BJP completes 9 years in centre - how have they performed?

[coffee_rules]

17 hours ago, bharathh said:

 

Clearly another person that didn't bother to understand the farm laws 

 

Not surprising. 

 

You do know that the farm laws did not do away with MSP. It just gave actual farmers the right to establish deals with anyone of their choosing and not have to go through the local mandis right? 

 

The us vs them is clearly apparent. You don't like this govt so you just say anything even if it an untruth just because the current govt proposed it. 

 

The number of people on this forum that indulge in us vs them but consider themselves morally superior despite being uninformed, wrong and petty is just hilarious. 

 

Anyways this forum wouldn't have appeal if everyone thought the same. So lage raho.

The amount of othering these people do and they complain about Us vs Them happening here. They come up with no facts, just spewing rhetoric is nothing bul verbal diarrhea 

[diga]

2 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

The fact that not a single person was swayed on either side of the argument is exactly what's wrong with the country.

 

People have made a decision to support their political party based on religion, region, caste, or some other equation.

 

Nothing will change.

 

The only voter block who will change their votes are struggling to survive daily and have no time to come on message boards to argue.

 

This is why it's a futile attempt and a waste of time.

Nobody will vote for your favourite party because you say so... Whenever a country veers off its course, a course correction is required. We had 50+ years of one party rule and the results are there for everyone to see. Don't think BJP has done badly in it's 10 years. Currently I vote for party which will protect the integrity of this country better and which is lesser of the evil in the current times

[Nikhil_cric]

23 hours ago, bharathh said:

 

Clearly another person that didn't bother to understand the farm laws 

 

Not surprising. 

 

You do know that the farm laws did not do away with MSP. It just gave actual farmers the right to establish deals with anyone of their choosing and not have to go through the local mandis right? 

 

The us vs them is clearly apparent. You don't like this govt so you just say anything even if it an untruth just because the current govt proposed it. 

 

The number of people on this forum that indulge in us vs them but consider themselves morally superior despite being uninformed, wrong and petty is just hilarious. 

 

Anyways this forum wouldn't have appeal if everyone thought the same. So lage raho.

I despise everything the current government stands for. No doubt about it. But this is a matter of policy and I'd be against any political party that pushes this  

[bharathh]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I despise everything the current government stands for. No doubt about it. But this is a matter of policy and I'd be against any political party that pushes this  

But what you said in the earlier post was untrue. 

 

What in particular did you have an issue with? 

[Nikhil_cric]

2 minutes ago, bharathh said:

But what you said in the earlier post was untrue. 

 

What in particular did you have an issue with? 

There was no legal guarantee for MSP in the farm laws that the government was trying to push. What is untrue about that? 

[bharathh]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

There was no legal guarantee for MSP in the farm laws that the government was trying to push. What is untrue about that? 

 

We have never had one. So what changed? 

[coffee_rules]

8 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I despise everything the current government stands for. No doubt about it. But this is a matter of policy and I'd be against any political party that pushes this  

One has to be objective, can’t have everything opposed based on party affiliations. Farm laws were in every party manifesto and based on some rich farmers in 2 states, the whole protests were triggered. MSP is not a law even now, it is based on current state and region. It would have helped farmers to get a price from various buyers, a pure market, instead of a monopoly of middlemen as now. 

[someone]

It's so obvious that many posters sole agenda is pessimism. That's easy to spread and sell.

 

Of course, the country has many problems, but one votes can what side can offer, their CV, and track record. That's where BJP is relatively better than the opposition today. They have their report card, and pro-voters.  That can't be said about the opposition today as they have a big zero.  For BJP, their pro-reasons includes resolving some long standing demands and issues, various completed and under completion projects, new schemes, and huge reachout to negligible parts of the country. 

[Nikhil_cric]

15 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

One has to be objective, can’t have everything opposed based on party affiliations. Farm laws were in every party manifesto and based on some rich farmers in 2 states, the whole protests were triggered. MSP is not a law even now, it is based on current state and region. It would have helped farmers to get a price from various buyers, a pure market, instead of a monopoly of middlemen as now. 

