorker to hurt batsmen. Especially bouncer

2) ability to rush batsmen with good zip off the deck

3) ability to maintain a good length ball that can rise up sharply. Like a throat ball. Ofcourse height of batsmen plays a role in determining the exact length to bowl. But you get the idea. Has to be a stifling ball that allows no breathing space. 

 

Porks have no one that can do any of the above 3. Except bowl yorker like chuckeen and chuckauf. 

[Jay]

1 minute ago, Swag said:

Do we need to distinguish between formats here?

 

We had a 42 month reign at the top (Test rankings) & that shows we have/had the best bowlers in terms of skill for a long duration.  You cannot hide in Tests after bowling 2 very good overs, you need to be skilful, intelligent & consistent, pace is just a part of it.  I'd rather a McGrath than Shaun Tait in my team.  

 

Obviously if we find a good express bowler we should give them all the backing/resources to succeed.  

I want bowlers who can hurt batsmen and intimidate them. That's way better than pace express bowlers who are erratic and usually too dumb to bowl correct lengths. 

[R!TTER]

6 minutes ago, Swag said:

  I'd rather a McGrath than Shaun Tait in my team. 

Pidge was great in LO as well, just that he was exceptional in tests!

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

TN's fastest are Balaji ,a guy named Vignesh and natarajan ,they are by far  quicker than anyone else.

What's the point of MRF pace foundation there.  Rather set this up in Rajasthan/MP which are somehow producing quick pacers lately with not a lot of Investment.  Nearby states may also benefit 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

TN's fastest are Balaji ,a guy named Vignesh and natarajan ,they are by far  quicker than anyone else.

Lokesh raj is quick but no idea wtf he does now.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

What's the point of MRF pace foundation there.  Rather set this up in Rajasthan/MP which are somehow producing quick pacers lately with not a lot of Investment.  Nearby states may also benefit 

Yea hopeless in pace bowling. TN that is. Up, rajastjan, punjab, MP are better options. They have some genuine quicks up there. 

TN does produce some good spinners and batsmen from time to time. I think it's to do with pitches tbh. Chennai is too hot. Pitches are dry and dead usually. It's a nightmare for pace bowlers. 

[Jay]

32 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Punjab doesn't have much talent ,they too are a land of dibble dibble pacers.Only vrv and gony had some potential.

Punjabi is better for strength and wrestling based sports. Same with tamil nadu. Not so good with technical speed based sports. More static strength type people. 

 

Need wiry like figure or someone with a good biomechancially correct technique for pace bowling. Its a very technical aspect of cricket. 

 

Also passion. Got to want to bowl fast. When you have dreadful pitches in punjab and TN, it's hard to see pace come through. That's why UP rajasthan even Gujarat all have good fast pacers. Due to pitches.

[vvvslaxman]

41 minutes ago, Jay said:

Punjabi is better for strength and wrestling based sports. Same with tamil nadu. Not so good with technical speed based sports. More static strength type people. 

 

Need wiry like figure or someone with a good biomechancially correct technique for pace bowling. Its a very technical aspect of cricket. 

 

Also passion. Got to want to bowl fast. When you have dreadful pitches in punjab and TN, it's hard to see pace come through. That's why UP rajasthan even Gujarat all have good fast pacers. Due to pitches.

 

More importantly the chennai weather is brutal. You lose weight rapidly.  Balaji was good with wrist locking and everything. But he was very fragile.

Just look at the Srilankan fast bowlers like Lahiru Kumara. Built like tank. The oomph that he gets out of the surface with his shoulders is impressive. He probably can be expensive. But he is pretty sharp.  We had Bharat Arun built like tank. But he was trundling. T.A.Sekar was the only one who was known for pace back then. Probably by those day's standards.  Karnataka, Kerala weather is more forgiving. Andhra and TN are known for extreme high temperature.  On docile tracks in hot and humid conditions bowling fast is an unenviable job. So the culture was never there.  Even now Sandeep warrier is their fast bowler who is originally from Kerala. 

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, SRT100 said:

Its being breastfed by Boobi.

and by the loooong line of trundlers stretching to independence.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

Haryana is good at wrestling,Punjab is good at hockey.

 

Gujrat too doesn't have many pacers only hardik and bumrah,in the past there were munaf,irfan and Rakesh patel . Overall 5 ,not bad by our standards .

 

Irfan,Rakesh patel and hardik are of the Baroda Ranji team.Gujrat have bumrah and munaf,no one from saurashtra.

 

Munaf and Rakesh patel are from bharuch ,there are some siddis there as well,who are of African origin but they haven't produced any pacers.

Saurashtra has umesh no?

[Jay]

49 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

More importantly the chennai weather is brutal. You lose weight rapidly.  Balaji was good with wrist locking and everything. But he was very fragile.

Just look at the Srilankan fast bowlers like Lahiru Kumara. Built like tank. The oomph that he gets out of the surface with his shoulders is impressive. He probably can be expensive. But he is pretty sharp.  We had Bharat Arun built like tank. But he was trundling. T.A.Sekar was the only one who was known for pace back then. Probably by those day's standards.  Karnataka, Kerala weather is more forgiving. Andhra and TN are known for extreme high temperature.  On docile tracks in hot and humid conditions bowling fast is an unenviable job. So the culture was never there.  Even now Sandeep warrier is their fast bowler who is originally from Kerala. 

Totally makes sense. Have been to chennai. Can confirm. Only 2 types of weather there. Very hot or extremely boiling hot

.lmao. nothing in between. 

 

I believe the place where lahiru is from is quite moderate in terms of weather. He is indeed a tank. Actually chameera lahiru theeksana and the binaural are well well built like ox's. Look at thisaraperrera. He is built a brick **** house. Umesh and lahiru have the best builds for fast bowling. Total tanks.