India's current batting stops at 7

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Chahar can do it on his day but wont start.

 

he is extreme either will go empty handed or run through top order + his value is less in other phases

At best he shud be bhuvi backup 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Bhuvi and Bumrah are containing batsmen who get wickets due to dot balls. Not someone who can run through top order.

 

who got roy ,butler in england ?? how was that containing bowling ...........one swung and other seamed. IF shaheen swings n gets our batsman out its attacking but if bhuvi does its containing 

 

Also since when is containing bowling a crime. IF you are keeping the pressure up others will get wkt so its benefit for team. Eco is massively vital in t20 

In t20 most time on flat wkt when nothing will happen ull have to switch to defensive bowling 

 

Even shaheen afridi rarely runs through top order..............on most days he ll also take 1-2 wkts . Our game was quite rare types

Its t20 i mean how many times do u even see top order being run through

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Shami/Siraj can do it in theory but both very unreliable.

 

their avg eco both are worse then above players , konsi theory ?

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

DK is good for cameos only that too through timing and placement. Pandya can hit but still not enough.

 

at 7 who can play long innings  ? 7 pe cameo hi aate hai mostly 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

I'm talking brutal hitters like Russell/Livingstone etc whose mishit also go for sixes. Last such guy we had was Yusuf Pathan. Dhoni had power but too different approach

 

 

Russell and pandya both have same weakness

Livingstone actually bats higher 

Yusuf career performance ginno 3-4 se upar nhin hongi, he failed coz he was found out even at IPL level after a point 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

 

I'd rather have someone  else do it tbh. Someone whose wicket we can afford to lose early.

 

Rohit is captain now so early dismissal hurts. Maybe if Rahul can wake up coz he has all the ability. Or Pant/SKY

 

 

one player will play and whoever plays high attacking game his risk will affect strike rate 

[putrevus]

19 minutes ago, Lord said:

As I said after WT20 exit, we have lot of holes which our bilateral performances hide

 

1. No wicket taking new ball bowler

2. No power hitter/clean hitter at 7

3. Not enough lefties to take on SLA/Leggies

4. No powerplay basher batsman

5. No genuine bowler who can bat at 8-10

Those are the problems which have been there since 2013 CT.

[The Realist]

Desperately need to unearth bowlers who can hit. Current tail is worst in the world, embarrassingly bad. Look so fragile and weak.

 

Depth is the reason why Eng can have a "bang bang" approach to batting. With Ind 6 down and its game over. Won't win anything with such one-dimensional line-ups.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

As I said after WT20 exit, we have lot of holes which our bilateral performances hide

 

1. No wicket taking new ball bowler

2. No power hitter/clean hitter at 7

3. Not enough lefties to take on SLA/Leggies

4. No powerplay basher batsman

5. No genuine bowler who can bat at 8-10

 

this TM has looked to work on mostly all and  we have the best answers for each whatever we can have . No point thinking about livingstone hitting or woakes extra runs since we dont have that , what we can have is whatever best is avl 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

he is extreme either will go empty handed or run through top order + his value is less in other phases

At best he shud be bhuvi backup 

 

Now he can play at 7 if we are anyway gonna play Hooda/Axar. Will be more useful in Aus.

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

who got roy ,butler in england ?? how was that containing bowling ...........one swung and other seamed. IF shaheen swings n gets our batsman out its attacking but if bhuvi does its containing 

 

Also since when is containing bowling a crime. IF you are keeping the pressure up others will get wkt so its benefit for team. Eco is massively vital in t20 

In t20 most time on flat wkt when nothing will happen ull have to switch to defensive bowling 

 

Even shaheen afridi rarely runs through top order..............on most days he ll also take 1-2 wkts . Our game was quite rare types

Its t20 i mean how many times do u even see top order being run through

 

Never said they are bad bowlers or eco is bad. But it doesnt help when you are defending low score and need early wickets.

 

In Eng series, we got big scores so they couldnt afford many dots.So eventually got out trying to hit.

 

Its not just swing but attacking lengths. That can go for runs but also beat batsmen even on good/defensive shot.

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

their avg eco both are worse then above players , konsi theory ?

 

Their style of bowling. Pace+swing+ lengths. But they are highly inconsistent.

 

Not rooting for their inclusion.Though would still have Siraj over Avesh.

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

at 7 who can play long innings  ? 7 pe cameo hi aate hai mostly 

 

 

Russell and pandya both have same weakness

Livingstone actually bats higher 

Yusuf career performance ginno 3-4 se upar nhin hongi, he failed coz he was found out even at IPL level after a point 

 

DK plays only in last 5 overs. Even Axar is promoted above is 5th falls before. No. 7 should be able to do that himself.