I am being objective. I am opposed to any party that will push farm Reforms without ensuring MSP in the laws. 

 

Throwing open our agricultural produce to the private sector would result in a few big private players and the resulting oligopsony would result in sharply reduced prices.   

 

And the so called rich farmers on average earn only 23,000 per month even in Punjab and Haryana where they sell primarily to APMC's.

 

 

[bharathh]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I am being objective. I am opposed to any party that will push farm Reforms without ensuring MSP in the laws. 

 

Throwing open our agricultural produce to the private sector would result in a few big private players and the resulting oligopsony would result in sharply reduced prices.   

 

And the so called rich farmers on average earn only 23,000 per month even in Punjab and Haryana where they sell primarily to APMC's.

 

 

 

 

And are you ok with bankrupting the country by buying produce that it doesn't need nor can do anything with? You are ok with middlemen who can dictate what a farmer can produce and how much he/she receives for her produce. You do understand that the farmers don't get MSP with the current setup either? They can't even find another buyer from another part of the country willing to pay more for their produce because they are only forced to sell through their local mandis. 

 

The same local mandis are power centers for political parties who can dictate terms to farmers bending them to their will. I suppose all that is ok though? 

[bharathh]

Sums up my issue with the opposition today pretty well
 

 

[bharathh]

38 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Interesting read regarding the shady Bajpa's dubious farm laws....Trust was one of the core reasons, no way the farmers trust these corrupt politicians....rightly so 

 

Just look at these asshole politician antics in the recent events happening in the country.

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/indias-farm-laws-are-a-global-problem/

 

 

 

So the farmers don't trust the government. Yet the farmers are required to sell thru government mandis run by local politicians at a government-allocated price called MSP.

 

The farmers don't trust the government to allow to allow the farmers to figure out who they should sell to for themselves. Yet, they trust the government to run the mandis and set the MSP at a fair price? This despite the fact that the farmers don't often get the MSP as they have to pay the middlemen and do not have a respite to sell their goods elsewhere if they don't get what they are looking for. In fact, they cannot even change the crops they grow because the mandi aka government dictates what sells and does not sell.

 

What kind of circular logic is this? 

[diga]

9 minutes ago, bharathh said:

 

So the farmers don't trust the government. Yet the farmers are required to sell thru government mandis run by local politicians at a government-allocated price called MSP.

 

The farmers don't trust the government to allow to allow the farmers to figure out who they should sell to for themselves. Yet, they trust the government to run the mandis and set the MSP at a fair price? This despite the fact that the farmers don't often get the MSP as they have to pay the middlemen and do not have a respite to sell their goods elsewhere if they don't get what they are looking for. In fact, they cannot even change the crops they grow because the mandi aka government dictates what sells and does not sell.

 

What kind of circular logic is this? 

Not sure why , but there hardly any farmer protests in South India 

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, bharathh said:

 

 

And are you ok with bankrupting the country by buying produce that it doesn't need nor can do anything with? You are ok with middlemen who can dictate what a farmer can produce and how much he/she receives for her produce. You do understand that the farmers don't get MSP with the current setup either? They can't even find another buyer from another part of the country willing to pay more for their produce because they are only forced to sell through their local mandis. 

 

The same local mandis are power centers for political parties who can dictate terms to farmers bending them to their will. I suppose all that is ok though? 

Do you have any data to show that the country will get bankrupt? Farmers do get MSP in the states where access to APMC's is easier - Punjab and Haryana for instance.  In states like Bihar where the BJP JDU combine got rid of them, of course they don't get MSP and are left to the mercy of local traders etc.  

 

And do you really think these farmers are going to get good bargains once big private players enter the market when they can't even get from small private traders? That's laughable to be honest.

 

The only survey done in recent times - circa 2013 - showed that those farmers who were able to sell to APMC's were happier with their bargains than those who could only sell to their local traders and the former had more capital to reinvest in terms of tools/seeds etc.  The system needs to be deepened in every state and in fact, MSP should be offered to a greater variety of crops like pulses in which we are deficient so that farmers have incentives not just to grow grain but also pulses and other vegetables. 

