Indian pace bowling all rounders

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Fast bowling all rounder like Kapil and not fake all rounder like Pandya who cannot bowl his overs even in t20s would have been a crown jewel in Indian cricket if he played today in any format.

No one can predict what could have Kapil done in modern day cricket. it is futile. Someone like pandya who can bowl 145K would be worth gold in the 70-80s for Team India, not so sure about Kapil in current cricketing scenario.  

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

Also, FYI,

 

Flintoff 79 test, 226 wkt

Kapil after 62 tests, 247 wkts playing on subcontinent wickets while Freedie had the luxury of bowling with Duke in England for half of the games.

still batsmen would rather face Kapil than Flintoff.   

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

No one can predict what could have Kapil done in modern day cricket. it is futile. Someone like pandya who can bowl 145K would be worth gold in the 70-80s for Team India, not so sure about Kapil in current cricketing scenario.  

No Pandya would not have been worth gold in 1970s,  He is not fit to bowl 4 overs.He would have stunk then also. Kapil would have done better than what he did in 1970s as he was always fit.

 

 

Kapil would lead Indian team in all three formats.Don't put a joker like Pandya who cannot bowl one over in same sentence as Kapil.

 

Bowling odd delivery at 140 does not make a bowler 145 K bowler. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by putrevus

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

still batsmen would rather face Kapil than Flintoff.   

That does not make Flintoff better bowler. 

[zen]

24 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

No one can predict what could have Kapil done in modern day cricket. it is futile. Someone like pandya who can bowl 145K would be worth gold in the 70-80s for Team India, not so sure about Kapil in current cricketing scenario.  

 

In the 80s, most teams including the WI, would have welcomed an AR who can bat well, bowl at 145, and field well. For India, he would have been its fastest bowler, giving the team the ability to swing both ways, seam, reverse swing, and bounce as well! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by zen

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

 

In the 80s, most teams including the WI, would have welcomed an AR who can bat well, bowl at 145, and field well. For India, he would have been its fastest bowler, giving the team the ability to swing both ways, seam, reverse swing, and bounce as well! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not in ODI's and Tests...Pandya's pace oscillates around 135k in longer formats.

 

Even in T20's, his pace varies up and down a lot..some day he will bowl 140k, next game he will trundle at 130k.

 

 

[zen]

Just now, singhvivek141 said:

Not in ODI's and Tests...Pandya's pace oscillates around 135k in longer formats.

 

Even in T20's, his pace varies up and down a lot..some day he will bowl 140k, next game he will trundle at 130k.

 

 

Cricket was played relatively leisurely in those days. For a major part of the 80s, test cricket had a rest day too. Today, top cricketers play 14-17 games just in IPL over 2 months. 

 

If Sir Don played in the 80s, he had the opportunity to bowl more quicker. And he would have been Ind's fastest bowler too. He won India a test in Eng with the ball, has a 90 odd in SA, and averages 60+ in the subcon with the bat, so I won't be surprised if a team like India had pulled off a few more tests if it had a player like him. 

 

 

[putrevus]

Kapil with his  nearly 100 plus SR with ability to hit any bowler anywhere would be first name in Indian odis/t20 team along with test team even today.

Edited June 20, 2023 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Not in ODI's and Tests...Pandya's pace oscillates around 135k in longer formats.

 

Even in T20's, his pace varies up and down a lot..some day he will bowl 140k, next game he will trundle at 130k.

 

 

Pace variation is tactical according to the pitch and conditions and is a right approach if a bowler wants to have a long career. Can't go full pace all time. 

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Not in ODI's and Tests...Pandya's pace oscillates around 135k in longer formats.

 

Even in T20's, his pace varies up and down a lot..some day he will bowl 140k, next game he will trundle at 130k.

