India vs SA, 1st T20I (N), Thiruvananthapuram

[coffee_rules]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

 

First of all, there is nothing about top 3 having to stay (so get that out of your head). Additionally, bilaterals are about pushing yourself (and providing enough challenging situations for your team esp. before a key tournament so even being 10/4 is not really an issue).  KL could have been out on multiple occasions. He was struggling to get moving. 

Most wins in white ball cricket comes from one of the top staying. It is tough for MO to start from scratch. SA after losing 3 wickets in pp should’ve played percentage cricket. Get to 140 and fight it. 106 like the game against NZ in 2021 WT20 when India made 110-odd doesn’t make sense , even in T20. We don’t have stalwarts in MO. Even Panda gets it right only 30% of the time batting in MO. He plays way too many dot-balls even in 17-20 overs. 

[zen]

25 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Most wins in white ball cricket comes from one of the top staying. It is tough for MO to start from scratch. SA after losing 3 wickets in pp should’ve played percentage cricket. Get to 140 and fight it. 106 like the game against NZ in 2021 WT20 when India made 110-odd doesn’t make sense , even in T20. We don’t have stalwarts in MO. Even Panda gets it right only 30% of the time batting in MO. He plays way too many dot-balls even in 17-20 overs. 

 

You need to educate yourself more. There is nothing like one of the top 3 (your reference to batting positions) having to play till the end ... A team would depend on the top 3-4 in form batsmen, who would be batting anywhere in the 6-7 batting positions in an 11 (i.e. top 3-4 batsmen are not to be confused with top 3 batting positions) much like it would depend upon its top 3-4 bowlers whether they bowl pace or spin (i.e. top/inform batsmen and bowlers irrespective of the position they bat or bowl at)... Ind could chase because one of its top T20 player, SKY took the attack to the opponents (nothing to do with KL, who helped himself to a few runs. If he had got out, Ind has batting). 

 

PS if you still don't get it. In this game, Bhumva batted at #2. While his batting position is top order (#1-3), he is NOT SA's top 3 T20 batsmen. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by zen

[Norman]

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Most wins in white ball cricket comes from one of the top staying. It is tough for MO to start from scratch. SA after losing 3 wickets in pp should’ve played percentage cricket. Get to 140 and fight it. 106 like the game against NZ in 2021 WT20 when India made 110-odd doesn’t make sense , even in T20. We don’t have stalwarts in MO. Even Panda gets it right only 30% of the time batting in MO. He plays way too many dot-balls even in 17-20 overs. 

 

Sorry to be blunt  but this is hands down One of the dumbest post I've ever read on a sports forum. Defies common sense, logic and reasoning. 

[Norman]

This was a useless bilateral game where as a team your first priority is to either figure out or make a habit of executing a strategy that could win you bigger games and tournaments in the long run... 

 

Being 11 off 26 balls and ending up with 51 off 56 balls just to "stay till the end" and "ensuring your team a win" in games like these (that too when chasing 106) is as useful as a popped balloon for you and your side. Its good that most Indian fans have started realizing this "anchoring" jumla. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Norman

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, Norman said:

 

Sorry to be blunt  but this is hands down One of the dumbest post I've ever read on a sports forum. Defies common sense, logic and reasoning. 

Yes that makes a very good argument. I am stumped by your logic and reasoning. Can you discuss without getting personal?

Edited September 28, 2022 by coffee_rules

[Norman]

3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Yes that makes a very good argument. I am stumped by your logic and reasoning. Can you discuss without getting personal?

 

Nothing personal brother. My post was aimed more at your reasoning than you. Big difference. 

[coffee_rules]

27 minutes ago, zen said:

 

You need to educate yourself more. There is nothing like one of the top 3 (your reference to batting positions) having to play till the end ... A team would depend on the top 3-4 in form batsmen, who would be batting anywhere in the 6-7 batting positions in an 11 (i.e. top 3-4 batsmen are not to be confused with top 3 batting positions) much like it would depend upon its top 3-4 bowlers whether they bowl pace or spin (i.e. top/inform batsmen and bowlers irrespective of the position they bat or bowl at)... Ind could chase because one of its top T20 player, SKY took the attack to the opponents (nothing to do with KL, who helped himself to a few runs. If he had got out, Ind has batting). 

You need to open your eyes and be realistic. We are not sitting on a Yuvraj-Raina-Dhoni middle order to win matches consistently. Left to MO we have lost way too many matches in the 2015-22 era, when I say top3 , I mean set batsman in the top order playing with responsibility. We are blinded by way too many risk takers who come good on flat pitches and everyone wants everybody to bat like them in all pitches and conditions. The best excuse these bahubalis have is “that’s how we play”! But they are more successful in batting friendly wickets.  