 

Russell definitely is more powerful. So even his mishits work. Middle pe ho toh bahar hai hi.

 

Yusuf was badly used by us in T20Is.Anyway he had problems but I am only talking about having raw power

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

one player will play and whoever plays high attacking game his risk will affect strike rate 

 

Yes but captain's wicket early on is different from someone more expendable.

[neel roy]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

Quality bowlers who can bat are such an asset, be it warne,Lee,starc,rabada,Cummins,akram,broad,pollock,archer.

 

If there are 2 ,then put them at 8 and 9 ,adds so much depth to the batting without compromising the bowling.

Srinath Zak were bonafide hitters at no 9 and 10. Bhajji was gun. He won an asia cup match against pak single handedly. Agarkar was good..Even sreesanth could spank a few. So did kumble. Sunil joshi,ashish kapoor, rajesh chauhans of the world as well. Except Nehra and raju i think everyone could bat in those days..

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

this TM has looked to work on mostly all and  we have the best answers for each whatever we can have . No point thinking about livingstone hitting or woakes extra runs since we dont have that , what we can have is whatever best is avl 

 

Yeah not blaming them. We just don't have the players which is sad after 14 years of IPL.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Now he can play at 7 if we are anyway gonna play Hooda/Axar. Will be more useful in Aus.

 

Cant will maintain it 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Never said they are bad bowlers or eco is bad. But it doesnt help when you are defending low score and need early wickets.

 

He was part of SRH who has defended most low totals- bhuvi 

again chalo even if ur not convinced with them , is their a better option ??

In low total keeping it tight also becomes more important 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

In Eng series, we got big scores so they couldnt afford many dots.So eventually got out trying to hit.

 

they didnt get out to pressure they got to movement, butler cudnt have played that even if he was batting 1st same with roy 

Guys like finch, roy have technical issues which slight bit of swing seam can exploit 

 

Chalo ek min ke liye lets take ur logic , all it proves pressure gets wkt and at the end wkts matters

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Its not just swing but attacking lengths. That can go for runs but also beat batsmen even on good/defensive shot.

 

If that swing is working its clearly becoz it was on right length , defensive length pe ball kya hi swing hoga 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Their style of bowling. Pace+swing+ lengths. But they are highly inconsistent.

 

their lengths are all over which is why their records are messed up not even bad 

Inconsistency se bhi bure 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Not rooting for their inclusion.Though would still have Siraj over Avesh.

 

Siraj vs avesh is a different case

Siraj plays different role, Avesh was their hit the deck fast bowler plan who takes wkts in middle overs

Avesh khan 50% of wkts in IPL are in middle overs which has been an issue for us thats why he was backed so much . Also his bowling was meant for Aussie tracks

 

Siraj was mostly a different kind of bowler who ll mostly take wkts in PP and bowl well in other phases. Avesh specialty came in middle phases 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

DK plays only in last 5 overs. Even Axar is promoted above is 5th falls before. No. 7 should be able to do that himself.

 

the point is to get the best out of him and one the reasons for backing him is 

 

 

 

 

 

So with Avesh, DK - team are looking at pure role players

 

we dont have livingstone (who himself is not in form) so why think about it. Roles over individual 

 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Russell definitely is more powerful. So even his mishits work. Middle pe ho toh bahar hai hi.

 

Thats stands for most WI batsman over indian batsman 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Yusuf was badly used by us in T20Is.Anyway he had problems but I am only talking about having raw power

 

Power but very limited range , even if he was used badly by his success in IPL was also cut short becoz he didnt improve one bit

At the end if u cant execute that power has no meaning 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Yes but captain's wicket early on is different from someone more expendable.

Captain is setting the tone and everyone will have to follow it 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Yeah not blaming them. We just don't have the players which is sad after 14 years of IPL.

at the end u gotta do with whatever best u have 

Teams that win play like team, great individual together have mostly fallen short of well compiled teams

[vvvslaxman]

COmpare the overall package of our spinners and their spinners

 

Nawaz + Shadab    vs   Chahal + Bishnoi

 

 

It is not even a comparison. They are on a different planet. 

