Ravi Shastri on Shaheen Afridi

[First class]

6 hours ago, sandeep said:

Importantly, he isn't "insulting" Shaheen.  He's a good bowler, but just that the hype is bit OTT.

 

Shastri says a lot of bombastic things but is a very smart dude who knows his cricket.  

Yes, its always good to be realistic and not living in dreams. Shaheen is a good bowler with lots of potential but long way to go before he earns the title of " a Pakistan great ". Great players announce their arrival at the biggest stage, Shaheen as been mediocre so far in this WC. 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

58 minutes ago, Norman said:

 

Because they don't play every useless bilateral game like Shaheen did in 2021 even if it's against Uganda C team. At the end of day ICC rankings and awards are decided by stats and Shaheen padded them up very well by playing even against almighty Zimbabwe. 

 

Or else , he was pretty much nothing in that whole year apart from a new ball spell against India in a circus T20. Mathew wade would have had a big laugh when he saw that award announcement

 

ok

[sandeep]

54 minutes ago, First class said:

Yes, its always good to be realistic and not living in dreams. Shaheen is a good bowler with lots of potential but long way to go before he earns the title of " a Pakistan great ". Great players announce their arrival at the biggest stage, Shaheen as been mediocre so far in this WC. 

This thread has been unnecessarily derailed by "patriots" getting their panties in a twist.

 

Shaheen is a left-arm pacer and a good one.  Just like Madhushanka troubled Australia today, left-armers who can bowl pace and swing the ball are always a valuable asset to cricket teams.  But he's far from the likes of Cummins, Hazelwood, Anderson, Steyn, Bumrah, Rabada etc.  

 

Modern day marketing demands that there be a couple of "notable" stars to be hyped up in a team - for Pakistan, its slim pickings and so Shaheen, Babar, Rizwan are it - for better or worse.  But when you are talking about top-tier stars and legit elite status, these guys are not there yet.  

 

Babar is a good anchor type bat, but he is Shashi Kapoor, no Amitabh.  Babar can't win games against a top tier ODI or T20 team the way Sachin or Virat have taken down elite Australian teams.  Babar is a supporting cast type batter.  Always has been.  

[rkt.india]

On 10/16/2023 at 3:53 AM, Need4Speed said:

But somehow Shaheen’s slower balls are gettinh wkts for him in middle overs…may be with time batters may get used to it..

He is Mustafizur part 2. Should concentrate on his cutters now.

[sandeep]

13 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He is Mustafizur part 2. Should concentrate on his cutters now.

Thats harsh man, if he recovers from his injuries and loss of form, can be better than that guy.  

[AuxiliA]

For tall bowler like him it's surprising that he doesn't have a good bouncer. 

[deathmonger]

On 10/16/2023 at 11:46 AM, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Shaheen averages low 20s in T20, ODI and Test cricket. Ranked top 10 in both ODI and Test formats. Iconic performances against top batters in the world cups. Youngest to receive the prestigious cricketer of the year award 2021 at the age of 22. Previous winners from India since 2000 are Dravid, Sachin, Kohli and Ashwin after playing cricket for nearly a decade.

Pakistan fans don’t make the ICC committee? He has also won last 2 PSL cups as a captain already. 
Disappointed to see Ravi Shastri’s desperate commentary to downplay 1 of the best players in the world. Shaheen is clearly going through a rough patch, which all players see every now and then. It’s an overreaction. 
The Shaheen nightmare will be back. It’s as certain as death and taxes. 

 

 

Shaheen lucked out that year due to FTP and player unavailability due to covid.

 

He had a decent t20 wc that year (which he did not even make the finals of) and was outbowled by boult, hazlewood (who made the finals/wom).

 

Plus statpadded against weak teams in tests.

 

in tests averages 36 against SENA with 0 5-fers. All wickets against SL, Zim, WI etc. And this includes matches in SENA which supports fast bowling.

 

ODI statpadding too against weaker teams and 2nd string teams of SENA during IPL.

 

What is certain as death and taxes is Shaheen joining the likes of Gul, Amir, Wahab, Hasan, Junaid etc - a few good years, injury/loss of form, dropping. Naseem next on the line. Post Waqar no Pak pacer has 200 test wickets and I don't think anyone will.

[deathmonger]

22 hours ago, sandeep said:

Please post his test numbers away from home again? 

Even sucks at SENA at home.

