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How long before we realize our Test team needs a major revamp?


vvvslaxman

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India has not found a wicket taking spinners overseas. Wristies are never part of the test side due to uber long tail. Just like we make a compromise in T20 we do the same with Tests. Ashwin/Jaddu play for their batting. There is no seaming all rounder either. Then reliable openers. Not like Kela who starts the series well and as it goes on, his performance gets worse and worse

 

against ENgland  84, 26, 129, 5, 0, 8, 17, 46

against SA  123, 23, 50, 8, 12, 10

 

Rohit half the time goes missing when we tour overseas.  Gilll should be slotted in the middle order. Bumrah's injury can shorten his career. Siraj is no spring chicken.  By now he should have played 25 tests. Shami is aging. Will BCCI once against botch up by playing all these aging guys together as long as they can?  For all his consistency in the world T20 Kohli is yet to prove us that he has a second peak in this format. 

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1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

India has not found a wicket taking spinners overseas. Wristies are never part of the test side due to uber long tail. Just like we make a compromise in T20 we do the same with Tests. Ashwin/Jaddu play for their batting. There is no seaming all rounder either. Then reliable openers. Not like Kela who starts the series well and as it goes on, his performance gets worse and worse

 

against ENgland  84, 26, 129, 5, 0, 8, 17, 46

against SA  123, 23, 50, 8, 12, 10

 

Rohit half the time goes missing when we tour overseas.  Gilll should be slotted in the middle order. Bumrah's injury can shorten his career. Siraj is no spring chicken.  By now he should have played 25 tests. Shami is aging. Will BCCI once against botch up by playing all these aging guys together as long as they can?  For all his consistency in the world T20 Kohli is yet to prove us that he has a second peak in this format. 

no openers, no middle order, no spin. only a great keeper-batter + solid pace attack

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4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

India has not found a wicket taking spinners overseas. Wristies are never part of the test side due to uber long tail. Just like we make a compromise in T20 we do the same with Tests. Ashwin/Jaddu play for their batting. There is no seaming all rounder either. Then reliable openers. Not like Kela who starts the series well and as it goes on, his performance gets worse and worse

 

against ENgland  84, 26, 129, 5, 0, 8, 17, 46

against SA  123, 23, 50, 8, 12, 10

 

Rohit half the time goes missing when we tour overseas.  Gilll should be slotted in the middle order. Bumrah's injury can shorten his career. Siraj is no spring chicken.  By now he should have played 25 tests. Shami is aging. Will BCCI once against botch up by playing all these aging guys together as long as they can?  For all his consistency in the world T20 Kohli is yet to prove us that he has a second peak in this format. 

Safe to say it will take good 10+ years to realise we need a major rewamp

Like the way we had when Ganguly took over in 2000

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2 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Safe to say it will take good 10+ years to realise we need a major rewamp

Like the way we had when Ganguly took over in 2000

If I was  a touring side to India - I would not pick 3 pcaers + 1 spinner as most teams do.

 

Pick 2 or 3 spinners and they will start winning tests in India. England did that with Panesar and Swann a decade back.

 

Maybe that will break things as you outlined for major changes - but until then the powers that be are comfortable with this. They don't care about a forum - most people turn on TVs and the ad revenues are rolling in.

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3 hours ago, Vijy said:

no openers, no middle order, no spin. only a great keeper-batter + solid pace attack

Come on even you know that isn't true. Except NZ we have been dominating all sides (home+away) for several years now. You can't fluke a test #1 ranking, and we have held the ICC mace 5 out of last 7 years. 

 

Sure we aren't like ATG WI/Aus or even Smith's RSA to some extent, but there are plenty of things to be proud of when it comes to red ball cricket. Future also looks good. 

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30 minutes ago, AKane said:

Pick 2 or 3 spinners and they will start winning tests in India. England did that with Panesar and Swann a decade back.

England tried that in 2016, let Karun Nair score 300.

 

NZ, RSA, Aus, SL, WI all touring sides have tried, but no avail. I wonder why!!!!!

 

If it were so easy beating this Indian side in India why do all visiting teams keep getting thrashed by world record margins every second game, despite winning toss 60% of the time?

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13 minutes ago, Gollum said:

England tried that in 2016, let Karun Nair score 300.

 

NZ, RSA, Aus, SL, WI all touring sides have tried, but no avail. I wonder why!!!!!

