Jump to content

"Slip Of Tongue": Former Pakistan Skipper Disagrees With Rohit Sharma Terming Ravichandran Ashwin An "All-Time Great"

sarcastic

By sarcastic
in Cricket Talk

Recommended Posts

putrevus Grand Master

putrevus

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I didn't call him a failure in any place on this thread. I did say that I believe his bowling style is not conducive. However, in my above post to Zen, I clarified it further and noted that there is no evidence either way.

I know you did not but some people in past have called his one series performances as a failure.Lillee was too good a bowler not to succeed in any conditions.

Link to comment
zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted
Just now, Vijy said:

no doubt about the bolded part of your statement. we have some good pacers now, but they need to play 50+ tests with sustained success to get close.

 

Kapil has an okay record in SC, but in those days (80s and 90s), the real SC experts were Padosi bowlers - Immy, two W's - aided by bottle caps and home umpires.

 

Yes, the point being that one only has to see Kapil 's bowling in SC. If Lillee played more, he had the skill to win a few games in SC 

 

 

Link to comment
Vijy Grand Master

Vijy

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I don't think Ashwin can do as well versus strong teams in SC apart from pitches where spinners get assistance. 

 

Eng won a test recently, India had to leave pitches "unprepared" to make him, and even likes of Axar, compete 

 

PS I have similar opinion on likes of Herath too 

much as I wish it was not the case, the last great all-conditions spinner I saw from India is Chandra. I still rate Ashwin, Jaddu, Kumble, etc. very highly and I put Jaddu in my all-time XI (in a different thread), but they are players who are very well-suited for some scenarios. While all of them have better overall records than Chandra, the latter was better overseas.

 

The good thing, however, is that if a team has enough players for diff scenarios, they can cover all bases. This is what Ind should aim to do IMO. Horses for courses. Diff batters and bowlers home and abroad.

Link to comment
Vijy Grand Master

Vijy

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I know you did not but some people in past have called his one series performances as a failure.Lillee was too good a bowler not to succeed in any conditions.

yes, one of the most complete fast bowlers of all time, along with Marshall - and to reiterate, that's just my opinion. others can rightly name Glenn McG, Steyn, etc. too

Link to comment
VT87 Rising Star

VT87

Posted
Posted

Lo@@ ka ATG when players   like Kohli who has multiple hundreds in every SENA country considered to be garbage then how can a HTB who does not have a single 5 in any SENA country hailed as an ATG.  Recently sucking donkey di@@ in SA with both bat and ball ,chutiya could not even get tailenders  wicket.lol At least Anderson has some noteworthy performance in every country . Only Ass - win fanboy considered him an ATG.

Link to comment
Adamant Mentor

Adamant

Posted
Posted

Definitely not an ATG after that horrendous tour of Sa. 

Where he blamed the third umpires for not being able to take wickets. 

 

Also Kumble isn't an ATG. 

 

ATG are bowlers like Wasim, Waqar, Imran who can decimate opposition anywhere anytime, Both Kumble and Ashwin are limited. 

 

I thought Ashwin was on the verge of becoming an ATG but the tour of SA cleared all my doubts. 

Link to comment
Adamant Mentor

Adamant

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Can any batsman average 55-60 with 10k runs and not be called an ATG?

An average of 24+ with the ball can't be equated to 55+ batting average, that would make Courtney Walsh and Ian Bishop better than Tendulkar. 

 

24+ bowling average can be compared with around 50 avg and yes there are many players who average around and over 50 but still aren't ATG. 

 

At best I will say Ashwin is as good with the ball as Mohd Yousuf was with the bat. 

Link to comment
Trichromatic Mentor

Trichromatic

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I don't think Ashwin can do as well versus strong teams in SC apart from pitches where spinners get assistance. 

