Your thoughts about Pujara in the day and age of Bazball?

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, putrevus said:

Pujara will face any bowler on any wicket and be fine. I don't think he would be intimated by anyone. This guy literally put his body on line to get two most famous results for India facing much more  hostile bowling than Dravid ever did in any of his 161 tests.  Dravid was part of the team for 66 allout and 100 allout in SA.

 

As you correctly pointed out the problem with Indian lineup is they never really had prolonged peak. Dravid also never had prolonged peak , his best years were 2002 to 2005.

 

Dravid is better overall player but I would take Pujara over Dravid for home series against any bowling attack.

 

That attack should not have Leach definitely lol Honestly who is the best spinner that Pujara faced in his career?  

 

Lyon, Swann are  the only decent spinners has face in his career.  Lyon more times. Other than no real worthy spinner has played in his era in the class of Murali, Warne, Herath. Most recently he is getting out to left arm spinners more frequently. 

 

 

[putrevus]

32 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That attack should not have Leach definitely lol Honestly who is the best spinner that Pujara faced in his career?  

 

Lyon, Swann are  the only decent spinners has face in his career.  Lyon more times. Other than no real worthy spinner has played in his era in the class of Murali, Warne, Herath. Most recently he is getting out to left arm spinners more frequently. 

 

 

What was avg scores on those wickets.Dravid is not better player of spin than Pujara.

 

 

[kohli]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

David averaged under 30 in SA, if you take our one good series in Australia against a B grade bowling attack without Mcgrath and Warne he would have averaged under 25 in Australia , in SL also he under performed very badly .Same goes with VVS he stunk in many countries.

 

Yet both of them played over 290 tests.Everybody scores at home and why are we holding that against Pujara. Pujara was an assest in in India.I would not have recalled him into test cricket after SA. But after being recalled you have to give them Australian series. It is vital we have some experience when facing Aussies as ICC finals might be at stake.If we are out of reckoning for ICC finals, I would kick both Kohli and Pujara out.

Only McGrath missing in. 2004 series. Warne was garbage against ind. Bowling attack of gillespie, lee, bichal & macgil is not a B grade.

[vvvslaxman]

30 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What was avg scores on those wickets.Dravid is not better player of spin than Pujara.

 

 

 

yea. But Pujara has a whole bunch of other issues against seamers.  In the last 3 years Pujara's ability against spin has regressed as well. We shouldn't really be comparing Dravid's performance in the 2000s to give rope to Pujara.  Pant has been our star for us in Tests and the lower order batsman since the Austrlaian tour. Indian bowlers have been masking trimurthies for far too long.  Our fast bowlers can overcome COVId and earn wins. Why do batsmen have this COVID excuse.

[Laaloo]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

SR is not the problem for Pujara but as number 3 batsman, you are expected to score big hundreds, if you are not doing that job then you should not be in the team. Samething applies to Kohli and openers. Australian series should be end for both if they don't perform.

 

I will give them pass from 2020 to till now as we were in weird times and it is highly impossible to assess the impact of Covid bubbles on players.

SR of 34 is definitely a problem because the problem with pujara is he's never set. The onus is always on the batsmen at the other end to rotate strike and put pressure on the bowlers while this guy pitches a tent at the other end. And no I'm not asking pujara to slog blindly but strike rate of 34 is piss poor. And don't get me started on his pathetic fielding and inability to take quick singles or turn twos into threes. He's a liability. 

[vvvslaxman]

I truly can't believe Pujara still has defenders. Our fast bowlers are not going to mask these guys forever.  After second injury you will sure see a performance dip in Bumrah. Shami may not be the same shami anymore. Siraj also had indifferent outing recently.  Once our bowlers start showing decline (they are already showing) trimurthis will be brutally exposed.  We already have a longish tail. We already saw at the oval when Kohli went missing in both innings and Pujara in one innings. Best time to ease youngsters into this set up is when we play teams like Bangladesh, West Indies. Letting these guys stat pad against low ranked sides like BD will prolong our misery. Transition will become a lengthy process.

