Steve Smith- the most clutch batsman in history?

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

I think pressure in knockouts individually is overrated unless a player is actually shivering and having a nervous breakdown. 
 

Mohinder Amarnath and Faulkner won man of the match for their bowling. Does it make them  clutch bowlers?

Sachin got out to Malinga in the final. Has Sachin never got out to Malinga cheaply  in a bilateral game before?

 

sometimes it’s your day it’s your day.

Yes as a team and team management  can take pressure and make wrong decisions but individually a person taking pressure just because it’s a knockout is a little exaggerated.

 

yes if it is a close  situation someone might choke and maybe knockouts can accentuate the pressure but it is not as big as it is made out to be when we call players chokers.

 

 

I already said Sachin was good enough.

 

However knockouts in undoubtedly a big occasion and some players let it get to them while others are able to handle it or even shine even more.

 

Biggest example is 2003 WC Finals. We played like champs till then but everybody choked that day. The body language was not right from first ball.

 

Players like Rohit/Kohli suddenly fail in knockouts.Its a pattern. Pressure can your reflexes a fraction of a second late and its enough.

 

Smith seems to relish these situations

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

I already said Sachin was good enough.

 

However knockouts in undoubtedly a big occasion and some players let it get to them while others are able to handle it or even shine even more.

 

Biggest example is 2003 WC Finals. We played like champs till then but everybody choked that day. The body language was not right from first ball.

 

Players like Rohit/Kohli suddenly fail in knockouts.Its a pattern. Pressure can your reflexes a fraction of a second late and its enough.

 

Smith seems to relish these situations

 

For some more than a second.

 

 

 

 

[Bigg Brother]

The guy didn't play IPL, came here without a fuss and scored century like anything. A bigger phainity is waiting for Anderson and co from 16th onwards. I think he is already the 2nd greatest Aussie after Don or is it debatable?

[Lord]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

For some more than a second.

 

 

 

 

 

just a normal inswinger. Made it look like a jaffa

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Bigg Brother said:

The guy didn't play IPL, came here without a fuss and scored century like anything. A bigger phainity is waiting for Anderson and co from 16th onwards. I think he is already the 2nd greatest Aussie after Don or is it debatable?

 

2nd greatest ever world over

[vvvslaxman]

My only complaint about Smith is he is freaking ugly to watch. Otherwise he is going to be no.2 pick for any ATG side.

[maniac]

28 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

My only complaint about Smith is he is freaking ugly to watch. Otherwise he is going to be no.2 pick for any ATG side.

Joe Root is the best among the fab 4 in terms of whom I enjoy watching bat across all 3 formats. Kohli is 2nd.

 

I will pick Smith over Williamson in LOIs because smith does have his own weird 360 game in LOIs.

[Nikola]

Edited June 8, 2023 by Nikola

[khadekhademaaro]

Steve Smith is by miles the best test batsman in these times. He constructs an innings which leaves a lasting impact on that match or even the series. I admire his batting.

[Vijy]

Stewie is beyond clutch. he is one of the greatest post WW2 batters. only 2-3 others come to mind - graeme pollock, sir Garry, and maybe one of weekes/barrington. barry was amazingly gritty, and a clutch overseas player.

[rtmohanlal]

I think this 'clutch' factor is a bit over rated in itself . This is because 'being clutch' depends on lots of factors.   For instance take this on going WTC final itself.  The match is going on in ENG  where  the current 'Indian top order'  has always been pedestrian . No one in this  batting line up  was having a decent record in ENG  till this match arrived.

Naturally Virat   who was always  being traditionally weak in ENG  couldn't feed off from  other prolific batsmen  .Secondly ,  team  AUS was always  going to have a huge advantage in ENG when compared to team  India because the conditions in AUS  are lot lot closer to  that of in ENG than that of India's .Thirdly the bowling strength of the 2 teams especially for ENG conditions  are chalk and cheese different. Pie chuckers & proven failures like Umesh Yadav was hardly going to be any factor in England . On the other hand Boland has been a 'duck into water' sort of selection for Aus  for these conditions.  Again  'pressure of expectations'  for Kohli was relatively  going to be higher when compared to Smith. Again , ENG has been Smith's most favourite  countries to score hugely .So it is  a no surprise for me seeing the Indian team  in this position now, even more so Kohli failing where as Smith thriving.

 

Precisely Smith has been more 'clutch' no doubt, but the merit  he deserves for that .... not so huge . Just my thoughts. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by rtmohanlal

[BlueBlood]

2 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

I think this 'clutch' factor is a bit over rated in itself . This is because 'being clutch' depends on lots of factors.   For instance take this on going WTC final itself.  The match is going on in ENG  where  the current 'Indian top order'  has always been pedestrian . No one in this  batting line up  was having a decent record in ENG  till this match arrived.

Naturally Virat   who was always  being traditionally weak in ENG  couldn't feed off from  other prolific batsmen  .Secondly ,  team  AUS was always  going to have a huge advantage in ENG when compared to team  India because the conditions in AUS  are lot lot closer to  that of in ENG than that of India's .Thirdly the bowling strength of the 2 teams especially for ENG conditions  are chalk and cheese different. Pie chuckers & proven failures like Umesh Yadav was hardly going to be any factor in England . On the other hand Boland has been a 'duck into water' sort of selection for Aus  for these conditions.  Again  'pressure of expectations'  for Kohli was relatively  going to be higher when compared to Smith. Again , ENG has been Smith's most favourite  countries to score hugely .So it is  a no surprise for me seeing the Indian team  in this position now, even more so Kohli failing where as Smith thriving.

