Indian pace bowling all rounders

[Frustrated]

D Chahar.     He will bowl one over of harmless pies and then will get injured for rest of the match.   Some part timer has to come in and complete his quota in every game. 

[Majestic]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What was he supposed to do?He has no support, he could not all out and knock himself out.

 

He was still bowling most number of over in India too, India had no good spinners also in mid 80s.

 

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is bollocks. Flintoff  had a few good series. Outside that he was mediocre.  It helped Flintoff to have bowlers like Hoggard, Simon Jones, Harmsion to bowl alongside him. When Flintoff is the only bowler to share the workload he would not have had  a 79 test career.

India would love to have a pace bowling A/R who can play 60 tests at international level also. It is such a shame that we don't even have a pace bowling A/R who even played more than 30 tests except for Kapil Dev.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Majestic

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Majestic said:

 

India would love to have a pace bowling A/R who can play 60 tests at international level also. It is such a shame that we don't even have a pace bowling A/R who played more than 30 tests outside Kapil Dev.

 

Even in first class we don't have many who has proven ability of bowling 20 to 25 overs and bat for 50 to 100 balls.  Irfan pathan was the last one. Thakur kind of guys are the closest one we are going to get.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

India would love to have a pace bowling A/R who can play 60 tests at international level also. It is such a shame that we don't even have a pace bowling A/R who even played more than 30 tests except for Kapil Dev.

Flintoff as a bowler had much more pace than Kapil but he again was injured a lot and had a very good supporting cast which allowed him to go all out .

 

Chetan Sharma, Raju Kulkarni, Madan Lal, Roger Binny were his support bowlers.Ghavri was semi decent at start of his career.

 

To fault Kapil for not going all out is ridiculous.

[putrevus]

As a batsman both Botham and Kapil were far superior to either Imran or Hadlee. It is not even close

 

Hadlee was a tailender who could bat and Imran at best was a bowler who could bat. 

[zen]

15 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Dont think he was anywhere close to Flintoff as a bowler. Flintoff was such a scary bowler. Ask any good batsman who would he not want to face between Flintoff or Kapil, answer would mostly be Flintoff. 

 

Kapil would probably compete with the likes of Bhuvi now. Bhuvi if he played in the 80s could have picked up as many wickets (if not more) as Kapil. 

 

Bhuvi would probably have been more effective in places like Eng and NZ. 

 

Flintoff could be scary to face esp. if he gets the reverse going.  

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Flintoff as a bowler had much more pace than Kapil but he again was injured a lot and had a very good supporting cast which allowed him to go all out .

 

Chetan Sharma, Raju Kulkarni, Madan Lal, Roger Binny were his support bowlers.Ghavri was semi decent at start of his career.

 

To fault Kapil for not going all out is ridiculous.

 

Ghavri would bowl pace for a few overs then he will switch to spin. 

[singhvivek141]

There is dearth of pace bowling allrounders in domestics...no doubt on that.
Except Raj Bawa, all the other "pace allrounders" are mediocre with bat and trundler with ball (aka Rishi Dhawan).

Yudhvir, Gurnoor and Hangargekar are as good as what Shardul or Chahar used to be when they started..i.e. an Agarkar level batter. Hence they can't be called as allrounder but someone who can be developed as a Woakes level batter. We don't have Green or Stokes level pacer allrounder at the moment (Bawa has the potential).

 

Better if we focus on spinning allrounders as they're easier to find and we have mastery in developing them. Axar, Sundar, Nishant all are capable of batting at no 7, and hope to develop one of Hangargekar or Yudhvir for no 8. That will allow the likes of Kuldeep Yadav to play consistently as second spinner once Ashwin retires.


 

[singhvivek141]

21 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Also, FYI,

 

Flintoff 79 test, 226 wkt

Kapil after 62 tests, 247 wkts playing on subcontinent wickets while Freedie had the luxury of bowling with Duke in England for half of the games.

Flintoff don't used to bowl much in his earlier days, as he was quite overweight. That impacted a lot his number of wickets column during his initial days.
He gained fitness and became lean as he started to play consistently.

[putrevus]

Fast bowling all rounder like Kapil and not fake all rounder like Pandya who cannot bowl his overs even in t20s would have been a crown jewel in Indian cricket if he played today in any format.

[vvvslaxman]

14 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

There is dearth of pace bowling allrounders in domestics...no doubt on that.
Except Raj Bawa, all the other "pace allrounders" are mediocre with bat and trundler with ball (aka Rishi Dhawan).

Yudhvir, Gurnoor and Hangargekar are as good as what Shardul or Chahar used to be when they started..i.e. an Agarkar level batter. Hence they can't be called as allrounder but someone who can be developed as a Woakes level batter. We don't have Green or Stokes level pacer allrounder at the moment (Bawa has the potential).

 

Better if we focus on spinning allrounders as they're easier to find and we have mastery in developing them. Axar, Sundar, Nishant all are capable of batting at no 7, and hope to develop one of Hangargekar or Yudhvir for no 8. That will allow the likes of Kuldeep Yadav to play consistently as second spinner once Ashwin retires.


 

 

That is the practical way of going about it. It would be nice if we find a leg spinning all rounder.

[Majestic]

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Fast bowling all rounder like Kapil and not fake all rounder like Pandya who cannot bowl his overs even in t20s would have been a crown jewel in Indian cricket if he played today in any format.

Imagine calling the fake all rounder who has played 10 tests in his career as Sir Don while bashing the real all rounder who served his country as a strike bowler for 130+ tests by putting him in league of Bhuvi  validates all the logic and basic common sense for the said poster. 

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Imagine calling the fake all rounder who has played 10 tests in his career as Sir Don while bashing the real all rounder who served his country as a strike bowler for 130+ tests by putting him in league of Bhuvi  validates all the logic and basic common sense for the said poster. 

He is an idiot, there is no point in talking to idiots.

[zen]

There is a pattern forming of ad hominem arguments

 

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is bollocks. Flintoff  had a few good series. Outside that he was mediocre.  It helped Flintoff to have bowlers like Hoggard, Simon Jones, Harmsion to bowl alongside him. When Flintoff is the only bowler to share the workload he would not have had  a 79 test career.

Flintoff was truly a very very tough bowler those days to face

It wasn't easy to score against him

He quickened insanely from 2002/3 to 2007/8

 

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Flintoff was truly a very very tough bowler those days to face

It wasn't easy to score against him

He quickened insanely from 2002/3 to 2007/8

 

 

Lot of bowlers have been quick. But doesn't mean they are better. 

[Lord]

17 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Flintoff was truly a very very tough bowler those days to face

It wasn't easy to score against him

He quickened insanely from 2002/3 to 2007/8

 

still failed in Aus Ashes 2006

[Suhaan]

7 minutes ago, Lord said:

still failed in Aus Ashes 2006

Sides were deep contrasting in depth and strength

Previous Ashes,he played a huge role to stop that Aussie side

[Chakdephatte]

Flintoff is somewhat overrated in Tests. But remains unsung hero in ODIs. May still be England's best player.

[Suhaan]

17 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Lot of bowlers have been quick. But doesn't mean they are better. 

I was just adding his other strength

He in that period was quite miserly,any side including Australia would have happily accommodated a guy like him their side