Indian spearhead - Bhuvi v SA spearhead - Nortje (T20WC22)

[putrevus]

19 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Litton ne lita diya tha. Netherland, Zim ko chhod do to wickets nahi nikle bhai se. Sardarji ne bacha rakha ab tak.

So one bad match, he has not taken many wickets but he has been economical. We have to give him that. even Arshdeep got lit up by Litton. 

[putrevus]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Players don't fall from the sky.

 

They play U19, then State Level then A team games and / or the  IPL and then play for India. And older players have a lot of international match data too.

 

It's not difficult to see who the clutch players are.

 

Winning the big matches snd big tournaments are the only important things in cricket. Our twin Test series wins in Australia and our 3 World Cups are worth a 100 times than low key bilateral.LOIs and test series wins vs current SL, BD etc. 

 

And the performances which helped us achieve these will be worth a lot more too. And this logic applies to every team.

 

 

 

Who said that winning world cup is the only thing which is important.Then why play cricket then.  How many t20 world cups have happened since 2007  and how many youngsters were part of all the world t20s before last two world cup. What did they win?

 

Why is it they have to be tried and tested in world tournaments.

Edited November 7, 2022 by putrevus

[Ankit_sharma03]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:45 PM, rkt.india said:

Litton ne lita diya tha. Netherland, Zim ko chhod do to wickets nahi nikle bhai se. Sardarji ne bacha rakha ab tak.

isko bolte hai outdated thinking 

 

 

Nortje has more wkts and better eco then arshdeep , how come they are out of tournament. 

 

Let arshdeep bowl with guys who leak at other and then see his team result, it wud be cut in half as what happens with him in IPL or what happened with bumrah this season

 

Difference between arshdeep and nortje team result lies in support bowler

 

Bowlers on other end of Arshdeep

Bhuvi - 5.40

Shami- 6.11

 

 

Bowlers on other end of nortje

rabada- 9.43

Ngidi  - 8.92 

 

Its like a difference of 3-4 run per over at other end , which if u multiply by 8 overs is  24-32 runs per game 

 

U see how much bowlers around nortje is leaking to nullify his impact . Both shami-bhuvi have kept it air tight around arshdeep 

 

Bhuvi kumar has bowled 65 dots in 100 balls till now that means , 65 % dot balls ..........13 dots on avg per game . He has been reducing 2 overs per game of opposition on avg

 

Now coming to his wkts, he has been more unlukcy. Pick his overs against rizwan -masood or bavuma or zimb.............he was beating them almost 80% of times. Just hasnt been lucky with wkts and a day will come where he wont bowl well and pick cheap wkts ...........thats the case with wkts

 

Rahi baat litton, he even induced edge on litton which fell between DK and 1st slip.  But even his worst game he had same eco as Match so he had no Negative impact. Didnt litton beat arshdeep ?

 

IF rabada wud have bowled with same eco as shami-bhuvi and no taken a single wkts SA wud have easily won against Zimb- Netherland- even pakistan coz every lost game he leaked more then match Run rate . Thats what negative impact

Thats why eco is so highly spoken in t20 coz if ur not leaking runs ur not having a negative impact on team in anyway. 

 

Its Rabada who has been been negative for his team not bhuvi 

 

 

 

Abhi faltu ka defence mat do jab bina soche samjhe rabada pe vote daal diya tha to 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Chakdephatte]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

They play U19, then State Level, then A team games and / or the  IPL and then play for India. And older players have a lot of international match data too.

It's not difficult to see who the clutch players are.

Winning the big matches, big test series and big LOI tournaments are the most important things in cricket. Our twin Test series wins in Australia and our 3 World Cups are worth a 100 times than low key bilateral.LOIs and test series wins vs current SL, BD etc.

 

Nice writeup. Now tell me where you put Rabada in terms of being clutch.

 

Take the sample space of last World Cup, World T20 in UAE and the recent one in Australia. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Chakdephatte

[Chakdephatte]

It will be bumbed if he fails against England. You better be careful @Ankit_sharma03

He will be trolled to no limit.

 

He has Buttler's number. Fingers crossed.

[zen]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

Winning the big matches, big test series and big LOI tournaments are the most important things in cricket.

