Lack of players who bring diverse skillsets is killing our LOI cricket!

[Majestic]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Who has it, let me get your thought first.

What is there to give a thought?

 

Raina and Yuvi were part timers. Pandya and Jadeja are more proficient bowlers.

[Sooda]

5 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Are there personnel in List A we can use to follow a similar template? Discuss 

 

 

 

IMHO Riyan Parag, Rahul Tewatia sooner rather than later... middler and lower middle order bats who can bowl leg spin , rare thing. Parag especially exciting young player. Abhishek Sharma is another with potential, left arm spin bowling top order bat but needs to be more consistent.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

What is there to give a thought?

 

Raina and Yuvi were part timers. Pandya and Jadeja are more proficient bowlers.

That is why I said this India team is very balanced.

 

But Yuvi was anything but part time in 2011.He took 15 wickets which was better than Bhajji.He was the second best bowler for India behind Zak.

 

Pandya for all his histrionics never raised his level like Yuvi in any world tournament.That is one of main reasons why India has not won anything.

Edited March 20, 2023 by putrevus

[zen]

For clarity, will list out a few basics:

 

First, teams are not selected based on making L-R combinations but based on what the talent pool has to offer. An L-R combination can be done after picking the optimized squad. If your best batsmen are right (or left) handers, a team has to go with those. 

 

Second, because of how cricket has evolved (including the presence of sophisticated big hitters and improved batting depth, changes in rules - two new balls, field restrictions, DRS, etc.), the role of part-timers could be limited. 

 

Third, India does have a talent pool of players that can bat + bowl (many posters can provide a decent list). However, they need to do well in tournaments like IPL, where they get opportunities to showcase their talent by playing among both India's national players & top overseas players (luckily, they also play in familiar conditions in India apart from when the tourney is moved elsewhere). Once the talent pool is identified, it needs to be given further opportunities in bilateral (However, bilateral are probably utilized by many of those playing cricket since 2007-2009 to stats pad and shut others out). In the world cup year, new players will not get too many opportunities as the TM (conveniently?) wants to try out players from a select pool of 20 or so players. 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by zen

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Sooda said:

There have been times over the years when this could have been done, like in/vs Bangladesh but I dont think the selectors can be blamed entirely for this, there is no one else atm: the younger bowlers with any potential are injured- Prasidh, Sen, Dayal... all of these guys made it to LOI squads at least. 

 

Yeah, that's a sad situation that most of them are freakishly injured. But we still have fast bowlers like Akashdeep who are bowling quick and could have been considered, selectors are supposed to watch the players from the entire country instead of choosing based on domestic stats.

There are likes of Purnank Tyagi who picked up a 7fer and 6 fer, in the U-23 and U-25 tournaments. But I doubt any of our selectors will even look at their performance.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Yeah, that's a sad situation that most of them are freakishly injured. But we still have fast bowlers like Akashdeep who are bowling quick and could have been considered, selectors are supposed to watch the players from the entire country instead of choosing based on domestic stats.

There are likes of Purnank Tyagi who picked up a 7fer and 6 fer, in the U-23 and U-25 tournaments. But I doubt any of our selectors will even look at their performance.

Are those picked by any IPL team?

[singhvivek141]

45 minutes ago, zen said:

For clarity, will list out a few basics:

 

First, teams are not selected based on making L-R combinations but based on what the talent pool has to offer. An L-R combination can be done after picking the optimized squad. If your best batsmen are right (or left) handers, a team has to go with those. 

 

Second, because of how cricket has evolved (including the presence of sophisticated big hitters and improved batting depth, changes in rules - two new balls, field restrictions, DRS, etc.), the role of part-timers could be limited. 

 

Third, India does have a talent pool of players that can bat + bowl (many posters can provide a decent list). However, they need to do well in tournaments like IPL, where they get opportunities to showcase their talent by playing among both India's national players & top overseas players (luckily, they also play in familiar conditions in India apart from when the tourney is moved elsewhere). Once the talent pool is identified, it needs to be given further opportunities in bilateral (However, bilateral are probably utilized by many of those playing cricket since 2007-2009 to stats pad and shut others out). In the world cup year, new players will not get too many opportunities as the TM (conveniently?) wants to try out players from a select pool of 20 or so players. 

 

 

Bhai, TBH...every year these days is either T20 WC, ODI WC or a WTC...and you are very well aware how performer in one format become automatic choice for other formats as well. This leads of likes of Shami and Umesh playing in T20 WC straight away despite of not being in the T20 scheme of things for ages. 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Are those picked by any IPL team?

Akash deep is with RCB....he has played decent amount of games last year.
Purnank Tyagi, no. He is skillful like Kartik but slightly slower. Even Sushant Mishra has no buyers in IPL.

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Akash deep is with RCB....he has played decent amount of games last year.
Purnank Tyagi, no. He is skillful like Kartik but slightly slower. Even Sushant Mishra has no buyers in IPL.

Would you chose either of them ahead of say Shami or even Umesh?

[singhvivek141]

12 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Would you chose either of them ahead of say Shami or even Umesh?

I would choose them ahead of Unadkut or Mavi or Mukesh Kumar, you can play one young bowler alongside 1 senior pacer. We could have tried them in Bangladesh instead.
Umesh I like a lot but he won't stay for long, same goes for Shami who shouldn't play all 3 formats.
 

[Mariyam]

We are so winning this WC. We have players with diverse skills.

 

Ro Sha: Binging on a buffet

Kohli: Virtue signalling his way to a 100m on Instagram.

K L: Marrying right. Contorting into a sad puppy face.

Gill: Matching his hair colour with his skin tone.

Shreyas Iyer: Dance reels

Pandya: Politically correct interviews on Talk shows.