 

Modi government has not taken any survey of the sort and is winging it - with pressure from WTO etc. There is a food crisis that is going on in many parts of the world and food security is going to be an issue in the future and India is definitely at risk especially with the increasing temperatures.

 

Leave it to the private sector and soon they will dictate what to grow and that's a  risk we simply cannot take imho.

 

To those who are saying there were no protests in South India, you are wrong.

 

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/farmers-protests-not-limited-delhi-south-indian-farmers-oppose-union-govt-claim-141350

 

There were plenty of protests here. Traditionally, the farming land in Karnataka was only for those who came from traditional farming families - Our family tried to buy back in the early 00's.  But around the time these laws were being pushed, the BJP state government tried to change it .  Only reason the protests did not make television  is its a little difficult even for the saffron media to paint Vokkaliga farmers as Khalistanis - where's the fun and TRP's in that ?

[diga]

2 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

 

To those who are saying there were no protests in South India, you are wrong.

 

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/farmers-protests-not-limited-delhi-south-indian-farmers-oppose-union-govt-claim-141350

 

There were plenty of protests here. Traditionally, the farming land in Karnataka was only for those who came from traditional farming families - Our family tried to buy back in the early 00's.  But around the time these laws were being pushed, the BJP state government tried to change it .  Only reason the protests did not make television  is its a little difficult even for the saffron media to paint Vokkaliga farmers as Khalistanis - where's the fun and TRP's in that ?

Not on the scale seen in Punjab... Just one swallow doesnt make a summer

[bharathh]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Do you have any data to show that the country will get bankrupt? Farmers do get MSP in the states where access to APMC's is easier - Punjab and Haryana for instance.  In states like Bihar where the BJP JDU combine got rid of them, of course they don't get MSP and are left to the mercy of local traders etc.  

 

And do you really think these farmers are going to get good bargains once big private players enter the market when they can't even get from small private traders? That's laughable to be honest.

 

The only survey done in recent times - circa 2013 - showed that those farmers who were able to sell to APMC's were happier with their bargains than those who could only sell to their local traders and the former had more capital to reinvest in terms of tools/seeds etc.  The system needs to be deepened in every state and in fact, MSP should be offered to a greater variety of crops like pulses in which we are deficient so that farmers have incentives not just to grow grain but also pulses and other vegetables. 

 

Modi government has not taken any survey of the sort and is winging it - with pressure from WTO etc. There is a food crisis that is going on in many parts of the world and food security is going to be an issue in the future and India is definitely at risk especially with the increasing temperatures.

 

Leave it to the private sector and soon they will dictate what to grow and that's a  risk we simply cannot take imho.

 

To those who are saying there were no protests in South India, you are wrong.

 

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/farmers-protests-not-limited-delhi-south-indian-farmers-oppose-union-govt-claim-141350

 

There were plenty of protests here. Traditionally, the farming land in Karnataka was only for those who came from traditional farming families - Our family tried to buy back in the early 00's.  But around the time these laws were being pushed, the BJP state government tried to change it .  Only reason the protests did not make television  is its a little difficult even for the saffron media to paint Vokkaliga farmers as Khalistanis - where's the fun and TRP's in that ?

 

Please use the internet. It is your friend

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/guaranteed-msp-will-claim-half-the-budget/article33357330.ece

 

I had suggested this for another esteemed member earlier. Here is some required reading you as well I see. 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by bharathh

[coffee_rules]

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

 

The only major change now from before is the complete media blackout as corporations own the entire media and the government is openly arresting youtubers and Twitter posters if they post anything against them.

 

Please name some Toutubers and Twitter users jailed for criticizing GoI or BJP. I can name a few in WB , Bihar , MH under MVA and now in Karnataka who were punished for criticizing the state governments. Those who are jailed are for sedition (Umar Khalid etc). You can’t speak rhetorically like a politician. 