 

Add IPL to the list too as it is one of the most high pressure tournaments, making players heros or zeros in no time 

Edited November 7, 2022 by zen

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

It will be bumbed if he fails against England. You better be careful @Ankit_sharma03

He will be trolled to no limit.

 

He has Buttler's number. Fingers crossed.

ofcourse thats what everyone is waiting for bas fail ho jaye ek game fir batayenge. Its always been like that ..................bhuvi will always be abused for those few games 

 

Hazelwood - starc numbers against good sides are nothing great but questions will be raised on bhuvi (i did make that thread to but bhuvi ka naam hota to maan lete) . Which again got proven in the game against NZ as both didnt perform . Bhuvi was man of the series the against SA and Eng this yr.................fir kahenge ji bilateral hai 

 

Rabada has been so horrible this Wc that he single handedly ruined work for SA bowlers who had 4 bowlers with + impact, bhuvi ke aise game jaate to ye thread roz bump hota hai. 

 

Me n @sandeep have many times mentioned in past that their have been extreme bias against certain players for long .  Its t20 anyone can have a bad day but some like bhuvi cant as everyone will leech on them. 

 

Take same bhuvi stats and put any bowler with pace name on it, he ll be called a legend .

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

isko bolte hai outdated thinking 

 

 

Nortje has more wkts and better eco then arshdeep , how come they are out of tournament. 

 

Let arshdeep bowl with guys who leak at other and then see his team result, it wud be cut in half as what happens with him in IPL or what happened with bumrah this season

 

Difference between arshdeep and nortje team result lies in support bowler

 

Bowlers on other end of Arshdeep

Bhuvi - 5.40

Shami- 6.11

 

 

Bowlers on other end of nortje

rabada- 9.43

Ngidi  - 8.92 

 

Its like a difference of 3-4 run per over at other end , which if u multiply by 8 overs is  24-32 runs per game 

 

U see how much bowlers around nortje is leaking to nullify his impact . Both shami-bhuvi have kept it air tight around arshdeep 

 

Bhuvi kumar has bowled 65 dots in 100 balls till now that means , 65 % dot and making it a game of 17.3 oversthen 20

 

Now coming to his wkts, he has been more unlukcy. Pick his overs against rizwan -masood or bavuma or zimb.............he was beating them almost 80% of times. Just hasnt been lucky with wkts and a day will come where he wont bowl well and pick cheap wkts ...........thats the case with wkts

 

Rahi baat litton, he even induced edge on litton which fell between DK and 1st slip.  But even his worst game he had same eco as Match so he had no Negative impact. Didnt litton beat arshdeep ?

 

IF rabada wud have bowled with same eco as shami-bhuvi and no taken a single wkts SA wud have easily won against Zimb- Netherland- even pakistan coz every lost game he leaked more then match Run rate . Thats what negative impact

Thats why eco is so highly spoken in t20 coz if ur not leaking runs ur not having a negative impact on team in anyway. 

 

Its Rabada who has been been negative for his team not bhuvi 

 

 

 

Abhi faltu ka defence mat do jab bina soche samjhe rabada pe vote daal diya tha to 

Rabada has been out of form. You can replace Rabada with Nortje because comparison happened because of the pace of Rabada which he is not bowling at the moment. Without that 145-150k pace, he has lost the venom. No one voted for the trundler Rabada. don't just go by a literal name. You can even replace Rabada with Wood here. Just posting numbers without understanding the motto of the thread. Rabada was just an example. You can replace Rabada with Nortje or Wood. Except Adelaide against SL, our bowlers have also bowled on two of the most helpful surfaces in the tournament of Perth and MCG. There are a lot of variables. They got one flat pitch and result was there for everyone to see. They had no answer even against Litton.

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ofcourse thats what everyone is waiting for bas fail ho jaye ek game fir batayenge. Its always been like that ..................bhuvi will always be abused for those few games 

 

Hazelwood - starc numbers against good sides are nothing great but questions will be raised on bhuvi (i did make that thread to but bhuvi ka naam hota to maan lete) . Which again got proven in the game against NZ as both didnt perform . Bhuvi was man of the series the against SA and Eng this yr.................fir kahenge ji bilateral hai 

 

Rabada has been so horrible this Wc that he single handedly ruined work for SA bowlers who had 4 bowlers with + impact, bhuvi ke aise game jaate to ye thread roz bump hota hai. 