 

 

He seems to be an intelligent bowler in T20 s

In short bursts ,when needed bowls consistently bowls in 140s to 145+

 

I have no complaints for his bowling,it has surely evolved but it's batting that has nosedived

 

[IndiaWC8311]

3 hours ago, Frustrated said:

D Chahar.     He will bowl one over of harmless pies and then will get injured for rest of the match.   Some part timer has to come in and complete his quota in every game. 

Dhoni won 3 IPL titles and missed out on a 4th by narrowest of margins with D Chahar as his lead bowler 

[Majestic]

59 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

still batsmen would rather face Kapil than Flintoff.   

Batsman will get bowled by Kapil more often than Flintoff though.

 

I live in reality, you are living in ifs and buts.

 

Can Flintoff or Pandya pick a 9-fer like Kapil did vs the great Windies team in 1983?

 

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=0966

Edited June 20, 2023 by Majestic

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

No one can predict what could have Kapil done in modern day cricket. it is futile. Someone like pandya who can bowl 145K would be worth gold in the 70-80s for Team India, not so sure about Kapil in current cricketing scenario.  

 

As long as pigs fly even Tushar Dehspande with his 145 k would be useful in the 80s lol  Umran would have won all the test matches in 1970s. But a world class outswing bowler in an era where most  batsmen who have no clue about their off stump will struggle now :)

[zen]

In matches won overseas: 

 

Sir Don 

Batting avg 42

Bowling avg 16

Avg diff 26

 

Kapil 

Batting avg 16

Bowling avg 19

Avg diff -3 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Calling Pandu an all rounder itself is a blasphemy lol  That guy has bowled around 7 overs per innings lol That is not all rounder. Sachin has bowled 5 overs per Test innings.  So Pandu is a part timer in Tests. Sachin won a famous Eden Gardens test with a 3 important wicket against an ATG australian side. He sure is not going to clal himself an all rounder

 

 

[putrevus]

This notion that Kapil Dev's game would have be translated into modern cricket is ridiculous.

 

He never was injured that means he was always available for India.His Bowling action was text book which did not put too much stress on his body.

 

He would have had better fast bowling supprting case so his average would have been better than in 1970s.He would be playing for team which was used to winning.

 

He had ability to hit ferocious Patrick Paterson in odis and  Furious Allan Donald  in test walking in 31/6 in full rampage and score 129 with single hand when guy like Sachin could not lay bat on ball  . They would have been in Folklore if he had supporting cast like Botham who had Bob Willis taking 8 wickets to win the matches .

Edited June 20, 2023 by putrevus

[zen]

Btw, Sir Don has played mostly away (and Kapil's, by and large, performances are mostly at home - one country), so: 

 

Sir Don away

Batting avg 29

Bowling avg 30

Avg difference -1 

 

Kapil in his first 10 tests away 

Batting avg 15

Bowling avg 34

Avg difference -19  

 

Kapil's overall record away

Batting avg 26

Bowling avg 33

Avg diff -7 

 

(Difficult to term Kapil as a major test AR based on performances in one country - "home", and sporadic performances overseas. India has tons of "Come to India" players)

Edited June 20, 2023 by zen

[Suhaan]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

As long as pigs fly even Tushar Dehspande with his 145 k would be useful in the 80s lol  Umran would have won all the test matches in 1970s. But a world class outswing bowler in an era where most  batsmen who have no clue about their off stump will struggle now :)

Bad comparison,Pandya anyday is far better a bowler than Deshpande

Not all 140+ bowlers should be compared with Deshpande

In favourable conditions England,Pandya too won a test entirely of his bowling

[Frustrated]

6 hours ago, IndiaWC8311 said:

Dhoni won 3 IPL titles and missed out on a 4th by narrowest of margins with D Chahar as his lead bowler 

IPL is different from intl cricket.  D Chahar has got enough opportunities in ODIs.   Don't recall a single match where he remained injury free till the end.  

[Majestic]

If Pandya played in 80s, his skills set won't have been like this. Nobody in India knew back then how to bowl fast and swing the ball both ways.

 

Pandya inspite of all that picked 17 wickets in 11 tests