Hindenburg group accuses Adani group of fraud

[Khota]

9 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

My bad, I thought they were still on DowJ. Anyway, allegations have to violate  country’s laws 

No problem my friend. If it was SEC there would be investigations, fines to the tunes of Billions of dollars and some serious jail time and repercussions they could not bear.

 

What is alleged is fraud and theft by this party. If true they are stealing money and making the country weaker.

 

I am not saying they are not delivering a good product in the end, but greed got better of them is the allegation.

[BlueBlood]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:22 PM, coffee_rules said:

Not all have sued them, even though they have been shafted by Hindenburg. Certainly no multi-billion dollar company has been investigated by SEC based on biased on research of HR. They know its credibility 

 

Goes to show you are such a fool betting on others on this forum not knowing facts.

 

Nikola Motors was investigated, sued and the founder & ceo jailed after Hindenburg reported on them:
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2021-267

 

and

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/22/business/dealbook/nathan-anderson-nikola-trial.html
 

Same case with Carl Icahn recently (who is as popular as Trump in US business circles and several other companies). This is the reason why Adani stock hasn't recovered. But since Adani's son in law is high up in SEBI and his best friend Modi controls supreme court, he will get away in India. A farce of a democracy.

 

Your brainwashed BJP or Gujju worship is sickening.

 

For once, I beg you to remove your regional and whatever political bias you have and actually speak objectively with honesty and dignity.

 

You are the perfect example of cultish behavior where you will defend anyone aligned with BJP to your last breath even when you know deep down you are wrong.

Edited August 21, 2023 by BlueBlood

[coffee_rules]

7 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Goes to show you are such a fool betting on others on this forum not knowing facts.

 

Nikola Motors was investigated, sued and the founder & ceo jailed after Hindenburg reported on them:
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2021-267

 

and

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/22/business/dealbook/nathan-anderson-nikola-trial.html
 

Same case with Carl Icahn recently (who is as popular as Trump in US business circles and several other companies). This is the reason why Adani stock hasn't recovered. But since Adani's son in law is high up in SEBI and his best friend Modi controls supreme court, he will get away in India. A farce of a democracy.

 

Your brainwashed BJP or Gujju worship is sickening.

 

For once, I beg you to remove your regional and whatever political bias you have and actually speak objectively with honesty and dignity.

 

You are the perfect example of cultish behavior where you will defend anyone aligned with BJP to your last breath even when you know deep down you are wrong.

You douche! Read again. I said multi-billion dollar company, not some small fishes Don’t quote me from now. I will ignore you. You can’t argue without getting into personal abuses

Edited August 21, 2023 by coffee_rules

[ravishingravi]

16 hours ago, Khota said:

No problem my friend. If it was SEC there would be investigations, fines to the tunes of Billions of dollars and some serious jail time and repercussions they could not bear.

 

What is alleged is fraud and theft by this party. If true they are stealing money and making the country weaker.

 

I am not saying they are not delivering a good product in the end, but greed got better of them is the allegation.

 

Except that law doesn't work based on gut feeling. For SEC or SEBI, one has to prove a direct link between manipulation and transfer of funds. Regulatory authorities cannot considering correlation to be causation.

 

Harshad Mehta was darling of stock market and was destroyed by SEBI when caught red handed. However if you have evidence of Stock manipulation please do share with SEBI. Deloitte clearly didn't. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by ravishingravi

[Khota]

7 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Except that law doesn't work based on gut feeling. For SEC or SEBI, one has to prove a direct link between manipulation and transfer of funds. Regulatory authorities cannot considering correlation to be causation.

 

Harshad Mehta was darling of stock market and was destroyed by SEBI when caught red handed. However if you have evidence of Stock manipulation please do share with SEBI. Deloitte clearly didn't. 

SEC will investigate. SEBI is the extension of government. Apples and Oeanges.

 

Still no lawsuit. Scared of discovery process in West where they would be treated as ordinary folks.

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

SEC will investigate. SEBI is the extension of government. Apples and Oeanges.

 

Still no lawsuit. Scared of discovery process in West where they would be treated as ordinary folks.

 

Again uninformed. SEC comes under US Federal government. 

