Why are we trying to bring back Trundler Culture in Indian cricket again ?? Our pace bowling revolution started with the pace and bounce of Bumrah and Shami.and the height of Ishant.

[express bowling]

9 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

you yourself werent ready to back him ?? Then why are you saying " dropped unceremoniously" or blaming TM or selectors 

 

 

 

Because you don't pick a true talent and then drop him after 2 games.

 

There is a difference between developing and then picking him after a short time and dropping him after 2 games. 

 

I knew you would raise this point.

 

If I were the decision maker then I would have played him in every A-team game in both formats. 

 

And work on his stock ball by appointing specialist coaches. It's not that difficult to achieve. Can be done within a short time.

Edited September 3, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

I wouldn't get disheartened so quickly, the pool of genuine quick bowlers you mentioned are still around the team and will get chances going ahead. There's enough cricket to go around for all of them to be needed and time enough for some of them to improve by bowling more in domestic cricket now that the worst of the pandemic seems to be behind us. It might be the case that the ones we want are not being backed but someone getting proper backing is better than no one getting proper backing which was the case under Shastri and Kohli. 

 

If you see our pace attacks in both the Unofficial Test team as well as Asia Cup Team ... there is not a single specialist pacer with genuine pace and bounce.  Not even a single one.

 

This trend is pretty worrisome no matter which way we want to interpret it.

 

X may be chosen in place of my choice Y.  I understand that. But not feeling the need for pace and bounce in the attack is an old Indian tendency I have seen for decades. That is the thing I am pointing out.

[vvvslaxman]

I don't think bringing Siraj in for T20 a good idea. On occasions he can click. But his lengths are perfect hittable lengths in T20.  He can end up ruining his test career as well.   You need a mixture of bowlers. Current line up is terrible because of "fast bowler" Avesh. He did touch 145kph.  India could have gone with Moshin or even Khaleel.  Umran should be introduced in ODIs. Umran is an X-factor. But what is our end goal with Umran? Just playing T20s? T20 internationals are meaningless outside world t20. Wasting his potential there is criminal. Introduce him ODIs where he can have more overs under belt to get rhythm going. In T20 literally any bowler can be thrashed by any batsman. Umran is no exception. Right now Avesh is the only problem. This is something we expected even before the Asia cup. 

[tweaker]

Bumrah,Shami, are our main bowlers.The second string of bowlers ie Siraj,Saini,Prasiddh,Thakur,Chahar have all got opportunities in the playing 11.

Tyagi,Sen,Umran are too raw to be playing directly in the playing 11.This bowlers are still not certain in their state playing 11.

Avesh,Arshdeep have got opportunities when they have performed in ipl.

It is upto the bowlers to perform and cement their place in the playing 11.

We have seen that these bowlers are still not ready for international cricket.

 

If the seniors bowlers were not rested or have not got injured these young bowlers wouldn't have got opportunity to play.

 

If a young bowler is trying to replace Bumrah,Shami than they should have the skills to perform at their level consistentently.

 

 

[raki05]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

Because you don't pick a true talent and then drop him after 2 games.

 

There is a difference between developing and then picking him after a short time and dropping him after 2 games. 

 

I knew you would raise this point.

 

If I were the decision maker then I would have played him in every A-team game in both formats. 

 

And worked on his stock ball by appointing specialist coaches. It's not that difficult to achieve. Can be done within a short time.

Only in India morons believe that only trundler can bowl line and length. I mean look at trundler Avesh whom even rookie batter are bashing. Why does he got chances over Umran when Umran bowl at better pace having good Yorker and bouncer and has huge potential, on top of all this he has much better ipl than this Avesh guy. In India  Selectors  and idiot jhola chaap expert believes that only trundler can bowl line and length. This Bhuvi bubble will also bust soon, he is not a wkt taker and on his best day just a containing bowler. You can't be a fearsome attack with trundlers and containing bowlers. Your batsmen ll not have good days always and with Bhuvi and avesh kind of bowlers we have seen that even when pak were 9 down they took Bhuvi for a ride. This Bhuvi is biggest fraud to play for India for so long and next inline is Avesh.