 

Eng won a test recently, India had to leave pitches "unprepared" to make him, and even likes of Axar, compete 

 

PS I have similar opinion on likes of Herath too 

 

26 minutes ago, Vijy said:

george headley - maestro of playing on bad pitches. ken barrington - overseas expert, especially in SC. I think there are a few exceptions. even Steven Smith during his peak.

 

That's why likes of Ashwin is not competing to become greatest ever.

 

What you are saying is that since he can't perform all the time and can't become greatest bowler in last 100 years, he is not an ATG. :dontknow:

Link to comment
zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Vijy said:

much as I wish it was not the case, the last great all-conditions spinner I saw from India is Chandra. I still rate Ashwin, Jaddu, Kumble, etc. very highly and I put Jaddu in my all-time XI (in a different thread), but they are players who are very well-suited for some scenarios. While all of them have better overall records than Chandra, the latter was better overseas.

 

The good thing, however, is that if a team has enough players for diff scenarios, they can cover all bases. This is what Ind should aim to do IMO. Horses for courses. Diff batters and bowlers home and abroad.

 

Chandra and Gupte were good. Bedi & Prasanna (in his first 17 tests or so). Mankad too if you consider the surfaces of that period. 

 

If these guys bowled on tailored pitches at home, they could have had much better records. Maybe because they bowled on relatively less helpful pitches at home, it allowed them to be competitive outside as well as they are not expecting pitches to do all the work for them :hmmm:

 

 

Link to comment
Lord Grand Master

Lord

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I don't think Ashwin can do as well versus strong teams in SC apart from pitches where spinners get assistance. 

 

Eng won a test recently, India had to leave pitches "unprepared" to make him, and even likes of Axar, compete 

 

PS I have similar opinion on likes of Herath too 

 

Ashwin took 9 in that Test

Link to comment
Trichromatic Mentor

Trichromatic

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Adamant said:

An average of 24+ with the ball can't be equated to 55+ batting average, that would make Courtney Walsh and Ian Bishop better than Tendulkar. 

 

24+ bowling average can be compared with around 50 avg and yes there are many players who average around and over 50 but still aren't ATG. 

 

At best I will say Ashwin is as good with the ball as Mohd Yousuf was with the bat. 

 

Average of 24 for spinner can be compared with average of 55.

 

ATG spinners tend to average higher ATG pacers.

 

Shane Warne averaging 25 is rated higher than many 23-25 averaging pacers.

Link to comment
zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Ashwin took 9 in that Test

 

When the pitch wore down in the 2nd inning (in the first inning, gave away 140+ runs to pick up 3 wkts) ... Leach & Bess took wkts too 

 

Indian spinners post 1990 are, imo, in the lowest tier of cricketers. Mostly useless!

 

 

 

Link to comment
Trichromatic Mentor

Trichromatic

Posted
Posted
Just now, zen said:

 

When the pitch wore down in the 2nd inning (in the first inning, gave away 140+ runs to pick up 3 wkts) ... Leach & Bess took wkts too 

 

Indian spinners post 1990 are, imo, in the lowest tier of cricketers. Mostly useless!

 

 

 

 

W/L ratio of 15 says otherwise.

 

Series win in Australia says otherwise.

Link to comment
zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted
Just now, Trichromatic said:

 

W/L ratio of 15 says otherwise.

 

Series win in Australia says otherwise.

 

Pitches, watson! 

 

After turning rivers, streets, etc. in garbage, let's not turn pitches (and cricket) into one!

Link to comment
Lord Grand Master

Lord

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, zen said:

 

When the pitch wore down in the 2nd inning (in the first inning, gave away 140+ runs to pick up 3 wkts) ... Leach & Bess took wkts too 

 

Indian spinners post 1990 are, imo, in the lowest tier of cricketers. Mostly useless!

 

 

 

 

Leach took 2 for 100 in first inning. Dom Bess took 1 going for 6 rpo on last day when pitch had 'worn down'

 

Ashwin lacked a partner in that Test. Both Jaddu/Axar werent there. Else first innings would be better too.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...