 

If it were so easy beating this Indian side in India why do all visiting teams keep getting thrashed by world record margins every second game, despite winning toss 60% of the time?

 

If you play two quality spinners in India - you can win. 

 

We don't play Pak anymore but even they won a series in 1987 with Qadir and Qasim vs Kapil/Gavaskar team. They again took 2 of 3 tests in 1999 with Saqlain and Mushtaq Ahmed.

 

NZ and RSA have not won series's with spin - true. RSA has won series in India in 1999/2000....... Have we won a series in NZ? We have never won one in SA. WI is hopeless nowadays. I am not sure Aus has tried with 2 quality spinners.

Edited by AKane
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12 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

If you play two quality spinners in India - you can win. 

If, can...

12 minutes ago, AKane said:

We don't play Pak anymore but even they won a series in 1987 with Qadir and Qasim vs Kapil/Gavaskar team. They again took 2 of 3 tests in 1999 with Saqlain and Mushtaq Ahmed.

Lucky for them. They have declined in tests and this Indian team at home is more efficient/ruthless than our 80s/90s sides. No comparison whatsoever. You really think Pak can escape with a draw if they play us here, you following their test team in recent times?

Qadir was always manhandled by us, they won here once in the 80s but that was a pathetic Indian team for home conditions with Maninder Singh, Shastri, Ayub as our spin trio...we even lost to England that time. 80s was our worst decade when it comes to spin stocks...nobody between spin quartet era and Kumble era. 

They beat us in 90s because they were much better side than India, period. Also had a mental stranglehold, got lucky as well in Madras and Eden. Also we had just Srinath/Kumble back then, this team has more firepower when it comes to bowling.

12 minutes ago, AKane said:

NZ and RSA have not won series's with spin - true. RSA has won series in India in 1999/2000....... Have we won a series in NZ? We have never won one in SA. WI is hopeless nowadays. I am not sure Aus has tried with 2 quality spinners.

RSA won with pace in 2000.

NZ never won in India, we have won there a couple of times.

How is it our fault if Aus doesn't have another Lyon like spinner? You make it sound like it is easy producing such kind of spinners.

Anyway I don't even understand this part of your post. What exactly do you want to convey here?

Edited by Gollum
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Afghans came here with some so called great spinners.....Vijay/Dhawan combined scored 300 runs in 50 overs on day 1....both individually managing more than what Afghans could in either innings. Match got over in 2 days but what people forget is we scored almost 500 at 5 rpo, Afghans lasted just over 50 overs across both their innings!!!!

 

Do people still not understand difference between formats? Adil Rashid averages 60 in India, Santner and Maharaj over 80...same guys who bully us with the white ball. Sure you can pick up Aijaz's 10fer but at what cost, 10/250? India won that test by close to 400 runs and they lost by innings to one player on our side. 

 

People talk about Swann-Panesar but forget that the 2012 Eng side had peak versions of Cook, Trott, KP, Bell, Prior and an Anderson who had his first taste of success in Asia, that reverse swing spell in Kolkata!!!! 

 

You look at the scorecards of tests in India since 2013, then the fact that we have lost 65% of those tosses, W-L of 35/2 and majority wins being by margin of innings or 200+ runs......then ICF experts swoop in and say how easy it is to beat this India in India:hysterical:

 

Last test of NZ in India, lost by 390 runs

Last test of Eng in India, lost by innings and 25 runs

Last test of RSA in India, lost by innings and 202 runs

Last test of Aus in  India, lost by 8 wickets

 

If India loses by such margins in SENA I will stop watching cricket. But but but it is so easy to beat India in India, India weak, India decline. Do folks hear even listen to the stuff they say?

 

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14 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Anyway I don't even understand this part of your post. What exactly do you want to convey here?

 

That we are not as good as you say we are...... even with the doctored pitches.

See what you said here......

 

42 minutes ago, Gollum said:

At no point in next 5 years will we fall below #3 in test rankings.

 

There are only 6 or 7 good teams in the cricketing world and we don't play one of them - is it a big deal if we don't fall below 3? Its not like we are #3 in the soccer world.

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9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Glad we lost in SF itself, had the fiasco happened in final don't know how this forum would have reacted!!! So much rona dhona over a T20 result, my God. 