 

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

We saw that with the media coverage during Hindenburg vs. ADANI and now Byju's. Complete media blackout during Adani mess but complete media meltdown vs. Byju's.

How come we got to read about all these with complete media blackout? 
 

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

This was not the case during Congress rule.
 

During 10 years of UPA , all we read about was scams. Also, some journalists like Kanchan Gupta and Shiv zaroor were censured by the government . Remember the Anna Hazare movement started in UPA-II and we got the evil AAP government for that.

 

 

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

I

 

Laws get changed on the whim of Adani and Ambani. This has put so much power in the hands of corporations that it will take a generation for things to reset. Instead of fighting over this very important case...

 

Which laws were sponsored by corporations ? 

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

We are still arguing over religion or regionalism. This is where BJP has succeeded tremendously and will always succeed as long as they have media backing them.

 

Media backing can’t win elec as proven in 2004 and 2014 (when UPA lost). It is not media, but people vote and people voted against incumbent. It’s not like BJP is winning all elections. Like Raj, MP, HP, Karnataka , Delhi etc despite the alleged media support. 

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

The farm laws had a clear edge that benefited Adani. But the case completely shifted from corporate control over setting MSP and farms to Anti-national and Khalistan movement. This was brilliant swaying of public opinion as no one would support government and corporates vs. Farmers unless nationalism and patriotism is brought in.

MSP was never abolished under farm laws, they wanted in writing and government did, also MSP was never a law even earlier or now. It is a local mandi decision. MSP is so lo in some mandis that farmers are destroying produce on streets in Punjab as well. Bigro ab! If Adani so bad, why are state governments of Raj, Chhattisgarh, WB and Kerala governments giving out contracts to Adani company?

 

 

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

The same happened when Hindenburg wrote against Adani, instead of investigating the issue, they played the same playback of anti-nationalism, colonialism etc.

 

Hindenburg is a short selling company making profits when a stock tanks, even US Govt will not investigate based Hindenburg reports. Also, please point to some Indian laws broken by Adani co . Don’t share some obscure YouTuber video.

 

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

It latches on to primitive and base nature of people to deflect the actual issue at large.

 

This is what I am saying. All politicians need is media and money and BJP has both in unlimited quantity. This is something no one can defeat.

 

I gave up long ago to convince people on this as they will then go back to their eco chamber media that will brainwash them again.

 

Similar to blaming Muslims for bringing COVID to India when it would have spread from any traveler. This is still entrenched in a lot of people's mind. It's hilarious but again once you bring it up, it rakes up emotions on a base level that is hard to debate or argue over. 

BJP mifght lose 2024 or in 2029 , but to defend UPA under Sonia , India was never that bad. 

[coffee_rules]

On 7/4/2023 at 1:50 AM, Nikhil_cric said:

I am being objective. I am opposed to any party that will push farm Reforms without ensuring MSP in the laws. 

 

Throwing open our agricultural produce to the private sector would result in a few big private players and the resulting oligopsony would result in sharply reduced prices.   

 

And the so called rich farmers on average earn only 23,000 per month even in Punjab and Haryana where they sell primarily to APMC's.

 

 

Privatization is a bogeyman for socialism, . With proper regulation, privatization is good for the producer. Govt should not run businesses but overlook them. The farm laws never proposed 100% privatization, just opened some sectors for private companies to help secure and distribute crops. 
 

The water table is reducing in Punjab by farmers growing crops like Wheat and Rice. It will affect farmers future anyway. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by coffee_rules

[diga]

26 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

BJP mifght lose 2024 or in 2029 , but to defend UPA under Sonia , India was never that bad. 

Is his moniker a Freudian slip?  Says more than it hides 

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, diga said:

Is his moniker a Freudian slip?  Says more than it hides 

Nah! There are such desis. I recently came across an acquaintance who wanted me to contribute to a INC NRI fund raiser.  I said when hell freezes over, I’ll do

Edited July 4, 2023 by coffee_rules