Edited September 28, 2022 by coffee_rules

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, Norman said:

This was a useless bilateral game where as a team your first priority is to either figure out or make a habit of executing a strategy that could win you bigger games and tournaments in the long run... 

 

Being 11 off 26 balls and ending up with 51 off 56 balls just to "stay till the end" and "ensuring your team a win" in games like these (that too when chasing 106) is as useful as a popped balloon for you and your side. Its good that most Indian fans have started realizing this "anchoring" jumla. 

I am not defending Rahul but cricket is played on the field. It is not book cricket.When there is movement either thru the air or off the pitch batsmen become very vulnerable.

 

Other team also has talented fast bowlers who have the ability to do well on a pitch like this one. If scoring at 200 SR becomes so easy from ball one till ball 120 then it is no fun at all. 

[zen]

16 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

You need to open your eyes and be realistic. We are not sitting on a Yuvraj-Raina-Dhoni middle order to win matches consistently. Left to MO we have lost way too many matches in the 2015-22 era, when I say top3 , I mean set batsman in the top order playing with responsibility. We are blinded by way too many risk takers who come good on flat pitches and everyone wants everybody to bat like them in all pitches and conditions. The best excuse these bahubalis have is “that’s how we play”! But they are more successful in batting friendly wickets.  

 

First, most of the LOI pitches are likely to be flat (where those batting in the top order stats pad). Second, the top order (#1-3, not necessarily Ind's top 3 batsmen) has let Ind down in all important games (unless playing a low ranked team like BD) - 2015 ODI, 2016 T20, 2017 CT, 2019 ODI, 2021 T20, 2021 Asia Cup (where Ind won only one game versus a strong team - Pak). Third, many of Ind's best (or in form) batsmen are currently slotted in the MO (#4-7). 

 

Appears as if you have selective memory. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by zen

[Swag]

11 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

You need to open your eyes and be realistic. We are not sitting on a Yuvraj-Raina-Dhoni middle order to win matches consistently. Left to MO we have lost way too many matches in the 2015-22 era, when I say top3 , I mean set batsman in the top order playing with responsibility. We are blinded by way too many risk takers who come good on flat pitches and everyone wants everybody to bat like them in all pitches and conditions. The best excuse these bahubalis have is “that’s how we play”! But they are more successful in batting friendly wickets.  

Problem with this reasoning is that the top 3 will play slow and steady innings on good batting pitches and then accelerate, everyone will say well done.

In a knock out or on good bowling pitches we will go 3 down quickly and MO doesn't work, and everyone will be like, see, MO is useless hence top 3 plays risk free.

We need to look at the output.  2015-22 what have we won except bilaterals?  seems there is some flaw with this reasoning then.

We are the richest board, have IPL, have a good domestic set-up, we still fail to win anything.

[Norman]

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I am not defending Rahul but cricket is played on the field. It is not book cricket.When there is movement either thru the air or off the pitch batsmen become very vulnerable.

 

Other team also has talented fast bowlers who have the ability to do well on a pitch like this one. If scoring at 200 SR becomes so easy from ball one till ball 120 then it is no fun at all. 

 

No one is asking Rahul or anyone for that matter to bat at 200 SR from ball 1 to ball 120.

 

No matter what the pitch or conditions are, you just simply cannot excuse a knock of 50+ under run a ball in a random useless bilateral while chasing a paltry total of 106. And that too after a free flowing batter at the other end roughed up the bowlers for you. Can't believe people are defending that. 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Norman

[Lone Wolf]

This was actually a decent inns from Kela...  He himself sadi he hasn't scored much on tricky pitches.  Yes he was very lucky & in T20 u need a bit of luck.  Okayish inns for a low scoring game.  His PP batting needs a lot of work..  We all know he is mental midget but he is what we got now

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

 

No one is asking Rahul or anyone for that matter to bat at 200 SR from ball 1 to ball 120.

 

No matter what the pitch or conditions are, you just simply cannot excuse a knock of 50+ under run a ball in a random useless bilateral while chasing a paltry total of 106. And that too after a free flowing batter at the other end roughed up the bowlers for you. Can't believe pepyate defending that. 

 

Why is it not excusable, he did his job of holding one end and building partnership . What was the point of him going for shots and losing his  wicket. What would be gained by chasing that total in 10 overs.Cricket is still all about partnerships.

 

Other team was bowling well. How is it useless bilateral. If Bilaterals are useless then you might as well shut the shop down , it is ridiculous statement that bilateral are useless.

 

What did England do in last two matches with all the aggressive intent. 