 

Adani doesnt have to challenge in an alien jurisdiction. But it seems you have the proof they are criminals. Please do share it here. ICB can do with some TRP on mainstream media.

[BlueBlood]

10 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

You douche! Read again. I said multi-billion dollar company, not some small fishes Don’t quote me from now. I will ignore you. You can’t argue without getting into personal abuses

Nikola motors was a 18 Billion dollar company that got investment from General Motors.

 

If you actually read the article I posted for 2 minutes you would have known this.

 

I proved you wrong right there. I can find 10 other Billion dollar companies investigated by SEC due to Hindenburg. There's another well known person called Carson Block who is similar to Hindenburg with similar reputation of accurate reports.

 

After Hindenburg report and SEC investigation, it went down to 2 Billion Dollars.

 

Now it's clear to me you are a regionalist and also will happily be a slave to Adani and Modi even though you deep down know what they are doing is wrong and even if it is actually hurting you directly.

 

This is why I said you are a cult worshipper, nothing I say will change a brainwashed person.

 

I proved you wrong with actual proof and yet you go on arguing instead of accepting you are wrong.

 

It's because of educated people like you who have zero objectivity, it's easy for media to brainwash the masses in India. When someone with better knowledge comes with proof showing your bias and mistakes, you still argue and yell instead of accepting you are wrong.

[coffee_rules]

.

NEW ROAST OUT: https://t.co/Lpx55m3Vja #ajeetbhartiroast #ravishkumar #AdaniEnterprises pic.twitter.com/UepgAvaJbw

— Ajeet Bharti (@NijiSachiv) August 21, 2023

Edited August 21, 2023 by coffee_rules

[BlueBlood]

Of course you will not respond to my post and run away as always @coffee_rules

 

This is the issue with the country.

 

There's no intelligent debate anymore. People never accept mistakes or apologize.

 

This is why it's easier to create labels instead of solving problems.

 

Instead of comparing ourselves and growth to China, we compare with Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and be happy about it.

 

Instead of being objective and gaining unbiased knowledge, the media headlines are believed 100% with zero objectivity.

 

A large percentage of Indian population still believes COVID came to India because of muslims. This level of brainwashing in even the educated people has never occurred in India before.

[coffee_rules]

To The  douche

Finally, a forensic examination of ⁦@HindenburgRes⁩’s report which called #AdaniEnterprises “the biggest con in history”.

After reading this excellent piece by ⁦@SubramanianKri⁩, former #CEA & current ⁦@IMFNews⁩ director, (India) the real con is Hindenburg pic.twitter.com/3V6EqNir0e

— Minhaz Merchant (@MinhazMerchant) February 16, 2023

Edited August 21, 2023 by coffee_rules

[Khota]

3 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Again uninformed. SEC comes under US Federal government. 

 

Adani doesnt have to challenge in an alien jurisdiction. But it seems you have the proof they are criminals. Please do share it here. ICB can do with some TRP on mainstream media.

Learn to read. If he had listings in US SEC would have investigated.

 

Keep on defending thieves. You are getting good at it.

[Khota]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

To all douches

Take that **** to court and get some money. Loser report.

[coffee_rules]

49 minutes ago, Khota said:

Take that **** to court and get some money. Loser report.

Minhas is a credible journalist and not from what you guys call godi media. If he shares a report, I will consider it seriously than the blabberings of the Blue douche. 
 

Please read about the GoI  policy changes since 2021 and the investor exuberance that can shoot up the stock price. This is a regular happening especially in growing volatile markets. 
 

Regarding investors from shell companies, the SIT probe by SEBI is in court and the next hearing is on Aug 29. I will wait till then. I believe in courts more than some videowale baba sharing inane videos on ICF

 

https://www.livelaw.in/top-stories/adani-hindenburg-supreme-court-sebi-securities-exchange-board-india-235142#:~:text=The Supreme Court refused to,listed on August 29%2C 2023.

Edited August 21, 2023 by coffee_rules

[mishra]

23 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

Instead of comparing ourselves and growth to China, we compare with Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and be happy about it.

Very Basic facts.