Pant: Cautious driving

Shami: sexting girls a day before a game. Age fudging

Bumrah: Getting injured whenever the team needs him

Saini: Mastered the art of fading into oblivion

Chahal: Maintaining his bowling average of 70+ runs in 10 overs. And his physique. I'm jealous.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

You allowance will not work now.

 

It is stupidity to go with just five bowlers for a match these days.You need 6 bowlers for sure.Pandya does not bowl his 10 overs every match.So you need to account for it.

 

Back then you could play 7 batsmen.Now you cannot play more than 4 batsmen plus WK .

 

If you closely look at 2011 team again it was 4 batsmen plus Wk plus 2 allrounders (Yuvraj and Raina).

 

Bowlers did their job that is why India won, it is not like with 7 batsmen they outbatted every other team then.
 

Batsmen and allrounders have to do the job of scoring runs even now.

 

2019 no one talks about Dhawan's injury but that was one of major factor for India not winning it all.

It will definitely work. And it has worked for sure. These conditions were present for the last 2 World Cups.

 

Australia won in 2015 with 3 bowlers + Faulkner + Maxwell + Watson. 

 

England won with 5 bowlers + Stokes being 6th bowler and bowling 3, 4 overs when required.  Stokes is primarily a batter in LOIs. 

 

There is no evidence that a team has to play 6 bowlers for balance

[Nikhil_cric]

6 hours ago, Sooda said:

 

IMHO Riyan Parag, Rahul Tewatia sooner rather than later... middler and lower middle order bats who can bowl leg spin , rare thing. Parag especially exciting young player. Abhishek Sharma is another with potential, left arm spin bowling top order bat but needs to be more consistent.

Tewatia has very impressive numbers

[putrevus]

26 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It will definitely work. And it has worked for sure. These conditions were present for the last 2 World Cups.

 

Australia won in 2015 with 3 bowlers + Faulkner + Maxwell + Watson. 

 

England won with 5 bowlers + Stokes being 6th bowler and bowling 3, 4 overs when required.  Stokes is primarily a batter in LOIs. 

 

There is no evidence that a team has to play 6 bowlers for balance

Who said we are  playing with 6 bowlers. We are playing also playing 3 bowlers +Pandya+Jadeja+Axar/Sundar/Thakur

 

2019 we played with just five bowlers . We needed that extra fast bowler Shami who could have won the match.Chahal and Pandya had to bowl their ten overs each with out doing any damage.

 

6th bowling option gives captain wiggle room in case a bowler is having a bad day.In

 

That is why this 2023 team is much more balanced than that 2019 team. 

 

2011 part timer like Yuvraj and Raina could work but it won't work now.

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by putrevus

[tapandrun]

del.

Edited March 20, 2023 by tapandrun

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Mariyam said:

We are so winning this WC. We have players with diverse skills.

 

Ro Sha: Binging on a buffet

Kohli: Virtue signalling his way to a 100m on Instagram.

K L: Marrying right. Contorting into a sad puppy face.

Gill: Matching his hair colour with his skin tone.

Shreyas Iyer: Dance reels

Pandya: Politically correct interviews on Talk shows.

Pant: Cautious driving

Shami: sexting girls a day before a game. Age fudging

Bumrah: Getting injured whenever the team needs him

Saini: Mastered the art of fading into oblivion

Chahal: Maintaining his bowling average of 70+ runs in 10 overs. And his physique. I'm jealous.

 

excellent team. this is why we will smash all teams and win without dropping a single match

[rollingstoned]

7 hours ago, putrevus said:

Who said we are  playing with 6 bowlers. We are playing also playing 3 bowlers +Pandya+Jadeja+Axar/Sundar/Thakur

 

2019 we played with just five bowlers . We needed that extra fast bowler Shami who could have won the match.Chahal and Pandya had to bowl their ten overs each with out doing any damage.

 

6th bowling option gives captain wiggle room in case a bowler is having a bad day.In

 

That is why this 2023 team is much more balanced than that 2019 team. 

 

2011 part timer like Yuvraj and Raina could work but it won't work now.

 

In 2019 we picked Vijay Shankar and Jadhav for balance but they did not bowl all that much. Shankar bowled in that Pakistan game while Jadhavs overs were not needed because of Kulcha. 

[Nikhil_cric]

A player like Aiden Markram is exactly what India is missing. Superb bowling today as a 6th bowler

[waga]

23 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Another thing which we're missing in our cricket is incapability to counter left arm swing.

From the time we had a right hand dominant batting order, how many times left arm pacers have blown us away...Amir, Shaheen, Boult, Starc, Junaid...there are numerous examples. Inspite of that, after Dhawan we have rarely played a stable left handed batter at the top. Ishan Kishan is the only one who played sporadically but he has weakness against any kind of movement so he's not that much of an upgrade.

Kohli Rohit KL's weakness against left arm swing means we effectively have 3 duds in the top order who won't be able to do anything under bowling favourable conditions. They need flatter tracks to survive the late movement and then only they will be able to contribute...with such a persistent "?" mark how can we expect our LOI team to perform in all conditions...add to that the pressure of knock out games and we're a toast.

 

 

left arm batters are actually more vulnerable to left arm fast bowlers, its not like left vs right hand batsmen and finger spinners  

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

In 2019 we picked Vijay Shankar and Jadhav for balance but they did not bowl all that much. Shankar bowled in that Pakistan game while Jadhavs overs were not needed because of Kulcha. 

Injuries to him and Dhawan were also reasons why we lost.He would have been a upgrade over that useless guy DK. He would have bowled few over when Chahal or Pandya could not do much.

 

Jadhav was poor man's Raina in bowling.he was pretty much done as player much before that world cup.Dhoni and his batting against England was beyond pathetic.

Edited March 21, 2023 by putrevus