[zen]

Ind's most impactful test batsman

 

Top scored with a 90 where BD = 133/8 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Laaloo said:

SR of 34 is definitely a problem because the problem with pujara is he's never set. The onus is always on the batsmen at the other end to rotate strike and put pressure on the bowlers while this guy pitches a tent at the other end. And no I'm not asking pujara to slog blindly but strike rate of 34 is piss poor. And don't get me started on his pathetic fielding and inability to take quick singles or turn twos into threes. He's a liability. 

I never wanted him back in the team after him and Rahane were dropped.His SR in India is normally around 45 to 50.He tires fast bowlers and then attacks spinners.He cannot do that in SENA as fast bowlers keep coming. And you are right he is liability everywhere else. 

[Majestic]

4 hours ago, putrevus said:

I never wanted him back in the team after him and Rahane were dropped.His SR in India is normally around 45 to 50.He tires fast bowlers and then attacks spinners.He cannot do that in SENA as fast bowlers keep coming. And you are right he is liability everywhere else. 

Yes, that's true.

 

One of the reasons why he struggles so much in places like NZ, SA and WTC Final is because he hardly gets spin to get going. 

[Majestic]

5 hours ago, zen said:

Ind's most impactful test batsman

 

Top scored with a 90 where BD = 133/8 

SA- 28

NZ - 20

Eng - 29

WI - 20

 

Not contributing at all in tough overseas conditions is also an impact. VVS over him any day.

[zen]

30 minutes ago, Majestic said:

SA- 28

NZ - 20

Eng - 29

WI - 20

 

Not contributing at all in tough overseas conditions is also an impact. VVS over him any day.

Everyone knows that in the top order (#1-3) those are respectable numbers in SENA and when many times he serves as a virtual opener with India losing one of the openers early  (In some threads, I have broken it down relative to others in the top 3). 
 

The architect of Ind’s first win in Aus after more than 70 years in over 10 test series. That is worth like 10x. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by zen

[Majestic]

41 minutes ago, zen said:

Everyone knows that in the top order (#1-3) those are respectable numbers in SENA and when many times he serves as a virtual opener with India losing one of the openers early  (In some threads, I have broken it down relative to others in the top 3). 
 

The architect of Ind’s first win in Aus after more than 70 years in over 10 test series. That is worth like 10x. 

What respectable numbers? Look at Gavaskar and Dravid numbers and this response gets blown away right there.

 

The win in Aus 2018 came with arguably the weakest Australian batting lineup of all-time. It is not worth 10x. The one in Aus 2020 is greater and worth memorable and the architect there was Pant and multiple other youngsters alongwith Pujara and Rahane. Had we not won in Aus 2020, this era Indian team would have no legacy in Tests as they have not won in SEN countries.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Majestic

[zen]

35 minutes ago, Majestic said:

What respectable numbers? Look at Gavaskar and Dravid numbers and this response gets blown away right there.

 

Well good batsmen will have good numbers ... You are the one wasting time on Pujara's arent when he has done well relative to the 11 he has played in, serving as virtual opener on many occasions

 

Since 2018 in SENA, among those who have played consistently in a variety of conditions and 20 innings, Pujara is comfortably ahead:

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
CA Pujara	2018-2022	25	46	2	1683	193	38.25	4645	36.23	4	11	4	198	2
KL Rahul	2018-2022	17	33	0	927	149	28.09	1933	47.95	3	2	4	126	5

 

The  average number of balls faced per inning is staggering too (100+ balls) ... 15 scores of 50+ in 46 innings = 1/3 innings (KL's = 1/7)

 

 

PS for comparison the MO:

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RR Pant	2018-2022	20	36	3	1377	159*	41.72	1983	69.44	4	4	2	147	25
V Kohli	2018-2022	22	42	0	1687	153	40.16	3465	48.68	4	9	3	209	3
AM Rahane	2018-2022	23	44	1	1135	112	26.39	2575	44.07	1	6	4	120	8

 

 

Pujara in top order is in the league of his own!

