The biggest difference between 2019 and now....

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Never seen so many tactical errors in a single match in world cup history of India. That was such an average NZ side that was for the taking. We could have easily bullied if we had weathered the 10 over storm.

Loss of top order should not dictate the result but are we confident this time around? NZ team has to be punched hard early  and often,they then would not put up a fight.

Edited November 13, 2023 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Loss of top order should not dictate the result but are we confident this time around? NZ team has to be punched hard early  and often,they then would not put up a fight.

They have one good bowler. No Henry.  only titme he will get anything out of the pitch when India bats second  and in the power play.  They had 2 good bowlers back then. Now reduced to one bowler.  Their 4th and 5th bowlers are mostly part timers.

[putrevus]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

They have one good bowler. No Henry.  only titme he will get anything out of the pitch when India bats second  and in the power play.  They had 2 good bowlers back then. Now reduced to one bowler.  Their 4th and 5th bowlers are mostly part timers.

IMO Jameisson is good enough replacement. Henry is very average bowler , he was made to look better by Indian batsmen in that opening spell.

 

Their team is almost same, they have better batting this time around.Mitchell , Conway and Rachin are very good.

 

They play spin very well too that is the big worry for me.

[BlueBlood]

31 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What do you mean the same lineup  could not do squat in Australia , England or SA.

 

Do you know , India won most games in league phase in 2019  and in 2015 too???

 

 

 

That's exactly my point.

 

Bhuvi and Ashwin were useless when knockouts came.

 

Same with DK, Pant etc.

 

Same now relying on only 5 bowlers. Imagine if one bowlers has off day. And relying on Jadeja as a full time bowler.

 

Stuff like this is unthinkable outside of Indian conditions or without Bumrah and Kuldeep.

 

We would have won 2015 and 2019 if it was held in India as then DK, Pant and Dhoni wouldn't be so useless and Bhuvis economical bowling would have helped.

 

Its not like Rohit, Kohli, KL Rahul and Jadeja suddenly became 10x better than they were in 2019.

[Lord]

10 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

They have one good bowler. No Henry.  only titme he will get anything out of the pitch when India bats second  and in the power play.  They had 2 good bowlers back then. Now reduced to one bowler.  Their 4th and 5th bowlers are mostly part timers.

 

Jamieson, Southee are good too. Even Santner on these pitches.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, BlueBlood said:

 

That's exactly my point.

 

Bhuvi and Ashwin were useless when knockouts came.

 

Same with DK, Pant etc.

 

Same now relying on only 5 bowlers. Imagine if one bowlers has off day. And relying on Jadeja as a full time bowler.

 

Stuff like this is unthinkable outside of Indian conditions or without Bumrah and Kuldeep.

 

We would have won 2015 and 2019 if it was held in India as then DK, Pant and Dhoni wouldn't be so useless and Bhuvis economical bowling would have helped.

 

Its not like Rohit, Kohli, KL Rahul and Jadeja suddenly became 10x better than they were in 2019.

 

Only way you beat Australia in Australia or any other SENA countries by batting first. You can never chase against them with any team in those conditions.  All India's loss in crunch games happened during chase.

[Trichromatic]

Pandya was useless as 3rd seamer. India needed another seamer. We didn't need 2nd spinner and DK as batsman. KL could have played in middle.

 

[deathmonger]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Jamieson, Southee are good too. Even Santner on these pitches.

Don't think they will play both Jamieson/Southee cause they will then have to shorten the lineup a bit (although Jamieson can bat) by removing Chapman.

[deathmonger]

4 hours ago, putrevus said:

IMO Jameisson is good enough replacement. Henry is very average bowler , he was made to look better by Indian batsmen in that opening spell.

 

Their team is almost same, they have better batting this time around.Mitchell , Conway and Rachin are very good.

 

They play spin very well too that is the big worry for me.

Naah Henry is good. Even this World Cup.

[deathmonger]

Another big difference is the bowling.

 

Bumrah was great in the opening overs. Bhuvi and Hardik couldn't capitalize on that. Chahal leaked a lot of runs and only played cause of Kuldeep being destroyed in that England game.

 

If we had Shami and Kuldeep we could have gotten them out for lower.

 

In the series we played there earlier in the year Shami and Kuldeep had outperformed Chahal and Bhuvi.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=wickets;series=12525;template=results;type=bowling

 

We would probably have been chasing 170-180 odd

Edited November 13, 2023 by deathmonger

[deathmonger]

55 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Another big difference is the bowling.

 

Bumrah was great in the opening overs. Bhuvi and Hardik couldn't capitalize on that. Chahal leaked a lot of runs and only played cause of Kuldeep being destroyed in that England game.

 

If we had Shami and Kuldeep we could have gotten them out for lower.