Edited September 3, 2022 by raki05

[tweaker]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

If you see our pace attacks in both the Unofficial Test team as well as Asia Cup Team ... there is not a single specialist pacer with genuine pace and bounce.  Not even a single one.

 

This trend is pretty worrisome no matter which way we want to interpret it.

 

X may be chosen in place of my choice Y.  I understand that. But not feeling the need for pace and bounce in the attack is an old Indian tendency I have seen for decades. That is the thing I am pointing out.

Umran,Khaleel,Mohsin,Kuldeep should have been selected for the A team.

Kuldeep could have been selected for A team instead of being the net bowler.

As prasiddh is injured ,someone from the above four should be selected

[Jay]

32 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

do u think its easy to drop shami-siraj-bumrah in test ?? coz someone has to be 

Thakur plays purely due to give batting cushion

Umran lacks new ball bowling skills , how can he play test ??  They did take him to play in SA - A series red ball 

 

Isnt prasidh getting chances in ODI ?? They did select him for India-A too but he got injured cant blame selectors for that 

Don't discard them when they come back then. I need to see more chances. What bumrah and shami are gods? They can never have bad days?

 

Prasidh would have been a far better option in s.africa last time in tests. He would have probably won us with his bounce alone. Siraj was injured in that series. Instead they went with reckless umesh.

[tweaker]

After Bumrah and Shami ,Umesh Yadav,Navdeep Saini,Siraj,Prasiddh were next set of bowlers 

If the team management ,selectors,captain,coach doesn't have faith in them then these bowlers should retrospect about their perfomance.

 

If captain coach,selectors have more faith in Avesh Khan ,who has been pretty bad ,then we could assume what impression these bowlers have on team management

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, raki05 said:

 

 

You can't be a fearsome attack with trundlers and containing bowlers. 

 

 

Selectors  and  jhola chaap expert believes that only trundler can bowl line and length. .

 

 

 

 

Bro, these are two of the best lines I have read on this forum.   

 

If only our selectors and TM understood this !!

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 hours ago, Jay said:

Don't discard them when they come back then. I need to see more chances. What bumrah and shami are gods? They can never have bad days?

 

bumrah-shami-siraj are the most skillfull bowlers in the country they can have bad days but they are skillfull and experienced 

Their is no guarntee that the man who replaces them will do better 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Umran,Khaleel,Mohsin,Kuldeep should have been selected for the A team.

Kuldeep could have been selected for A team instead of being the net bowler.

As prasiddh is injured ,someone from the above four should be selected

 

Exactly !

[tweaker]

Umran,Khaleel,Mohsin,Sen,Tyagi should first play all the domestic matches for their states this year.Then they should play all the A matches,Ipl .

 

They should hone their skills ,increase their pace,bring variation to their bowling, should devlop  temperament to bowl which variations in which situations ,improve fitness ,improve fielding and batting.

 

They should be ready to replace Bumrah ,Shami when the need arises and they should be consistent that they cannot be dropped from the squad even after the seniors retire.

 

They should aim to replace atleast Bhubaneshwar, Thakur,Chahar in the odis

[Vickydev]

Because we are going for Tried and tested ATM. Rohit will have max one year as captain so he is putting all his eggs in bowlers he believes restrict opposition to 8-8.5 rpo and back the batting to do better.

 

He doesn't look like he wants to experiment and look for exciting fast bowlers. He just wants steady bowlers

[express bowling]

Fast bowling is a very difficult art to master. The main impediment is constant injuries and niggles.

 

There is tremendous stress on the feet, the knees and the back. Plus the expected career length is very short.

 

A lot of background work is needed to put the genuine quick bowlers on the right track. A lot of planning is needed to chart the career paths of the genuine quicks because the obstacles are often higher and the young players often feel totally lost.

