Pakistan are able to compete with India because of their superior Spinners and not Pacers.

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

I wonder if the stat guys will recommend this,based on pure stats they should

I advocate to play extra pacer over a spinner because our spinners have been struggling for some time now when pitch doesn't offer turn. They are very hittable.  But it will affect the overrate.

Edited September 6, 2022 by rkt.india

[Frustrated]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

how ??

In 1st game 

 

Indian seamers - 11.5 over 84 runs 9 wkts

Pakistan seamers 12 over 91 runs 2 wkts

 

Like how ?? 

I m excluding pandya's performance.  Only considering full time seamers from both sides.  Pandya is an all rounder.  If u include pandya, obviously ours is better.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Frustrated said:

I m excluding pandya's performance.  Only considering full time seamers from both sides.  Pandya is an all rounder.  If u include pandya, obviously ours is better.  

even if u exclude pandya bhuvi alone had 4 wkts +2 arshdeep and pakistani fast bowlers all 3 together had just 2 wkts 

 

bhuvi + arshdeep - 59 runs 8 overs 6 wkts , 7.37 eco 

Pakistan all 3 seamers 12 overs 91 runs 2 wkts , 7.58 eco 

 

still no match

[Frustrated]

21 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

even if u exclude pandya bhuvi alone had 4 wkts +2 arshdeep and pakistani fast bowlers all 3 together had just 2 wkts 

 

bhuvi + arshdeep - 59 runs 8 overs 6 wkts , 7.37 eco 

Pakistan all 3 seamers 12 overs 91 runs 2 wkts , 7.58 eco 

 

still no match

Fair enough.   But i believe there is something in cricket which can't be proved by stats.   For example, in the 1st game, Pak bowler Naseem Shah took wicket in the very 1st over.  India were 0/1.  That put lots of pressure on indian batting line-up.  And reduced the scoring rate for first powerplay. On the other hand,  none of our fast bowlers took any wickets in the first 4 overs.  In the shortest format, It's the early breakthrough that makes lot of difference.  Secondly, Pak fast bowlers destroyed HK top order for fun.  Our pace bowlers were impactless vs HK throughout the match .  That should also be seen in context.   

[Nikhil_cric]

38 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

@Nikhil_cric already mentioned about it

 Even in last game their seamers went for 11 runs more then ours 

Yeah. I've been banging on about this. Particularly Chahal. Him getting consistently outbowled by his Pakistani counterpart is costing us . 

 

Middle overs is where we are losing momentum in both innings. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Frustrated said:

Fair enough.   But i believe there is something in cricket which can't be proved by stats.   For example, in the 1st game, Pak bowler Naseem Shah took wicket in the very 1st over.  India were 0/1.  That put lots of pressure on indian batting line-up.  And reduced the scoring rate for first powerplay. On the other hand,  none of our fast bowlers took any wickets in the first 4 overs.  In the shortest format, It's the early breakthrough that makes lot of difference.  Secondly, Pak fast bowlers destroyed HK top order for fun.  Our pace bowlers were impactless vs HK throughout the match .  That should also be seen in context.   

then also see in context that they bowled to KL who was scratchy and kohli who came after a break. Once kohli-Rohit were set they cudnt keep the pressure. Taking 1 wkt doesnt end the job its the whole game 

 

We bowled to babar n rizwan who are playing at their top, but if you still see the 1st over they were in a bit of bother. Just we didnt get the wkt ....but they kept the pressure 

 

If you really wanna have a proper comparison need to see a bigger sample size 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Yeah. I've been banging on about this. Particularly Chahal. Him getting consistently outbowled by his Pakistani counterpart is costing us . 

 

Middle overs is where we are losing momentum in both innings. 

shadab khan vs chahal has been the major n main difference

[Nikhil_cric]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

shadab khan vs chahal has been the major n main difference

 

Yep , absolutely.  Shadab is bowling incredibly these days and we have no answer to him 

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

shadab khan vs chahal has been the major n main difference

Axar bishnoi is key. Chahal is ****. Always will be. Can't field or bat. And no sorry he isn't that good where we can just excuse his lack of ability in other aspects.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Avesh poor form

chahal lack of performances 

 

is creating a huge problem coz then other guys cant afford to have bad days which is impossible. Its t20 bowlers will have bad days but now pandya, bhuvi , arshdeep cant afford bad days . If someone like bhuvi who generally is very tight can have bad days imagine others who anyways have more bad days then even normal bowlers 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Suhaan]

Pakistani pacers bowled much better in Sunday,stats truly dont reflect whole story The two overs from Rauf and Naseem pulled them into the game

True their spinners bowled superbly in both the games but their pacers also played their part specially in the last game

Our pacers dont have clue while defending targets

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

Chahal is problematic, cannot be dropped but cannot be trusted either. Recent performance suggested he has improved, but comes a world event, he started being ineffective.

 

To put it other way he is not a very good defensive bowler. He can be an attacking option where there is a bit of bite. If an opposition wants to target a bowler on flat tracks he would be at the top of the list. Especially while chasing under lights he goes even more ineffective.  With minimal turn you can pretty much smash him anywhere you want. His dip in form would have been overlooked if he had been a half decent batsman and half decent fielder. That is where his uselessness gets exposed when he is having an off day.

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, Frustrated said:

Fair enough.   But i believe there is something in cricket which can't be proved by stats.   For example, in the 1st game, Pak bowler Naseem Shah took wicket in the very 1st over.  India were 0/1.  That put lots of pressure on indian batting line-up.  And reduced the scoring rate for first powerplay. On the other hand,  none of our fast bowlers took any wickets in the first 4 overs.  In the shortest format, It's the early breakthrough that makes lot of difference.  Secondly, Pak fast bowlers destroyed HK top order for fun.  Our pace bowlers were impactless vs HK throughout the match .  That should also be seen in context.   

There are smart stats that can actually meadure the quality of wickets taken. Even going by that, Pakistan's seamers haven't done better than ours - neither Cricinfo's nor Cricviz's smart stats support that argument. On the other hand, their spinners(Shadab over Chahal)have been consistently making the difference. 

[Frustrated]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

There are smart stats that can actually meadure the quality of wickets taken. Even going by that, Pakistan's seamers haven't done better than ours - neither Cricinfo's nor Cricviz's smart stats support that argument. On the other hand, their spinners(Shadab over Chahal)have been consistently making the difference. 

I don't think Pak pace bowlers will get smashed left right and centre against SL.  Unlike Indian pace bowlers who are capable of making the HK top order look unbeatable.   

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

To put it other way he is not a very good defensive bowler. He can be an attacking option where there is a bit of bite. If an opposition wants to target a bowler on flat tracks he would be at the top of the list. Especially while chasing under lights he goes even more ineffective.  With minimal turn you can pretty much smash him anywhere you want. His dip in form would have been overlooked if he had been a half decent batsman and half decent fielder. That is where his uselessness gets exposed when he is having an off day.

On pitches like these bowling defensively can get you wickets as a spinner when batsmen try to attack but he can't do that too.