1. Under Nehuru, Asia on average grew at over 6% while iNdia grew below 4%

2. Under Indiraji story was worse

3. Militarily, Technicalogically and economically Pakistan was at same level till Narsimha Rao. Its under him that we took a decisive turn. Not under Fraud Gandhis and Nehurus.

India was poorly managed  but China was equally poorly managed and till 1987 economies were comparable. But China started pulling away. All under "Vishudhh Congress"rule.

4. Unless Chinese economy shrinks, there is no official catching up because a 5% of 20 trillion is significantly higher than 7% of 3 trillion. So what is there to compare.

 

People opposing current regime forget that its current regime which has followed correct geopolitics and geo ecomic policies and hopefully that will get Indian economy to grow despite other economies (specially China) to go into shrink mode.

 

 

And Yes, Untill 2014 average Indian used to compare India with countries you mentioned. Average Indian has now come out of that mentality. India suddenly has a voice since 2014. Wait and watch what happens in next Modi sarkar

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by mishra

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 hours ago, mishra said:

till Narsimha Rao

The most under-rated PM. In my book, he is the GOAT of Indian PMs.

 

Uncharismatic? Yep.

Surly? Maybe.

Would he win a debate? Never

Brilliant mind? Most certainly.

Got the ball rolling for India's entry into the big time? Absolutely.

 

We must learn to vote for people who have the best interest of all citizens in mind and know how to move the nation forward economically. After all, we are not electing the Prime Debater, are we?

[coffee_rules]

20 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

The most under-rated PM. In my book, he is the GOAT of Indian PMs.

 

Uncharismatic? Yep.

Surly? Maybe.

Would he win a debate? Never

Brilliant mind? Most certainly.

Got the ball rolling for India's entry into the big time? Absolutely.

 

We must learn to vote for people who have the best interest of all citizens in mind and know how to move the nation forward economically. After all, we are not electing the Prime Debater, are we?

Agree on all accounts, but India had no other choice than open up. We were bankrupt and with hardly any foreignEx reserves. WorldBank/IMF literally armtwisted India into liberalization, 

[BlueBlood]

3 hours ago, mishra said:

Very Basic facts.

1. Under Nehuru, Asia on average grew at over 6% while iNdia grew below 4%

2. Under Indiraji story was worse

3. Militarily, Technicalogically and economically Pakistan was at same level till Narsimha Rao. Its under him that we took a decisive turn. Not under Fraud Gandhis and Nehurus.

India was poorly managed  but China was equally poorly managed and till 1987 economies were comparable. But China started pulling away. All under "Vishudhh Congress"rule.

4. Unless Chinese economy shrinks, there is no official catching up because a 5% of 20 trillion is significantly higher than 7% of 3 trillion. So what is there to compare.

 

People opposing current regime forget that its current regime which has followed correct geopolitics and geo ecomic policies and hopefully that will get Indian economy to grow despite other economies (specially China) to go into shrink mode.

 

 

And Yes, Untill 2014 average Indian used to compare India with countries you mentioned. Average Indian has now come out of that mentality. India suddenly has a voice since 2014. Wait and watch what happens in next Modi sarkar

 

 

It's already been two terms.

 

Close to 10 years of rule - similar to Manmohan Singh rule.

 

China, Vietnam, Mexico, many South American nations like Brazil, Chile etc. Have had tremendous prosperity during this time uplifting the middle class.

 

In that time frame of last 10 years there has been insane money printing across Europe and Americas making all assets everywhere go up. I.e. money has become less valuable and assets have become more valuable.

 

The Indian rupee has become less valuable against the dollar in this backdrop whole Modi claimed his Make in India campaign will make rupee stronger at 50 rupees. Never happened.

 

The point here is, the income inequality has gotten so much worse than ever before. 

 

With power concentrated in the hands of Adani at the level it is, you will have rampant mismanagement. He should have never been given ability to buy up Airports which he had no experience in managing and changing of laws to make him purchase them.

 

Similarly, Reliance should not have been given free hand in virtually monopolizing Oil, cell phone and now supermarkets.

 

This eliminates the ability for small businesses to compete and thrive as they will be destroyed due to economies of scale.

 

Even countries like Vietnam, Mexico and China know this and have laws that prevent such accumulation and concentration of power.