 

Cricket Australia has, for the most part, done it admirably except maybe early 2010s. 

 

We are seeing too many talents losing their way ... like Tyagi, Mavi, Nagarkoti, Saini etc.

 

We need a Central Coordinator for the genuine quicks and genuine bouncy pacers in India who will look after every aspect of their development and progress.

 

The rewards that can be reaped from this exercise can be enormous.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Vickydev said:

Because we are going for Tried and tested ATM. Rohit will have max one year as captain so he is putting all his eggs in bowlers he believes restrict opposition to 8-8.5 rpo and back the batting to do better.

 

He doesn't look like he wants to experiment and look for exciting fast bowlers. He just wants steady bowlers

 

You have raised a very valid point.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Umran,Khaleel,Mohsin,Sen,Tyagi should first play all the domestic matches for their states this year.Then they should play all the A matches,Ipl .

 

They should hone their skills ,increase their pace,bring variation to their bowling, should devlop  temperament to bowl which variations in which situations ,improve fitness ,improve fielding and batting.

 

They should be ready to replace Bumrah ,Shami when the need arises and they should be consistent that they cannot be dropped from the squad even after the seniors retire.

 

They should aim to replace atleast Bhubaneshwar, Thakur,Chahar in the odis

 

Easiest way for these guys to force their way in is by developing their batting. You straight away get an edge. Hangrekar dude showed some signs. But his bowling right now is gun barrell striaght stuff. Batting is a bit of slogging. If he can hone, he has  a shot.

[Jay]

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

bumrah-shami-siraj are the most skillfull bowlers in the country they can have bad days but they are skillfull and experienced 

Their is guarntee that the man who replaces them will do better 

I dont care. If they under perform then they should be replaced too. Ruthless selection policy needs to be implemented. This is not a government job. Said it many times. It's like investment banking. Perform or die. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

I dont care. If they under perform then they should be replaced too. Ruthless selection policy needs to be implemented. This is not a government job. Said it many times. It's like investment banking. Perform or die. 

So umran was dropped 

Avesh isnt performing 

Prasidh hasnt performed in his last 3 series 

 

How are you advocating them ??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jay]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

So umran was dropped 

Avesh isnt performing 

Prasidh hasnt performed in his last 3 series 

 

How are you advocating them ??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am talking about shami underperforming in England recently. Siraj going missing etc. Should have been replaced by prasidh in SA and England.

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Fast bowling is a very difficult art to master. The main impediment is constant injuries and niggles.

 

There is tremendous stress on the feet, the knees and the back. Plus the expected career length is very short.

 

A lot of background work is needed to put the genuine quick bowlers on the right track. A lot of planning is needed to chart the career paths of the genuine quicks because the obstacles are often higher and the young players often feel totally lost.

 

Cricket Australia has, for the most part, done it admirably except maybe early 2010s. 

 

We are seeing too many talents losing their way ... like Tyagi, Mavi, Nagarkoti, Saini etc.

 

We need a Central Coordinator for the genuine quicks and genuine bouncy pacers in India who will look after every aspect of their development and progress.

 

The rewards that can be reaped from this exercise can be enormous.

 

 

 

Our biggest issue in the 2000s was reduction of pace. Munaf was hitting 140 kph easily when he started. But he turned into a line and length bowler. Ishant was fairly quick and bouncy at the start. He also dropped his pace. Umran in the most recent ireland series was bowling at low 140 kphs Significant reduction of pace.  I understand all fast bowlers drop their pace. Rabada often bowls like trundlers. So was Steyn.  Apart from Shami i have not seen any bowler displaying the ability of maintaining the pace right through the match.   You can plan all you want. But at the end of the day it is entirely in the hands of bowlers themselves.  Tyagi is the only guy who gives some hope. His action is less injury prone.  Hope they take the right flexibility training rather than gym training.  We are looking for bowlers who can sustain hostility right through ala Ferguson, Nortje. Not someone who can bowl a 150 kph delivery followed by three 140 kph deliveries.