What do modern players have to do to match Viv Richards in ODIs?

[vvvslaxman]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:52 PM, Vijy said:

richards had the power of symonds/klusener (very underrated ODI bats), the innovation of ABDV, the consistency of Brat, and the technical solidity of Tendu.

 

The GOAT ODI batter although not by as big a margin as some may claim.

 

 

You have to look at the three as a combo/ Greenidge/Haynes/Richards. back then it was customary to start slowly otherwise Greenidge could be equally destructive. That is why he had lower strike rate.

 

Those three have played 97 matches together. All of them scored over 3000 runs. No team had a top 3 like them. 

 

[Vijy]

23 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

AB De Villiers is the limit.

Can't beat 53/101 in any era.

Only major batsman with better strike rate is Buttler and look at the average difference. Viv Richards wouldn't have done any better today. 

richards absolutely beat that combo. he had 47/90 in an era when most decent/good bats had 30/60.

 

in ABDV's time, there were players like trott averaging 50+ and others like sehwag scoring at 100+. I would say the expectation for good bats in ABDV's time would be 35/80.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Vijy

[AKane]

20 hours ago, Vijy said:

richards absolutely beat that combo. he had 47/90 in an era when most decent/good bats had 30/60.

One thing must be said - WI were a great test team in 1980's but after 1979 in ODIs they have done nothing of note. They lost the finals in 1983 and did not even make the semis in 1987. They were contenders but did not play any final in 90's and after that they have slid into ignominy.

 

Richards had the individual records(but as was said for SRT... individual records mean nothing)  because he practiced against great net fast bowlers and faced middling attacks in 1980's BUT he was part of the 1980's WI ODI  teams that categorically failed at the WC. Finally the team results matter in a team sport and Richards and WI have failed since 1979 in ODIs.

Edited April 6, 2023 by AKane

[Nikola]

Abe ye kya update kar diya website ko? Can't post comment or create new thread. Fix asap. Edit: No, you can't comment yet. I used trick to post & edit this comment. Edited April 7, 2023 by Nikola

[Chakdephatte]

On 4/5/2023 at 11:55 PM, Vijy said:

richards absolutely beat that combo. he had 47/90 in an era when most decent/good bats had 30/60.

 

in ABDV's time, there were players like trott averaging 50+ and others like sehwag scoring at 100+. I would say the expectation for good bats in ABDV's time would be 35/80.

 

And why do you think it would grow linearly if he were playing today.

 

As the average strike rate for an era increases, the gap between the strike rate of top players and average players is bound to decrease. 53/101 is the best combination anyone has achieved so far.

[zen]

On 4/6/2023 at 10:38 AM, AKane said:

Finally the team results matter in a team sport and Richards and WI have failed since 1979 in ODIs.

If winning 2 out of 4 world cups, while being in the final of one is a failure, then I don’t know where other teams (apart from Aus) stand 

Edited April 10, 2023 by zen

[AKane]

29 minutes ago, zen said:

If winning 2 out of 4 world cups, while being in the final of one is a failure, then I don’t know where other teams (apart from Aus) stand 

"Since 1979" .... they have lost 1 final in 1983.

 

India has won 2 and lost 1 final.

Pak has won 1 and lost 1 final.

SL has won 1 and lost 1 final.

Eng has won 1 and lost 2 finals.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by AKane

[zen]

8 minutes ago, AKane said:

"Since 1979" .... they have lost 1 final.

 

India has won 2 and lost 1 final.

Pak has won 1 and lost 1 final.

SL has won 1 and lost 1 final.

Eng has won 1 and lost 2 finals.

 

Aren’t you talking about the WI team of 1975-87 w/ Richards? It was the most successful ODI team in terms of WC, along with appearances in the final, titles till that point. 
 

PS WI of that period and Aus of 1999-2007 are considered top tier. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by zen

[AKane]

As far as ABDV being an alternative to Viv - Adam Craig Gilchrist was better than both on the big stage in WC finals.

 

Gilchrist 54 off 36 balls vs Pak in 1999  

Gilchrist 57 off 48 balls vs Ind in 2003  

Gilchrist 149 off of 104 balls vs SL in 2007

 

compare with Viv

 

Viv 5 off 11 balls vs Aus in 1975 

Viv 138* off 157 balls vs Eng in 1979

Viv 33 off 28 balls vs Ind in 1983

Edited April 10, 2023 by AKane

[AKane]

31 minutes ago, zen said:

Aren’t you talking about the WI team of 1975-87 w/ Richards?

I said "after 1979"......"since 1979"..... 

Edited April 10, 2023 by AKane

[Laaloo]

Testing

[Laaloo]

Testing

[Vijy]

19 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

And why do you think it would grow linearly if he were playing today.