[zen]

Btw, for those who follow ICC rankings, SKY on #2 now:

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by zen

[Norman]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Why is it not excusable, he did his job of holding one end and building partnership . What was the point of him going for shots and losing his  wicket. What would be gained by chasing that total in 10 overs.Cricket is still all about partnerships.

 

Other team was bowling well. How is it useless bilateral. If Bilaterals are useless then you might as well shut the shop down , it is ridiculous statement that bilateral are useless.

 

What did England do in last two matches with all the aggressive intent. 

 

 

I don't even know where to start with this.. 

 

Number one - 

 

"Holding one end" and "building partnerships" should atleast come at a strike rate of 110. Even that is mediocre but I'll cut some slack here. Batting @60 even after playing 35+ balls is just either plain selfishness or inability. Nothing to do with so called "holding job".

 

Number Two -

 

Bilaterals are useless..especially for a team like india. No matter how much you deny, it's a plain bitter fact. When your soul aim in a bilateral is to win the game or series at all cost , you are entirely missing the actual point of it. 

 

Number Three -

 

England are currently the world Champions, aided by the same aggressive intent that you seem to be mocking here. And they have outperformed India in the last two T20 world cups..again with that same intent. Again...taking too much from a glorified warmup (bilateral) game seems to be the common theme here. 

[coffee_rules]

45 minutes ago, zen said:

 

First, most of the LOI pitches are likely to be flat (where those batting in the top order stats pad). Second, the top order (#1-3, not necessarily Ind's top 3 batsmen) has let Ind down in all important games (unless playing a low ranked team like BD) - 2015 ODI, 2016 T20, 2017 CT, 2019 ODI, 2021 T20, 2021 Asia Cup (where Ind won only one game versus a strong team - Pak). Third, many of Ind's best (or in form) batsmen are currently slotted in the MO (#4-7). 

 

Appears as if you have selective memory. 

Asia cup 22 was totally a bowling failure , especially the 19th over debacle of Bhuvi and Chahal bein strike less in the MO. It was not a batting failure like ICC WT20 2021

[jusarrived]

8 minutes ago, Norman said:

 

 

I don't even know where to start with this.. 

 

Number one - 

 

"Holding one end" and "building partnerships" should atleast come at a strike rate of 110. Even that is mediocre but I'll cut some slack here. Batting @60 even after playing 35+ balls is just either plain selfishness or inability. Nothing to do with so called "holding job".

 

Number Two -

 

Bilaterals are useless..especially for a team like india. No matter how much you deny, it's a plain bitter fact. When your soul aim in a bilateral is to win the game or series at all cost , you are entirely missing the actual point of it. 

 

Number Three -

 

England are currently the world Champions, aided by the same aggressive intent that you seem to be mocking here. And they have outperformed India in the last two T20 world cups..again with that same intent. Again...taking too much from a glorified warmup (bilateral) game seems to be the common theme here. 

 

I was one of the first ones to criticize our approach in power plays , but today's game is not one of those. Your required rate is 5 so scoring rate was never a problem, bilaterals or a WC final you do what's needed to win the match . 

[zen]

As I mentioned before, another big let down was the captain not challenging the team to bat first in tough conditions (considering you could lose toss too) and opting for "safe" options 

 

In IPL 2022, we saw how Sir Don challenged his team to bat first in tough conditions against PK to prepare for such tough situations. 

[vishalvirsingh]

3 hours ago, The Realist said:

For Rahul a not out & 50 trumps team goals.

 

Padding Those Stats 

Exactlyi am just wondering that if Surya had got out early than there would be a lot of pressure on new batsman...KL 's tuk tuk game seems OK for an ODI or a TEST Match but not sure if he should be our opener.

I guess ISHAN Kishan who will win you a match if he scores fast. Rohit should consider guys like ISHAN, SKY, HOODA in the 11 as these guys will win you games when they start playing and there are 50% chance of them suceeding. Yes KL can win you a game when our bowlers hae already got them out for under 130 runs but a bigger score to chase and KL will give India a Slow START.

He always starts SLOW and later on , he scores fast but can INDIA give no 1 opening position to him who starts SLOW. I am not saying KL is not good but is he an ideal batsman for T20- not sure.

 

Deepak Hooda , SKY ., ISHAN Kishan - they attack from Ball 1 with Rohit and VIRAT should be in world cup team along with Hardik and Shardul.

if i was Rohit , i would 100 % pick Shardul  for T20 world cup- he fields well, bats well and even bowls OK...I would play him in 11 along with hardik. He is a clever bowler and always gets wickets , he has improved his batting tremendously.

[SRT100]

Kohli has returning to form was not surprising, after a once off success in the last game. 3 off 9 at 33.33 SR