 

 

Quote

The win in Aus 2018 came with arguably the weakest Australian batting lineup of all-time. It is not worth 10x. The one in Aus 2020 is greater and worth memorable and the architect there was Pant and multiple other youngsters alongwith Pujara and Rahane. Had we not won in Aus 2020, this era Indian team would have no legacy in Tests as they have not won in SEN countries.

 

India has played against weak batting and/or bowling line ups in Aus in the past, it had never won in its 70+ years history. It is Pujara who helped to create history ... In 2020, Pujara scored 3 50s in last 4 innings to again help India win a series ... He is the common factor in the two series. 

 

Add to that his performances in Asia!

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by zen

[Majestic]

38 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Well good batsmen will have good numbers ... You are the one wasting time on Pujara's arent when he has done well relative to the 11 he has played in, serving as virtual opener on many occasions

 

Since 2018 in SENA, among those who have played consistently in a variety of conditions and 20 innings, Pujara is comfortably ahead:

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
CA Pujara	2018-2022	25	46	2	1683	193	38.25	4645	36.23	4	11	4	198	2
KL Rahul	2018-2022	17	33	0	927	149	28.09	1933	47.95	3	2	4	126	5

 

The  average number of balls faced per inning is staggering too (100+ balls) ... 15 scores of 50+ in 46 innings = 1/3 innings (KL's = 1/7)

 

 

PS for comparison the MO:

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RR Pant	2018-2022	20	36	3	1377	159*	41.72	1983	69.44	4	4	2	147	25
V Kohli	2018-2022	22	42	0	1687	153	40.16	3465	48.68	4	9	3	209	3
AM Rahane	2018-2022	23	44	1	1135	112	26.39	2575	44.07	1	6	4	120	8

 

 

Pujara in top order is in the league of his own!

 

 

 

India has played against weak batting and/or bowling line ups in Aus in the past, it had never won in its 70+ years history. It is Pujara who helped to create history ... In 2020, Pujara scored 3 50s in last 4 innings to again help India win a series ... He is the common factor in the two series. 

 

Add to that his performances in Asia!

 

 

Rahane 2020- Melbourne Test.. Everything changed with that 100.. That's impact. There couldn't have been a more timely 100 in a career than that.

[zen]

24 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Rahane 2020- Melbourne Test.. Everything changed with that 100.. That's impact. There couldn't have been a more timely 100 in a career than that.

Yes, a good inning … However, Pujara is in a league of his own!! Look at his 100 in Adelaide Link & other venues in 2018 .. when Pujara did not score India lost … in 2020, he scored 3 50s in 4 innings (and even took many blows)

I can’t wasting time in such basics …You appear remember 1 random 100 from Rahane (only 100 he hit in SENA since 2018. Exceptions don’t make rules) but feel the need to argue against a player with 3 100s in a series, helping India to win a series for the first time after 70+ years, along other performances in other series as mentioned!

Edited December 16, 2022 by zen

[Majestic]

19 minutes ago, zen said:

Yes, a good inning … However, Pujara is in a league of his own!! Look at his 100 in Adelaide Link & other venues in 2018 .. when Pujara did not score India lost … in 2020, he scored 3 50s in 4 innings (and even took many blows)

I can’t wasting time in such basics …You appear remember 1 random 100 from Rahane (only 100 he hit in SENA since 2018. Exceptions don’t make rules) but feel the need to argue against a player with 3 100s in a series, helping India to win a series for the first time after 70+ years, along other performances in other series as mentioned!

Pujara > Rahane

Laxman > Pujara

Kohli > Laxman

Dravid > Kohli

 

Overseas performance counts more because the kind of cricket India plays in Tests, they are alien to what other powerhouses play at their home.

[zen]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Pujara > Rahane

Laxman > Pujara

Kohli > Laxman

Dravid > Kohli

 

Overseas performance counts more because the kind of cricket India plays in Tests, they are alien to what other powerhouses play at their home.

You are wasting your time on lists (and basic numbers) that not many care for!

 

Some of the batsmen play in the top order, while some in the middle order, and in teams with different strengths and weaknesses. Some periods are batting friendly, some bowling friendly. 