 

Me n @sandeep have many times mentioned in past that their have been extreme bias against certain players for long .  Its t20 anyone can have a bad day but some like bhuvi cant as everyone will leech on them. 

 

Take same bhuvi stats and put any bowler with pace name on it, he ll be called a legend .

 

 

 

You are posting this without understanding the motive of the thread. This thread isn't about Rabada. Rabada is just an example. Everyone will take a peak Rabada bowling at his pace he used to. Currently there is hardly much difference between bhuvi and Rabada in pace. Someone who would breach 150, struggling to touch 140 for sure is going to affect his performance.

[rkt.india]

38 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

It will be bumbed if he fails against England. You better be careful @Ankit_sharma03

He will be trolled to no limit.

 

He has Buttler's number. Fingers crossed.

 

1 hour ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Nice writeup. Now tell me where you put Rabada in terms of being clutch.

 

Take the sample space of last World Cup, World T20 in UAE and the recent one in Australia. 

But SA spearhead right now is Nortje, not Rabada. Rabada isn't bowling at the pace he used to. When he isn't bowling quick anymore then this comparison and thread becomes useless. So replace Rabada in this thread with someone like Nortje or Wood who both are bowling quick hitting 150k.

[rkt.india]

Let me change the title

[express bowling]

51 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Nice writeup. Now tell me where you put Rabada in terms of being clutch.

 

Take the sample space of last World Cup, World T20 in UAE and the recent one in Australia. 

 

 

I am saying that Rabada is not clutch in T20Is.

 

In fact, if I were to choose a T20I World 11, I will choose neither Bhuvi nor Rabada

 

This is what I wrote about Rabada before his failures in this World Cup.

 

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, rkt.india said:

 

But SA spearhead right now is Nortje, not Rabada. Rabada isn't bowling at the pace he used to. When he isn't bowling quick anymore then this comparison and thread becomes useless. So replace Rabada in this thread with someone like Nortje or Wood who both are bowling quick hitting 150k.

 

this thread was always about bhuvi vs rabada

 

so for ur context this how it all started

i was stating in teams weakness how Rabada numbers have been quite avg as compare to his stature . Infact he isnt giving strong value to his team in any phase which someone like bhuvi-shaheen-hazelwood does for their team in PP and guys like bumrah does in death .

 

Someone got offended and made this thread 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[singhvivek141]

42 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ofcourse thats what everyone is waiting for bas fail ho jaye ek game fir batayenge. Its always been like that ..................bhuvi will always be abused for those few games 

 

Hazelwood - starc numbers against good sides are nothing great but questions will be raised on bhuvi (i did make that thread to but bhuvi ka naam hota to maan lete) . Which again got proven in the game against NZ as both didnt perform . Bhuvi was man of the series the against SA and Eng this yr.................fir kahenge ji bilateral hai 

 

Rabada has been so horrible this Wc that he single handedly ruined work for SA bowlers who had 4 bowlers with + impact, bhuvi ke aise game jaate to ye thread roz bump hota hai. 

 

Me n @sandeep have many times mentioned in past that their have been extreme bias against certain players for long .  Its t20 anyone can have a bad day but some like bhuvi cant as everyone will leech on them. 

 

Take same bhuvi stats and put any bowler with pace name on it, he ll be called a legend .

 

 

 

Bhai 2 things,
1) Why do extreme bias exist against certain players ? The way you're are writing Christmas Carols for Bhuvi it seems that he has taken some 10-12 wickets till now.
Amongst Indian pacers, he has lowest number of wickets, despite getting the new ball and favourable conditions, I don't see wickets column. Economy is there, but also you can't ignore the fact that he hasn't bowled much in death. His performance is like someone with a good avg but a low SR, just a stat padder, nothing more.

2) Secondly, Bhuvi has failed in the 2 tournaments just before the WC, how do you expect people to suddenly join you in the "march for Bhuvi" when he is yet to give any match winning performance. You haven't written a single line praising Arshdeep or Shami (to whom you used to ridicule before the T20 WC for his high economy), but now you're just bypassing that despite them bowling in death as well. 