 

Only bullies Zimbabwe, SL, WI, Bang lol. Not even as good as Umesh Yadav.

[deathmonger]

20 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Lol! I understand but shastri is wrong.

overall numbers and achievements are those of a very special and world class player. A string of average games and knives are out. 
what are Kohli’s numbers in England and NZ? Can you post those.

One can easily find flaws in any player’s record, specially so early in their career. It’s an illogical argument. 
Shastri and his admirers should go and take on ICC committee for awarding Shaheen the player of the year award, which is reserved for GOATs.

Kohli still has centuries in NZ and England (multiple)

Plus has great record in SA and Aus.

 

Shaheen has ZERO 5-fers in SENA. He has ZERO 5-fers against SENA at home too. Just statpadding.

 

Shaheen's entire test career is a flaw lol.

[deathmonger]

18 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Like I said, Shastri and his supporters should take this up with the ICC why they awarded him Player of the year in 2021, which is reserved for GOATs. They should influence ICC to change their ranking algorithm and ask why this mediocre guy consistently ranks top 10. 
As for Shaheen’s current form sucks. But mark my words: the nightmare of Shaheen will be back. It’s as certain as death and taxes. 

That player of the year was full covid tax.

 

 

 

 

[deathmonger]

I'll explain the Pakistani mindset of hyping up Babar and Shaheen.

 

Shaheen averages 36.40 in test cricket against SENA with ZERO 5-fers (who are the good test teams, doesn't play India). Siraj, Bhuvi, Umesh etc all have at least one 5-fer against SENA. Bumrah, Shami, Ishant etc have lots.

 

Babar averages 36.33 in test cricket outside Asia with 1 century (Ravi Ashwin has two).

 

Thing is Pakistan as a country really doesn't have anything going for it.

 

Their economy is down with same per capita income (in $ terms) as 2013. Their former part, Bangladesh has grown richer than them and in all metrics.

 

Doesn't really have an entertainment industry. Just consumes Indian TV, movies and music.

 

Their hockey team is dead. Doesn't even qualify for Olympics/World Cups.

 

Other sports they are non-starters. No medals in Olympics since 92. Single digit Olympic contingent, mostly wildcard entries. Forget Olympics, they don't even win at Asiad level, which is way less competitive. Got less medals this time than war-torn Afghanistan and Sri Lanka (who have both medaled at the Olympics in the last 30 years). Women's sports is a no go. The few female athletes have to compete in hijab and full sleeve clothes.

 

So the only thing they are somewhat ok at is men's cricket - so they hype it up cause they have nothing else left. So Babar and Shaheen get overrated beyond what they are - a Yousuf Youhana level batsman (good ODI batsman, FTB test batsman) and an Umar Gul level bowler (great T20 bowler, decent ODI bowler, mediocre test bowler).

 

And in between the general downfall of their country, they see what is going across the border and see us growing in every field. And that stings them. And many Pakistanis have admitted as much.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/osman-samiuddin-meekened-pakistan-still-waiting-to-prick-india-s-bubble-830669

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/14/india.features116

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/why-my-father-hated-india-the-son-of-assassinated-pakistani-leader.23528/

 

So it was not enough to just have good players, they had to be better than India. Therefore Babar had to be better than Kohli. Shaheen had to be the best fast bowler on the planet because if India has better fast bowling - what is Pakistan left with? That's why their hesitance to rate Bumrah who has a better test bowling average than Wasim, Waqar, Imran and is the only Asian fast bowler to have match winning five wicket hauls in South Africa, England, Australia and West Indies.

 

And thus they overhype. And when reality hits them in the face, they can't take it.

 

Many more reality checks await over the years, and not just cricket.

 

 

[rkt.india]

48 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Thats harsh man, if he recovers from his injuries and loss of form, can be better than that guy.  

I don't think he is playing with injuries. If it was possible to play having with injuries and hit 136-140, Naseem would have played too. He is fit, just not enough swing here for fast bowlers.

[Nash]

SSA is a good bowler and he proved it many time that he is dangerous but the same thing goes for Bhuvi and many other bowlers. Pakistani formal players are hyping him as he is next coming of Akram is the problem here. SSA has good height and he is left arm. He can bowl 140K +. He can inswing and outswing both. he has good yorkers. These are good sign and he can steam roll any below average batsman. But a world class batsman can overcome his burst like how Kohli did sevral times. He has no way to come back like Bumrah or stark. he lacks reverse swing. 