 

The problem with current government compared to the previous ones is that any such discussion is quashed as anti-national leaving no room for debate.

 

The fact that Vijay Mallya, Adani and other scandals are exposed by outside Indian sources is all we need to know about censorship and corporate media ownership.

 

If you allow a few business people to buy up all the resources, you will have zero motivation for the next generation to want to innovate or try as the rules are stacked against their favor.

 

You mention PV Narsimha Rao but forget that we are making the same mistakes of the License Raj in the past in the guise of nationalism. 

[diga]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/hindenburg-2-0-george-soros-backed-group-plans-expose-on-indian-firms-report-101692897468703.html

 

Those who want to earn some moolah can wait for OCCRP report from Soros group & short Adani stocks :) You can mint millions 

[mishra]

On 8/22/2023 at 8:09 PM, BlueBlood said:

It's already been two terms.

 

Close to 10 years of rule - similar to Manmohan Singh rule.

 

China, Vietnam, Mexico, many South American nations like Brazil, Chile etc. Have had tremendous prosperity during this time uplifting the middle class.

 

In that time frame of last 10 years there has been insane money printing across Europe and Americas making all assets everywhere go up. I.e. money has become less valuable and assets have become more valuable.

 

The Indian rupee has become less valuable against the dollar in this backdrop whole Modi claimed his Make in India campaign will make rupee stronger at 50 rupees. Never happened.

 

The point here is, the income inequality has gotten so much worse than ever before. 

 

With power concentrated in the hands of Adani at the level it is, you will have rampant mismanagement. He should have never been given ability to buy up Airports which he had no experience in managing and changing of laws to make him purchase them.

 

Similarly, Reliance should not have been given free hand in virtually monopolizing Oil, cell phone and now supermarkets.

 

This eliminates the ability for small businesses to compete and thrive as they will be destroyed due to economies of scale.

 

Even countries like Vietnam, Mexico and China know this and have laws that prevent such accumulation and concentration of power.

 

The problem with current government compared to the previous ones is that any such discussion is quashed as anti-national leaving no room for debate.

 

The fact that Vijay Mallya, Adani and other scandals are exposed by outside Indian sources is all we need to know about censorship and corporate media ownership.

 

If you allow a few business people to buy up all the resources, you will have zero motivation for the next generation to want to innovate or try as the rules are stacked against their favor.

 

You mention PV Narsimha Rao but forget that we are making the same mistakes of the License Raj in the past in the guise of nationalism. 

See, points you are making is very generic and true for every country irrespective of time and will remain true and its gets further support by skewed data and ranking by rich corporates. Reliance group is $220Billion so a 6-7% growth will mean they will add $15 bilion next year to their net worth. No government can stop that. Period.

 

However if one uses common sense they will have to see other data. For example social mobilty. Now this data is also subjective and gets muddled with agenda of ones financing the data collection and reporting. But you can have some indiacations.

 

So next moove on to hard factual data. For me a key data is about unicorn count. India now has over 100+ unicorns (last time when i checked it was 89) worth $300+ billion and in my opinion unicorn count is key indicator. We have a lot of catch up to do and We must strive to achive 10-20% increase in unicorn count Year on Year.

 

Your claim regarding disinvestment and licese falls flat wrt data check below graph.  IMO disnvestment in LIC, SBI, Indian Railways and Air India should have been done way before 2014. GoI must let busisnesses run by businessmen.

 

Before you claim something as truth rely on hard facts to find the truth and not other way round

[mishra]

@BlueBlood

 

I googled a bit. This came as up unicorn

https://www.investindia.gov.in/indian-unicorn-landscape

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unicorn_startup_companies

Currently India has 109, Chin has over 302 and US has over 600.

 

As i posted earlier, Our unicorn count and value must increase by 10-20% YoY while China must remain stagnant tille we reach say a count of 250+ while China should reach about 400 for us to think about competing with Chinese in any spehere, be it border, be it sea, be it gdp wise, be it power/influence wise.

 

Why reaching unicorn level is key?

 

Just check the growth of TCS/WIPRO/Infy and so on in last 20 years. Thats what a billion dollar networth company brings to table

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by mishra