Again, maybe you, @Chakdephatte or others might be satisfied with whatever Bhuvi has achieved in this World Cup, many here don't, bhai ko ek match me death over diye they udhar bhi 2 boundries kha ke wapas agya, uske pehle Shami ne same over beautifully rok ke rakha, bhut Bhuvi couldn't handle the pressure.
I am just thinking, had the poster might have literally written Boult, Southee or Wood in comparison to Bhuvi, would you have even commented here, after this mediocre performance ?

Atleast, aisa performance to rakkho ki defend karna samajh bhi aae, just because Rabada had a poor World Cup, now Bhuvi is overhyped to moon by ignoring Arshdeep, Pandya or Shami (who had picked up crucial wickets in this tournament). 

Edited November 7, 2022 by singhvivek141

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Rabada has been out of form. You can replace Rabada with Nortje because comparison happened because of the pace of Rabada which he is not bowling at the moment. Without that 145-150k pace, he has lost the venom.

 

Let me bust your myth and ill show u stats of his before this Wc for out of form excuse

 

Rabada was bowling fast in 2016 but he leaked runs in 2016 Wc at 10.71 .................................tab to fassst thaa na ??? 

 

 

Rabada previously in Aus not just now 

Bhuvi vs Rabada in Australia - kaha hai wkts ??? 

 

Bhuvi                    vs                 Rabadas 

3 matches                                 3 matches  

34 avg                                      73 avg

6.80 eco                                    9.13 eco

30 s/r                                        48 s/r

 

Pehle bhi out of form tha ??? previous tour was in 2018 so dont tell me this rabada is out of form 

 

 

Now wkt taking skill of rabada 

 

In powerplays

Bhuvi                     vs  Rabada 

avg- 22.3                   avg - 33.5

eco - 5.76                  eco 7.94

s/r - 23.2                    s/r 25.3

 

 

In middle phase 

Bhuvi                     vs  Rabada 

avg- 22.3                       avg - 39.1

eco - 7.43                      eco - 8.56

s/r - 18                          s/r - 27.4

 

 

Kaha hai wkts ................his avg and s/r are both are inferior to bhuvi .....................he mostly gets his wkts in death where batsman are over attacking and even their difference isnt much 

 

Against Top sides - (Eng, Nz , SA/India, Aus)

 

Bhuvi

avg 23.45

eco 7.30

s/r - 19.2

 

Rabada

avg - 29.25

eco- 8.24

s/r- 21.2 

 

 

So who doesnt perform against good sides ??? 

 

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

 

No one voted for the trundler Rabada. don't just go by a literal name. You can even replace Rabada with Wood here. Just posting numbers without understanding the motto of the thread. Rabada was just an example. You can replace Rabada with Nortje or Wood. Except Adelaide against SL, our bowlers have also bowled on two of the most helpful surfaces in the tournament of Perth and MCG. There are a lot of variables. They got one flat pitch and result was there for everyone to see. They had no answer even against Litton.

So which rabada did you vote for ??? Its not me who overlooked format its everyone who thought Rabada is a great t20 bowler coz he is a GOAT in test 

 

Dont take wood name - he is taking wkts and eco well in control...................... Wood is doing well coz he is bowling well , wood ki jagah sam curran daal do Sa fir bhi qualify kar jayega .......................Sam curran isnt about speed , even put tim southee . Speed has no point unless u bowl well 

 

Rahi baat venue ki

Same Adelaide men rabada went at 12.33 and bhuvi 9.5 in their worse game . Difference ye tha ki Bhuvi game that was a normal scoring rate and rabada went over it 

Same Sa let pak score 185 from 40/3 on a batting venue 

Same Sa let netherland score 158 where Nortje gave runs at 2.5 eco  that means netherland got those runs in 16 overs almost at 9 RR

 

Gist of the thread yahi tha ki lets abuse our own bowler just becoz he has less pace and ignore every other fact . 

 

[zen]

10 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

, many here don't, bhai ko ek match me death over diye they udhar bhi 2 boundries kha ke wapas agya, uske pehle Shami ne same over beautifully rok ke rakha, bhut Bhuvi couldn't handle the pressure.

 

Wasn't even used in the last two pressure overs against BD iirc 

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Bhai 2 things,
1) Why do extreme bias exist against certain players ? The way you're are writing Christmas Carols for Bhuvi it seems that he has taken some 10-12 wickets till now.
Amongst Indian pacers, he has lowest number of wickets, despite getting the new ball and favourable conditions, I don't see wickets column. Economy is there, but also you can't ignore the fact that he hasn't bowled much in death. His performance is like someone with a good avg but a low SR, just a stat padder, nothing more.