PS the 2018 history making series alone gives Pujara 10x the weightage (Ind had probably made like 12 test tours in 7 decades before this one. Other Asian teams are yet to win a series in Aus). None of the others have 10 series of 500+ runs in SENA & where India has won. Their total “impactful” series (not an inning here and there) will not even equal 10. 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by zen

[speedracer]

On 12/16/2022 at 12:03 PM, zen said:

 

Well good batsmen will have good numbers ... You are the one wasting time on Pujara's arent when he has done well relative to the 11 he has played in, serving as virtual opener on many occasions

 

Since 2018 in SENA, among those who have played consistently in a variety of conditions and 20 innings, Pujara is comfortably ahead:

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
CA Pujara	2018-2022	25	46	2	1683	193	38.25	4645	36.23	4	11	4	198	2
KL Rahul	2018-2022	17	33	0	927	149	28.09	1933	47.95	3	2	4	126	5

 

The  average number of balls faced per inning is staggering too (100+ balls) ... 15 scores of 50+ in 46 innings = 1/3 innings (KL's = 1/7)

 

 

PS for comparison the MO:

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RR Pant	2018-2022	20	36	3	1377	159*	41.72	1983	69.44	4	4	2	147	25
V Kohli	2018-2022	22	42	0	1687	153	40.16	3465	48.68	4	9	3	209	3
AM Rahane	2018-2022	23	44	1	1135	112	26.39	2575	44.07	1	6	4	120	8

 

 

Pujara in top order is in the league of his own!

 

 

 

India has played against weak batting and/or bowling line ups in Aus in the past, it had never won in its 70+ years history. It is Pujara who helped to create history ... In 2020, Pujara scored 3 50s in last 4 innings to again help India win a series ... He is the common factor in the two series. 

 

Add to that his performances in Asia!

 

 

Nope. 2018 aussie team was not even weak at all. Their bowling was top tier. Indian bowling and Aussie bowling that year were easily the best in the world. 

 

One of the most clutch performances of all time by puji. 

 

Every other team would have got walloped by Aussies of 2018. India made them quit by peaking at the right time. 

 

Have a look at Aussie batsmen in 2018 and check their records in home conditions. It is still well above average. 

 

That Aussie team would beat most great teams of the past. The bowling attack alone would Be a nightmare to deal with. 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, speedracer said:

Nope. 2018 aussie team was not even weak at all. Their bowling was top tier. Indian bowling and Aussie bowling that year were easily the best in the world. 

 

One of the most clutch performances of all time by puji. 

 

Every other team would have got walloped by Aussies of 2018. India made them quit by peaking at the right time. 

 

Have a look at Aussie batsmen in 2018 and check their records in home conditions. It is still well above average. 

 

That Aussie team would beat most great teams of the past. The bowling attack alone would Be a nightmare to deal with. 

 

Indians love batting there for some reason. Pant has his best record in Australia. Even the batsman like Agarwal who has so much weaknesses has decent record. Irfan, Bhajji, Jadeja. Kohli has around 1000 runs at adelaide alone. India's problem was not really batting. It was the bowling that was the problem. Either Warner or Clarke punished us badly.  Moment we found a pace quartet that could bully Australia in Australia we turned things around.

[zen]

38 minutes ago, speedracer said:

Nope. 2018 aussie team was not even weak at all. Their bowling was top tier. Indian bowling and Aussie bowling that year were easily the best in the world. 

 

One of the most clutch performances of all time by puji. 

 

Every other team would have got walloped by Aussies of 2018. India made them quit by peaking at the right time. 

 

Have a look at Aussie batsmen in 2018 and check their records in home conditions. It is still well above average. 

 

That Aussie team would beat most great teams of the past. The bowling attack alone would Be a nightmare to deal with. 

Yep, Aus in Aus is usually tough to beat. Even if someone thinks it was not, … … … 

 

Pujara has been a common factor in both of India’s win. 2018 was his series, which is what hurts most of his haters (and a poetic justice for hating a legend and simply because fools/haters will find a way to remain unhappy so let Pujara give them that reason  )

 

 

PS even on this thread, ironically, Pujara played with the highest SR for India and scored the most runs! (Nothing more needs to be said  )

Edited December 18, 2022 by zen