 

As the average strike rate for an era increases, the gap between the strike rate of top players and average players is bound to decrease. 53/101 is the best combination anyone has achieved so far.

doesn't matter to me whether it grows linearly or otherwise. Viv could have easily translated his 47/90 combo to 55+ avg at 110+ SR. there were things such as no helmets, 6 bouncers per over allowed, not mastering art of ODI batting, etc. with all these factors accounted for, I am sure he would be the most impactful batter of the modern era as well

[Chakdephatte]

17 hours ago, Vijy said:

doesn't matter to me whether it grows linearly or otherwise. Viv could have easily translated his 47/90 combo to 55+ avg at 110+ SR. there were things such as no helmets, 6 bouncers per over allowed, not mastering art of ODI batting, etc. with all these factors accounted for, I am sure he would be the most impactful batter of the modern era as well

 

There is a physical limit to what you can get. On paper, his numbers may translate to 120 strike rate in today's era, but even Buttler has touched it so far. I don't know if you have watched both bat, I have watched only highlights of his batting and can tell you ABD was a more complete batsman.

 

He was ahead of his contemporaries, but those contemporaries were mostly batting in test style. I guess they were good enough to get runs quicker but nobody took ODI was not the go to format back then. For the same reason, he will have a bigger legacy than anyone but best batsman has many nominees. I see greater and better as two distinct terms.

[Vancouver]

Stats aside, I saw Kevin Pietersen to be closest to Viv in modern era. 

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

There is a physical limit to what you can get. On paper, his numbers may translate to 120 strike rate in today's era, but even Buttler has touched it so far. I don't know if you have watched both bat, I have watched only highlights of his batting and can tell you ABD was a more complete batsman.

 

He was ahead of his contemporaries, but those contemporaries were mostly batting in test style. I guess they were good enough to get runs quicker but nobody took ODI was not the go to format back then. For the same reason, he will have a bigger legacy than anyone but best batsman has many nominees. I see greater and better as two distinct terms.

yes, I have watched both bat. and the reasons I gave you are not about contemporaries alone. Let me quote again: "there were things such as no helmets, 6 bouncers per over allowed, not mastering art of ODI batting". I am quite sure that Viv could score at 105-110 SR and also average 55+. in fact, until he got old and unmotivated, his ODI record was closer to 50 avg and 90+ SR.

 

Put ABDV in a new format at int'l level (much like how ODIs were new in Viv's time), and we have already seen what happens... a mediocre T20I record (not talking about franchises, where there are weak bowling links).

 

One thing I have learnt is very simple: no one on the Internet will change their position, no matter what stats or reasons one gives them. So, you can continue to believe what you wish, and I will continue to do the same.

[AnkurUpadhyay]

Viv was ahead of his time and there was no one comparable. But we also need to be cognizant of the fact that he played in an all time great team with great openers preceding him. Also, best bowlers of that era were playing for his team. 60 overs also provided more opportunities to increase his average. And he was not the only one new to ODIs during that time. Everyone else was as well and bowlers were also figuring out the correct way to bowl in LOIs. His natural style of play was just more suited to LOIs than most other players of that era and that aided his transition. Similarly, Sehwag/Gilli would have been GOAT IPL players if IPL started in 2000 instead of 2008 for the same reason. Their natural style of play fits perfectly with how T20 is played. Can’t say the same for most other players. Its just unfortunate that they were on the decline when IPL arrived.

[Stuge]

Viv Richards is widely regarded as one of the greatest batsmen in the history of One Day International (ODI) cricket. To match his achievements, modern players would need to demonstrate exceptional skills and consistently perform at a high level. Here are some key areas that modern players would need to focus on to match Viv Richards in ODIs:

 

1.Batting Average: Viv Richards had an impressive batting average of 47.00 in ODIs. Modern players would need to maintain a similar batting average or even exceed it to be considered on par with Richards. Consistency in converting starts into big scores and the ability to perform under pressure would be crucial.

 

2.Strike Rate: Viv Richards was known for his aggressive batting style and had a career strike rate of 90.20 in ODIs, which was exceptional during his time. Modern players would need to display a similar ability to score at a brisk rate, especially in the middle overs and towards the end of the innings, to match Richards' strike rate.

 

3.Impactful Innings: Viv Richards was known for his ability to play match-winning innings and take the game away from the opposition. Modern players would need to have a similar impact on games by playing crucial innings in high-pressure situations, and consistently contributing to their team's victories.

 

4.Versatility: Viv Richards was known for his versatility as a batsman, being equally effective in all formats of the game. Modern players would need to demonstrate similar adaptability by performing well in different conditions, against various bowling attacks, and in different match situations, including chasing targets and setting them.

 

5.Leadership: Viv Richards was also a successful captain who led the West Indies team to many victories. Modern players who aspire to match his achievements would need to showcase leadership skills, both on and off the field, and contribute to the success of their team as a leader.

 

6.mpact on the Game: Viv Richards was known for his aggressive and fearless approach towards the game, which often had a psychological impact on the opposition. Modern players would need to have a similar impact on the game through their aggressive and proactive approach, motivating their team and intimidating the opposition.

 

7.Consistency: Viv Richards maintained a high level of performance throughout his career and was known for his consistency. Modern players would need to display similar consistency in their performances over a sustained period of time to match Richards' longevity and impact in ODIs.

 

It's important to note that cricket has evolved over the years, and the standards of the game have also changed. However, to match the legendary status of Viv Richards in ODIs, modern players would need to excel in these key areas and make a significant impact on the game consistently over a long period of time.