 

Eco under 6 in t20 is as good as it gets specially in Aus conditions . Do check the thread of best 4 attacks ull see the value of Eco 

If only Rabada has has that eco without a single wkt.................SA wud have qualifed. 

 

10 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

2) Secondly, Bhuvi has failed in the 2 tournaments just before the WC, how do you expect people to suddenly join you in the "march for Bhuvi" when he is yet to give any match winning performance. You haven't written a single line praising Arshdeep or Shami (to whom you used to ridicule before the T20 WC for his high economy), but now you're just bypassing that despite them bowling in death as well. 

Again, maybe you, @Chakdephatte or others might be satisfied with whatever Bhuvi has achieved in this World Cup, many here don't, bhai ko ek match me death over diye they udhar bhi 2 boundries kha ke wapas agya, uske pehle Shami ne same over beautifully rok ke rakha, bhut Bhuvi couldn't handle the pressure.
I am just thinking, had the poster might have literally written Boult, Southee or Wood in comparison to Bhuvi, would you have even commented here, after this mediocre performance ?

Atleast, aisa performance to rakkho ki defend karna samajh bhi aae, just because Rabada had a poor World Cup, now Bhuvi is overhyped to moon by ignoring Arshdeep, Pandya or Shami (who had picked up crucial wickets in this tournament). 

 

coz his whole career have been quite solid 

About not single written line of shami - arshdeep (ull find that in other threads, this thread is about bhuvi ) 

 

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

To add

bhuvi has bowled 65 dot balls out of 100 this WC , 65% dot balls in 5 games

Means 13 dots per game on avg , 2.1 overs of no runs

 

So opp doesnt have 20 overs , they have 17.5 .....................now add to that shami has been going around 6 eco (again excellent) . Both are taking of 8 overs among them just for 5.5 to 6 RR............8 overs is 40% of an innings . I dont know shami dot ball % but im sure if u combine both opp are playing less then 17 overs not 20 

 

 

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Rashid khan - My focus is always on economy rate

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/ipl/top-stories/ipl-2022-my-focus-is-always-on-economy-rate-says-rashid-khan/articleshow/91393608.cms

 

Sunil narine - My mindset is how to not concede runs rather than thinking about wickets foremost'

https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1324379/sunil-narine---my-mindset-is-how-to-not-concede-runs-rather-than-thinking-about-wickets-foremost

 

If you keep it tight wkts will come at other end as both t20 legends state .  Eco in t20 is off massive importance specially when totals are getting higher n higher

 

IF you can keep it tight and take wkts thats legendary stuff but only very very very few can do that like bumrah-archer or this Wc Nortje . But those are very few bowlers , beyond that if u can take care of one department u have done a great job for ur team. Even if ur taking wkts eco shud be kept in checked just that u can be a bit lenient in terms of eco 

 

In terms of wkts , a lot of times bowlers bowl well but somehow they dont get wkts but on days when they bowl not as good they get in bunch. Specially in t20 a lot of wkts occur due to batsman being over aggressive and more often then not it wud be the pressure from other end 

 

[zen]

Bowlers outbowling 

 

Rabada in SA -> Nortje, Ngidi, & Parnell 

Bhuvi in IND -> Arshdeep (a newbie), Shami (not even a part of WC and where many of the noobs though he was not good enough to play T20s), & Sir Don (who is more a 5th-6th bowler) 

 

Bhuvi

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

 

its all about partnership be it batting or bowling

 

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Eco under 6 in t20 is as good as it gets specially in Aus conditions . Do check the thread of best 4 attacks ull see the value of Eco 

If only Rabada has has that eco without a single wkt.................SA wud have qualifed. 

 

 

coz his whole career have been quite solid 

About not single written line of shami - arshdeep (ull find that in other threads, this thread is about bhuvi ) 

 

 

 

Rashid and Narine are spinners. While Bhuvi is a pacer. Both are different skills and require different thought process. Spinners do need to be defensive in T20s but not fast bowlers especially when you are bowling with the new ball and in helpful conditions like this WC.