I fail to understand exclusion of Ashwin: Sachin Tendulkar

[zen]

Ashwin is less likely to be a part of a WTC final again. At this point, it is all water under the bridge. 

 

 

[rkt.india]

Ashwin's exclusion is not a deal breaker or difference between winning and losing.  Team lost because of picking bowlers like Shami and Umesh who are past their sell by date and never really that good in that country along with picking batsmen who are past their sell by dates. they had only one regular young batsman in the team in Pant who is injured.    

[Chakdephatte]

1 hour ago, zen said:

 

They don't!

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
EAS Prasanna	1967-1978	20	34	5771	2336	78	8/76	11/140	29.94	2.42	73.9	5	1
BS Bedi	1967-1979	25	42	7076	2789	90	6/127	10/194	30.98	2.36	78.6	5	1
BS Chandrasekhar	1967-1979	19	32	4994	2225	71	6/38	12/104	31.33	2.67	70.3	6	1
RJ Shastri	1981-1992	21	36	4340	1628	47	5/125	8/179	34.63	2.25	92.3	1	0
A Kumble	1990-2008	35	67	11317	5224	141	8/141	12/279	37.04	2.76	80.2	5	1
RA Jadeja	2013-2022	18	31	4017	1777	47	6/138	7/258	37.80	2.65	85.4	1	0
Harbhajan Singh	1998-2011	19	34	4796	2476	62	7/120	7/102	39.93	3.09	77.3	3	0
R Ashwin	2011-2022	23	40	5685	2709	66	4/55	7/121	41.04	2.85	86.1	0	0

 

 

 

 

 

Why comparing with spinners from 40 years ago?

 

A more relevant filter would be-

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=5;orderby=wickets;spanmin1=5+Nov+2011;spanval1=span;team=1;team=2;team=25;team=3;team=4;team=5;team=6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

 

Only two spinners are comfortably better - Lyon and Maharaj. Others are below or similar level.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Chakdephatte

[Laaloo]

20 minutes ago, zen said:

Ashwin is less likely to be a part of a WTC final again. At this point, it is all water under the bridge. 

 

 

What does that have to do with anything? That statement could also apply to pujara, Rohit and maybe Kohli.

[Suhaan]

21 minutes ago, Lord said:

Ashwin has mental edge v Aus and particularly Smith. That alone warranted his selection.

 

The team was picked only seeing the pitch on 1st day.

This alongwith Shami,Umesh forming a very weak pace bowling attack in a final

How can you expect this attack to take 20 wickets cheaply?

Plus ,weakest batting adds pepper to the injury

[Laaloo]

13 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Ashwin's exclusion is not a deal breaker or difference between winning and losing.  Team lost because of picking bowlers like Shami and Umesh who are past their sell by date and never really that good in that country along with picking batsmen who are past their sell by dates. they had only one regular young batsman in the team in Pant who is injured.    

I don't think we would have won but Ashwin would have made a huge difference over umesh who hardly did anything. Oh and Ashwin was always good for at least 30-40 runs. That's an improvement as well. It was a mornic decision and the idiots who made that decision should be asked to GTFO.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

This alongwith Shami,Umesh forming a very weak pace bowling attack in a final

How can you expect this attack to take 20 wickets cheaply?

Plus ,weakest batting adds pepper to the injury

yes if we had a better pace then it would have made sense.

 

We needed to beef up batting too.

[zen]

7 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Why comparing with spinners from 40 years ago?

 

If you want filters than this is relevant-

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=5;orderby=wickets;spanmin1=5+Nov+2011;spanval1=span;team=1;team=2;team=25;team=3;team=4;team=5;team=6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

 

Only two spinners are comfortably better - Lyon and Maharaj. Others are below or similar level.

 

Buddy, here is your stat (with those with 50 or more wickets, implying relatively a large sample, and the same timeline):

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
NM Lyon (AUS)	2011-2023	87	164	3543.4	726	10310	326	7/152	12/286	31.62	2.90	65.2	11	2
KA Maharaj (SA)	2016-2023	41	68	1183.0	225	3729	117	7/32	9/97	31.87	3.15	60.6	7	0
RA Jadeja (IND)	2013-2023	20	35	725.5	135	1936	52	6/138	7/258	37.23	2.66	83.7	1	0
MJ Leach (ENG)	2018-2023	20	31	614.1	124	1974	52	5/66	10/166	37.96	3.21	70.8	3	1
MM Ali (ENG)	2014-2021	45	77	1267.0	185	4601	119	6/53	10/112	38.66	3.63	63.8	4	1
GP Swann (ENG)	2012-2013	15	27	652.3	125	2056	53	6/90	10/132	38.79	3.15	73.8	3	1
R Ashwin (IND)	2011-2022	24	42	972.3	165	2754	70	4/55	7/121	39.34	2.83	83.3	0	0

 

 

I just don't get the point of such an exercise

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by zen

[zen]

Anyways,  to Tendullar for advocating one of the least successful spinners in SENA probably based on his home record built on tailored pitches. 