He can improve a lot but in current situation, he is just a good bowler.

[deathmonger]

Speaking of the greatest Asian test fast bowler.

 

Comparing away records:

 

Akram - 255 wkts in 62 matches at 24.61 with SR 57.3

Waqar - 197 wkts in 49 matches at 25.96 with SR 47.3

Imran - 199 wkts in 50 matches at 25.76 with SR 59.2

 

Bumrah - 114 wkts in 25 matches at 21.96 with SR 48.5

 

Two neutral umpires came into being in 2002.

[Need4Speed]

26 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

I'll explain the Pakistani mindset of hyping up Babar and Shaheen.

 

Shaheen averages 36.40 in test cricket against SENA with ZERO 5-fers (who are the good test teams, doesn't play India). Siraj, Bhuvi, Umesh etc all have at least one 5-fer against SENA. Bumrah, Shami, Ishant etc have lots.

 

Babar averages 36.33 in test cricket outside Asia with 1 century (Ravi Ashwin has two).

 

Thing is Pakistan as a country really doesn't have anything going for it.

 

Their economy is down with same per capita income (in $ terms) as 2013. Their former part, Bangladesh has grown richer than them and in all metrics.

 

Doesn't really have an entertainment industry. Just consumes Indian TV, movies and music.

 

Their hockey team is dead. Doesn't even qualify for Olympics/World Cups.

 

Other sports they are non-starters. No medals in Olympics since 92. Single digit Olympic contingent, mostly wildcard entries. Forget Olympics, they don't even win at Asiad level, which is way less competitive. Got less medals this time than war-torn Afghanistan and Sri Lanka (who have both medaled at the Olympics in the last 30 years). Women's sports is a no go. The few female athletes have to compete in hijab and full sleeve clothes.

 

So the only thing they are somewhat ok at is men's cricket - so they hype it up cause they have nothing else left. So Babar and Shaheen get overrated beyond what they are - a Yousuf Youhana level batsman (good ODI batsman, FTB test batsman) and an Umar Gul level bowler (great T20 bowler, decent ODI bowler, mediocre test bowler).

 

And in between the general downfall of their country, they see what is going across the border and see us growing in every field. And that stings them. And many Pakistanis have admitted as much.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/osman-samiuddin-meekened-pakistan-still-waiting-to-prick-india-s-bubble-830669

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/14/india.features116

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/why-my-father-hated-india-the-son-of-assassinated-pakistani-leader.23528/

 

So it was not enough to just have good players, they had to be better than India. Therefore Babar had to be better than Kohli. Shaheen had to be the best fast bowler on the planet because if India has better fast bowling - what is Pakistan left with? That's why their hesitance to rate Bumrah who has a better test bowling average than Wasim, Waqar, Imran and is the only Asian fast bowler to have match winning five wicket hauls in South Africa, England, Australia and West Indies.

 

And thus they overhype. And when reality hits them in the face, they can't take it.

 

Many more reality checks await over the years, and not just cricket.

 

 

I wont diasgree with many things in this post…there is definitely jealousy in many things not only just cricket..

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, Need4Speed said:

I wont diasgree with many things in this post…there is definitely jealousy in many things not only just cricket..

It's human nature. Imagine your friend/classmate is very successful and you aren't.

[Need4Speed]

20 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I don't think he is playing with injuries. If it was possible to play having with injuries and hit 136-140, Naseem would have played too. He is fit, just not enough swing here for fast bowlers.

Yes…its a long time since his comeback from injury..should be fine now..good teams are getting used to his bowling..

He needs to be very accurate with his line and length..plus increase pace..

additionally work on mixing surprise bouncers,yorkers and not just rely only on slower balls..

[Need4Speed]

3 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

It's human nature. Imagine your friend/classmate is very successful and you aren't.

Healthy competition is better which they wont understand lol

[deathmonger]

Currently, Shaheen Afridi's career is worse than RP Singh till now.

 

RP at least won the WorldT20 where he was bowling well as well as a test series in England.

[deathmonger]

Just now, Need4Speed said:

Healthy competition is better which they wont understand lol

Their entire existence was built on the opposition to India.

 

Muslim League was filled with zamindars who opposed the land reforms by the socialist Congress.

 

Pakistan still hasn't had the land reforms which India had in the 50s. Never invested in literacy programs or eminent institutions like we did in 50s and 60s.

 

Which country in the world has had economic growth without land reforms and literacy?