[Need4Speed]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ravi shastri abhi kuch bhi bolega, he was in squad shud have forced them too 

Agreed but its so hard to believe that we cant produce such cricketers..it seems to be an issue from grassroot level I guess which needs to be addressed..we wont get finished products from the start..but There should be some players with great ability at various levels of our structure..who needs to be encouraged and groomed to achieve high level of consistency

Edited September 5, 2022 by Need4Speed

[neel roy]

If only Tewatia could bowl some good leg spin. He would have been the perfect replacement for jadeja. He has the tools. Need confidence to bowl well. In batting he has dollops and he does what pakistan batsmen did to india. Move to off side prememeditate and hit sixes over cow corner..

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

COmpare the overall package of our spinners and their spinners

 

Nawaz + Shadab    vs   Chahal + Bishnoi

 

 

It is not even a comparison. They are on a different planet. 

 

Plus both are ARs and Shadab is brilliant fielders

[Lord]

1 minute ago, neel roy said:

If only Tewatia could bowl some good leg spin. He would have been the perfect replacement for jadeja. He has the tools. Need confidence to bowl well. In batting he has dollops and he does what pakistan batsmen did to india. Move to off side prememeditate and hit sixes over cow corner..

 

He's good for 2 overs, just like Hooda. 

[neel roy]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

He's good for 2 overs, just like Hooda. 

Yes and he is a left hander. So he could easily play instead of chahal. So hooda tewatia bishnoi pandya bhuvi bumrah. We will have batting till 8

[putrevus]

TMs cannot manufacture players, some morons just cannot understand that fact.

[Lord]

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Cant will maintain it 

 

 

He was part of SRH who has defended most low totals- bhuvi 

again chalo even if ur not convinced with them , is their a better option ??

In low total keeping it tight also becomes more important 

 

 

they didnt get out to pressure they got to movement, butler cudnt have played that even if he was batting 1st same with roy 

Guys like finch, roy have technical issues which slight bit of swing seam can exploit 

 

Chalo ek min ke liye lets take ur logic , all it proves pressure gets wkt and at the end wkts matters

 

 

If that swing is working its clearly becoz it was on right length , defensive length pe ball kya hi swing hoga 

 

It does swing on good length especially in England but if RR pressure is not there can be played out.

 

Pressure tab hoga if you build dots defending big target. Otherwise batsmen can play you out and attack others.

 

Look at numbers

 

Bhuvi 79 wickets in 75 games

Boult 63 in 46 (not a death bowler)

Starc 63 in 51

Hazelwood 46 in 30 (on and off in death)

 

Many bowlers are taking more WPM despite Bhuvi bowling in all phases.

 

IPL dynamic is different because he played in attacks that sustained pressure. Guys like Rashid,Steyn,peak Nattu. In intl,bowlers can be targetted by set batsmen.

 

And its not only about Bhuvi. Bumrah also has same issue now though he started differently. So his numbers are better than Bhuvi.

 

Even if one of them can bowl aggressively upfront. We will benefit in atleast low scoring affairs

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

their lengths are all over which is why their records are messed up not even bad 

Inconsistency se bhi bure 

 

 

Siraj vs avesh is a different case

Siraj plays different role, Avesh was their hit the deck fast bowler plan who takes wkts in middle overs

Avesh khan 50% of wkts in IPL are in middle overs which has been an issue for us thats why he was backed so much . Also his bowling was meant for Aussie tracks

 

Siraj was mostly a different kind of bowler who ll mostly take wkts in PP and bowl well in other phases. Avesh specialty came in middle phases 

 

Hardik can do that job now. Siraj can also bang it in. It was just form issue which seemed to be coming back in WI

 

We can't have one phase bowlers unless they can bat/field.

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

the point is to get the best out of him and one the reasons for backing him is 

 

 

 

 

 

So with Avesh, DK - team are looking at pure role players

 

we dont have livingstone (who himself is not in form) so why think about it. Roles over individual 

Thats okay but still situation has to be seen. You cant have worse batsman like Axar ahead of him. Then DK will produce cameos only whereas he can play bigger role if he comes earlier. It will only give him more time before launching himself. Far better than 10 ball innings player.

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

 

Thats stands for most WI batsman over indian batsman 

 

 

Power but very limited range , even if he was used badly by his success in IPL was also cut short becoz he didnt improve one bit

At the end if u cant execute that power has no meaning 

 

He did have sufficient range. Could play short ball and had paddle in his armoury. Brutal vs spin.

 

Yes he didn't improve and reflexes waned.

 

We need powerful players and then we can build on them. Hai nahi I know but that was the point.

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Captain is setting the tone and everyone will have to follow it 

 

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Quality bowlers who can bat are such an asset, be it warne,Lee,starc,rabada,Cummins,akram,broad,pollock,archer.

 

If there are 2 ,then put them at 8 and 9 ,adds so much depth to the batting without compromising the bowling.