 

Precisely Smith has been more 'clutch' no doubt, but the merit  he deserves for that .... not so huge . Just my thoughts. 

 

Australian conditions are a lot different from England.

 

England rewards swing bowlers while AUS is more seam + bounce.

 

Someone like McGrath / Hazlewood would do well in England. While someone like Mitch Johnson/Brett Lee/Cummins would do well in AUS. Hazlewood was injured and not even playing in this WTC.

 

If Umesh was picked over a swing bowler like Bhuvi for example, that's on India's selection and nothing else.

The point here is CLUTCH performances. That means against all odds you make it happen.

 

The performance of Steve Smith in ODI's and Tests for such an extended period of time is incredible. To say he's not under pressure is laughable.

 

The England pitches actually make it an even contest between India vs. Aus as they are making them a lot more flatter than in the past and it's summer time now.

 

The difference is ability to adapt to situations. Smith was very shaky and out of form but still stuck around long enough to score runs through grit.

 

This ability only Pujara has in our whole team and he's completely out of form for a while now.

 

To say Rohit Sharma or Kohli EVER played a patient knock is laughable. They don't have the patience to hang around long enough.

[Stan AF]

Also MOTM in all the ashes test wins in england since 2015.

 

Stokes managed to sneak in the 3rd test england win in 2019 while he was out injured.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Stan AF

[BlueBlood]

1 minute ago, Stan AF said:

Also MOTM in all the ashes test wins in england since 2015.

 

Stokes managed to sneak in a 3rd these win in 2019 while he was out injured.

 

The irony of it is Pujara went and played a ton of games in England.

 

So to even say he didn't have practice and failed is laughable.

 

It's just that Indian cricket team since IPL has regressed as the pitches prepared are so lopsided that when they are put in a tough situation they just falter.

 

Even Shubman Gill who is supposed to be in great form showed you cannot transfer IPL form into brute force SENA pace attacks without adapting.

[Gollum]

This excuse of Indian cricketers being under more pressure is laughable, in fact they should have less pressure since there is no accountability and it's like having a sarkari naukri.

 

Every player who represents his/her country is under tremendous pressure, period. I believe at the elite level most of the pressure is self-imposed. A Sunil Chhetri playing against Oman in WC qualifiers is under as much pressure as a Messi playing a FIFA KO against a top European side. Levels are different but mental stress is the same. 

 

 

[Stan AF]

Another underrated and much less talked about feature of Smith is his catching.

Smith is a supreme athlete as well. Much superior to the blokes at his level.

 

Has a whopping 150+ catches at the test level.

[Austin 3:!6]

18 hours ago, Norman said:

Imagine Kohli doing that lol...

 

His fans are still jerking off to his 80 against Pakistan at the MCG. That too in a group stage game.

 

 

Wed have seen temples built for him had he won as many knockout games for India as Smith has...

 

That was a great knock though...Smith would have never won that game from that situation in T20 format.

[Number]

His 2015 WC knokout innings aren't that clutch.

He was part of a line up which had some great stroker makers and monstrous hitters who could take all the burden of run rate lifting. Warner, Finch, Watson, Maxwell, Faulkner. Also he was never chasing steep targets That allowed him to play at his pace.

 

[rtmohanlal]

8 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Australian conditions are a lot different from England.

 

England rewards swing bowlers while AUS is more seam + bounce.

 

Someone like McGrath / Hazlewood would do well in England. While someone like Mitch Johnson/Brett Lee/Cummins would do well in AUS. Hazlewood was injured and not even playing in this WTC.

 

If Umesh was picked over a swing bowler like Bhuvi for example, that's on India's selection and nothing else.

The point here is CLUTCH performances. That means against all odds you make it happen.

 

The performance of Steve Smith in ODI's and Tests for such an extended period of time is incredible. To say he's not under pressure is laughable.

 

The England pitches actually make it an even contest between India vs. Aus as they are making them a lot more flatter than in the past and it's summer time now.

 

The difference is ability to adapt to situations. Smith was very shaky and out of form but still stuck around long enough to score runs through grit.

 

This ability only Pujara has in our whole team and he's completely out of form for a while now.

 

To say Rohit Sharma or Kohli EVER played a patient knock is laughable. They don't have the patience to hang around long enough.

Yet Indian spin conditions are  lot more different to  ENG conditions   than what it is between ENG - AUS conditions. 

Umesh's selection  made the bowling unit a   lot more weaker and there by a lot more easier to AUS batsmen.So the core point is that  this  made   it easier  for that 'clutch performance' to happen. Smith was under pressure too but  not to  the  extends   to which  usually an 'Indian batting main stay' is under for sure.

Again , I have never rated pujara. He has been an utter  waste except in AUS, killing the entire momentum  of the team inns for some time now.

And my other points stay. You may agree to disagree.

Edited June 9, 2023 by rtmohanlal

[rtmohanlal]

7 hours ago, Gollum said:

This excuse of Indian cricketers being under more pressure is laughable, in fact they should have less pressure since there is no accountability and it's like having a sarkari naukri.

 

Every player who represents his/her country is under tremendous pressure, period. I believe at the elite level most of the pressure is self-imposed. A Sunil Chhetri playing against Oman in WC qualifiers is under as much pressure as a Messi playing a FIFA KO against a top European side. Levels are different but mental stress is the same. 

 

 

what you said w.r.t  'accountability' might be true. That means these players  can shamelessly  hang on to their   positions as if  they are some government jobs and earn millions despite  under performing a lot for as long as they like. But  the pressure to maintain their ' reputations as performers' is always there.