 

I can see why he did not like to captain much. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

SENA = oval lol what kind of a dumbass clubbing this  is. Heck they don't even use same cricket ball

Edited June 12, 2023 by vvvslaxman

[rkt.india]

44 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

I don't think we would have won but Ashwin would have made a huge difference over umesh who hardly did anything. Oh and Ashwin was always good for at least 30-40 runs. That's an improvement as well. It was a mornic decision and the idiots who made that decision should be asked to GTFO.

Ashwin would not have played over Umesh but over Shardul. Shardul is the one who replaced Ashwin as seam alrounder, not Umesh who is a frontline pacer. They picked Umesh between Umesh and Unadkat. Shardul would have missed out had Ashwin played. Shardul did   

[rkt.india]

42 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Buddy, here is your stat (with those with 50 or more wickets, implying relatively a large sample, and the same timeline):

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
NM Lyon (AUS)	2011-2023	87	164	3543.4	726	10310	326	7/152	12/286	31.62	2.90	65.2	11	2
KA Maharaj (SA)	2016-2023	41	68	1183.0	225	3729	117	7/32	9/97	31.87	3.15	60.6	7	0
RA Jadeja (IND)	2013-2023	20	35	725.5	135	1936	52	6/138	7/258	37.23	2.66	83.7	1	0
MJ Leach (ENG)	2018-2023	20	31	614.1	124	1974	52	5/66	10/166	37.96	3.21	70.8	3	1
MM Ali (ENG)	2014-2021	45	77	1267.0	185	4601	119	6/53	10/112	38.66	3.63	63.8	4	1
GP Swann (ENG)	2012-2013	15	27	652.3	125	2056	53	6/90	10/132	38.79	3.15	73.8	3	1
R Ashwin (IND)	2011-2022	24	42	972.3	165	2754	70	4/55	7/121	39.34	2.83	83.3	0	0

 

 

I just don't get the point of such an exercise

 

Lyon is a much better bowler than Ashwin. If we had pitches like in 2000s at home during his time, his career average would have been same as Bhajji and Kumble. Same for Jadeja. these guys are accurate wicket to wicket bowlers who depend on the pitch to do the thing for them.  

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Ashwin would not have played over Umesh but over Shardul. Shardul is the one who replaced Ashwin as seam alrounder, not Umesh who is a frontline pacer. They picked Umesh between Umesh and Unadkat. Shardul would have missed out had Ashwin played. Shardul did   

Thakur was always going to play due to his all round skill made 2 fifties at the oval last time.  36 years old umesh should have been phased out.  

[zen]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Lyon is a much better bowler than Ashwin. If we had pitches like in 2000s at home during his time, his career average would have been same as Bhajji and Kumble. Same for Jadeja. these guys are accurate wicket to wicket bowlers who depend on the pitch to do the thing for them.  

 

Yeah, I rate Lyon high too ... Even at Rose Bowl where the conditions favored spin relatively, Ashwin let India down by going missing (may be under pressure). In the 2nd inning, he opened the bowling too! Moeen bhai won it for Eng. 

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Thakur was always going to play due to his all round skill made 2 fifties at the oval last time.  36 years old umesh should have been phased out.  

nah. Shardul would only played in place of Ashwin because he is not a third seamer. you do not play with just two specialist seamers in England. No one does. 9, 10, 11 are always 3 frontline seamers in SENA, 8 could be a spin or seam alrounder either Ashwin or Shardul or any other seam option depending on conditions and prima facie, conditions suited Shardul more and Shardul did exactly what Ashwin might have done.   

[rkt.india]

Anyway, pitch did not have much help for spinners, whatever happened was from the rough outside off and Ashwin has never made use of rough in his career. Lyon has made his career in Aussie conditions by using rough. Even then, there was not much rough there to work for off spinners. there was some rough for Jadeja, the left arm spinner. 

[Lord]

20 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Lyon is a much better bowler than Ashwin. If we had pitches like in 2000s at home during his time, his career average would have been same as Bhajji and Kumble. Same for Jadeja. these guys are accurate wicket to wicket bowlers who depend on the pitch to do the thing for them.  

 

how many series Lyon has won for Aus in India. Hell even in Aus Ash has done better in 2018 and 2020 series.

[vvvslaxman]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

nah. Shardul would only played in place of Ashwin because he is not a third seamer. you do not play with just two specialist seamers in England. No one does. 9, 10, 11 are always 3 frontline seamers in SENA, 8 could be a spin or seam alrounder either Ashwin or Shardul or any other seam option depending on conditions and prima facie, conditions suited Shardul more and Shardul did exactly what Ashwin might have done.   

Shardul is a swing bowler. He swung even in Australia. Even as a bowler he should be ahead of washed up Umesh. That is why I wouldn't havr minded  even unadkat ahead of umesh

 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

how many series Lyon has won for Aus in India. Hell even in Aus Ash has done better in 2018 and 2020 series.

Lyon is way too over rated. He struggled in UAE Pakistan SA.  He is at best someone complements their outstanding seam attack. But failed against us at SCG, Gabba. Also failed agains two lefties Jack leach and Stokes being unable to break their last wicket match winning partnership. Ashwin has nailed stokes 12 times

[sensible-indian]

Our fans are truly a special kind.

 

They deserve this team lol.