From current lot,Mavi,Mohsin,Tyagi and that guy,too young though Hangerakar should be zeroed in for their desired skills

They can wield while being lead bowlers

Bawa also too young,isnt a no.8 or 9 though as of now

[rkt.india]

24 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Plus both are ARs and Shadab is brilliant fielders

Bishnoi is a brilliant fielder. Need to continue to work on his batting.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

 

It does swing on good length especially in England but if RR pressure is not there can be played out.

 

I can show even in India too 

New kookabura under light will always do rest depends on pitch how much zip it will give. A place like sydney wont but perth wud 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Pressure tab hoga if you build dots defending big target. Otherwise batsmen can play you out and attack others.

 

Even if opposition is batting 1st they always have the pressure to make huge score

and as far defending low total goes for that u need someone who can blow away a team which once even binny did 

Its not that easy anyways even starc-hazelwood cudnt defend their low total against Zimbabwe recently 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Look at numbers

 

 

Bhuvi 79 wickets in 75 games

Boult 63 in 46 (not a death bowler)

Starc 63 in 51

Hazelwood 46 in 30 (on and off in death)

 

now look at eco diff

 

Bhuvi 6.95

boult 8.08 (not a death bowler but he hurts his team in death unlike bhuvi which RR found out)

hazelwood 7.23

starc 7.55 (he takes a lot of wkts at death )

 

 

All names play in much better home condition for fast bowling apart from bhuvi , Eco is very important in t20 bhuvi is giving you.  U gave condition ki excuse in england but also swings in australia and nz then consider that advantage for those 3 guys whose home condition is that

 

He is falling short but he is still giving u advantage of economy 

 

Again where is he hurting you  and who are these better option who ll give wkts and also maintain the eco . Starc , hazelwood ki baaten to hum aise karte jaise humare pass hai

The right thing is to compare them to shami and siraj since u want to bring on starc-hazelwood logic 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Many bowlers are taking more WPM despite Bhuvi bowling in all phases.

 

IPL dynamic is different because he played in attacks that sustained pressure. Guys like Rashid,Steyn,peak Nattu. In intl,bowlers can be targetted by set batsmen.

 

Nattu 1 season hi raha

Steyn was on off kind of bowler in t20

Rashid is the only one but bhuvi builds pressure 1st and then rashid comes 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

And its not only about Bhuvi. Bumrah also has same issue now though he started differently. So his numbers are better than Bhuvi.

 

U have a better solution then them ??

 

Bumrah has 69 wkts in 58 games but u wont call him wkt taker , starc ull call with 63 in 51

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Even if one of them can bowl aggressively upfront. We will benefit in atleast low scoring affairs

 

They bowl defensively in ODI not t20 , dont mix formats 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Hardik can do that job now. Siraj can also bang it in. It was just form issue which seemed to be coming back in WI

 

Hardik is doing it and i dont see anyone better then him in India currently for that job 

Siraj se acha wo job bumrah karlega 

 

Problem with siraj has been his bad days are so bad so bad that u just cant hide him. His overall t20 record overshadows his 2 good seasons to scare anyone 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

We can't have one phase bowlers unless they can bat/field.

 

bhuvi-bumrah- arshdeep are all phase

harshal - 2 phase

Chahar - one phase 

avesh - 3 phase (not in form ) vs siraj 3 phase ( not in form in IPL ) ....................buri form men sab gande dikhte hai 

 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Thats okay but still situation has to be seen. You cant have worse batsman like Axar ahead of him. Then DK will produce cameos only whereas he can play bigger role if he comes earlier. It will only give him more time before launching himself. Far better than 10 ball innings player.

 

Their is no rule that axar cant go ahead , if axar can do better then him why not 

DK cant do that , dont even try ...............he has issues against leggies so dont throw him against them. He has been bought in this team to counter high pace hard length which hardik cant so keep him for that . If he falls to spin the ploy has no meaning

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

He did have sufficient range. Could play short ball and had paddle in his armoury. Brutal vs spin.

 

Short ball wasnt very comfertable , even if you see his 100 in SA ull see when he pulled wasnt in total command. 

Brutal vs spin only when in slot. teams started bowling away from him which is why he started failing in IPL.........

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Yes he didn't improve and reflexes waned.

 

Reflexes went off late his downfall started within in few years coz he didnt grow and teams worked him out . 

 

9 hours ago, Lord said:

We need powerful players and then we can build on them. Hai nahi I know but that was the point.

 

hardik - samad these are the best power players rest are mostly range players or strong vs one particular type of bowling