Its about the rot Gollum, nothing else

Its about the inevitable,its about the corruption

Fans here see it coming to the test squad as well,we are aging and that pattern will be there ,no planned phase out of seniors ,no replacements either

 

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31 minutes ago, tweaker said:

The seniority factor is responsible for most of the problems in all the formats.

The team management is so afraid of the senior players that they have given statement that Rohit,Virat will decide about their future in T20.

 

We need fresh players in all the formats.

 

 

Yesteryear seniors had some decency and voluntarily stepped aside from the T20 format to allow youngsters to play. Of course, this was before T20 was a big money spinning format and maybe they too would have stayed on in present circumstances. The only way out is to adopt a strict analytics based system which sets a performance threshold. Like the yo-yo test, any cricketer failing to meet the threshold should be automatically dropped. We can't have a bunch of faded "stars" stinking it up series after series.

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19 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Afghans came here with some so called great spinners.....Vijay/Dhawan combined scored 300 runs in 50 overs on day 1....both individually managing more than what Afghans could in either innings. Match got over in 2 days but what people forget is we scored almost 500 at 5 rpo, Afghans lasted just over 50 overs across both their innings!!!!

 

Do people still not understand difference between formats? Adil Rashid averages 60 in India, Santner and Maharaj over 80...same guys who bully us with the white ball. Sure you can pick up Aijaz's 10fer but at what cost, 10/250? India won that test by close to 400 runs and they lost by innings to one player on our side. 

 

People talk about Swann-Panesar but forget that the 2012 Eng side had peak versions of Cook, Trott, KP, Bell, Prior and an Anderson who had his first taste of success in Asia, that reverse swing spell in Kolkata!!!! 

 

You look at the scorecards of tests in India since 2013, then the fact that we have lost 65% of those tosses, W-L of 35/2 and majority wins being by margin of innings or 200+ runs......then ICF experts swoop in and say how easy it is to beat this India in India:hysterical:

 

Last test of NZ in India, lost by 390 runs

Last test of Eng in India, lost by innings and 25 runs

Last test of RSA in India, lost by innings and 202 runs

Last test of Aus in  India, lost by 8 wickets

 

If India loses by such margins in SENA I will stop watching cricket. But but but it is so easy to beat India in India, India weak, India decline. Do folks hear even listen to the stuff they say?

 

 

I completely agree - we are doing something to doctor wickets in India ..... Ashwin is unplayable in India and very very ordinary to bad outside India. Same with other bowlers... Eventually people will figure out what we are doing but they have not as yet.

 

 

India in NZ - 2 tests     NZ won by 10 wickets/ NZ won by 7 wickets

The test championship on neutral ground vs NZ  -  NZ won by 8 wickets.

Last 2 tests vs SA in SA - SA won by 7 wickets/ SA won by 7 wickets

 

Its not all roses......

 

Yes a lot of teams are in a rebuilding phase - SA is not the team of Smith/Amla/ABD/Kallis with Steyn as the main bowler..... Aus is a shadow of the team of 2000s..... England is not as good as you mentioned and WI is the pits.

 

yes we are doing well.

 

Edited by AKane
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14 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Glad we lost in SF itself, had the fiasco happened in final don't know how this forum would have reacted!!! So much rona dhona over a T20 result, my God. 

It's not just a T20 result, it's a proper beatdown! No wonder there is Rona dhona over the manner of losing. 

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17 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Its about the rot Gollum, nothing else

Its about the inevitable,its about the corruption

Fans here see it coming to the test squad as well,we are aging and that pattern will be there ,no planned phase out of seniors ,no replacements either

I understand people are emotional, just thought that by now (48 hours) things should have settled down. Thoda excess ho raha hai, and too much negativity. Also the cancelling of our legitimate achievements in recent times....saw one post which said we have won nothing the last 10 years....bhai toh phir 2020-21 BG kya tha? 

 

Legit criticism is ok, but going overboard can be avoided. I agree with almost all the criticism here, haa rot hai, corruption hai, lack of accountability hai, ambition kam hai, seniority culture vs youth etc. But doesn't mean I will start cancelling the highs of my team, they joy the players have given me in recent times. Doesn't mean I will suddenly start overrating all other teams to pull my team down. I have always felt that P4P Indian cricket team ranks at the bottom, but one must also be fair when it comes to cherishing the positives. 

Edited by Gollum
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