 

In the series we played there earlier in the year Shami and Kuldeep had outperformed Chahal and Bhuvi.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=wickets;series=12525;template=results;type=bowling

 

We would probably have been chasing 170-180 odd

Even in that series Henry and Boult were the best NZ bowlers and they got us while we didn't even play our best two bowlers from that series.

 

Also Jadeja and Chahal make no sense considering both spin the ball the same direction.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by deathmonger

[R!TTER]

6 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Bumrah was great in the opening overs. Bhuvi and Hardik couldn't capitalize on that. Chahal leaked a lot of runs and only played cause of Kuldeep being destroyed in that England game.

Bumrah wasn't great up front, among top 8 teams we had the worst record picking up wickets in the PP IIRC, probably even worse than Bangers & Bumrah was also a major culprit. Kuldeep was hammered in Eng game but then did you check Behaal's numbers? It made no sense to keep picking Agarbatti when he went for even more & he's a pea heart/brained bowler & joke of a fielder frankly!

[deathmonger]

8 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Bumrah wasn't great up front, among top 8 teams we had the worst record picking up wickets in the PP IIRC, probably even worse than Bangers & Bumrah was also a major culprit. Kuldeep was hammered in Eng game but then did you check Behaal's numbers? It made no sense to keep picking Agarbatti when he went for even more & he's a pea heart/brained bowler & joke of a fielder frankly!

I meant vs NZ in the semi. He bowled well in the PP.

[R!TTER]

That was a game we should've won though, even with all the hiccups - we were 90 odd after 30 overs FFS, it was even worse than test match batting! For all the bluster & hot air he exhales from all his holes Shastri hasn't owned that blunder wrt tactics & even second innings planning for the chase, I mean what was the plan - play it like a test for 45 overs & then hit out or pray for Kudrat ka Nizam 

[IndiaWC8311]

The biggest difference is in 2019 Mumbai Indians won IPL by unfair means.

 

In 2023 - CSk the greatest IPL franchise ever won IPL

 

In 2011 - CSK won IPL, India won the WC

In 2023 - CSK won IPL, rest you can figure out

 

@Lord @Laaloo

[straighttalk]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:31 AM, BlueBlood said:

 

That's exactly my point.

 

Bhuvi and Ashwin were useless when knockouts came.

 

Same with DK, Pant etc.

 

Same now relying on only 5 bowlers. Imagine if one bowlers has off day. And relying on Jadeja as a full time bowler.

 

Stuff like this is unthinkable outside of Indian conditions or without Bumrah and Kuldeep.

 

We would have won 2015 and 2019 if it was held in India as then DK, Pant and Dhoni wouldn't be so useless and Bhuvis economical bowling would have helped.

 

Its not like Rohit, Kohli, KL Rahul and Jadeja suddenly became 10x better than they were in 2019.

Did Ashwin even play in 2019

[R!TTER]

No in fact Ashwin was the second best bowler after Umesh in the SF vs Oz in 2015, I've checked some of his recent performances & barring one or two he's generally performed good/great in important games especially when the conditions suit him. In that I think even Jadeja has improved, the pitches in Eng/NZ are made to order just to nullify our spin bowlers - I've posted stats here as well IIRC & since 2k or more specifically post Swann era Eng/NZ (post 2009/10) have had much worse stats for spinners. That can't be down to just the quality of bowling and T20, since DRS has made spinners even more lethal. But more down to the fact that apart from a rare surface which turners all of them are prepared specifically so that they negate our strengths! This goes for tests & LO games.

[coffee_rules]

Tne biggest and only difference that matters between 2019 and now is that we are playing in India, with home conditions, our crowd supporting us. We have had top order collapses againstt Auss and NZ, the MO has had experience to recover, late order florish is lacking, but we have had amazing PP starts from Rohit and Gill. I am pretty confident. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:52 AM, R!TTER said:

That's all BS, the biggest difference is bowling -

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Overall figures

Team	Players	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
India	15	9	54	371.5	22	1668	85	5/18	19.62	4.48	26.2	2	3
South Africa	15	9	48	379.3	19	2112	81	4/44	26.07	5.56	28.1	3	0
Australia	15	9	56	399.3	9	2304	67	4/8	34.38	5.76	35.7	3	0
New Zealand	15	9	57	400.4	16	2269	67	5/59	33.86	5.66	35.8	0	1
England	15	9	53	390.3	14	2261	65	4/43	34.78	5.79	36.0	2	0
Pakistan	15	9	52	413.0	8	2566	65	5/54	39.47	6.21	38.1	1	1
Netherlands	15	9	58	414.0	11	2527	62	4/23	40.75	6.10	40.0	3	0
Sri Lanka	18	9	54	376.3	12	2424	50	5/80	48.48	6.43	45.1	2	1
Afghanistan	13	9	55	400.3	13	2144	53	4/34	40.45	5.35	45.3	1	0
Bangladesh	15	9	52	398.2	13	2414	51	4/71	47.33	6.06	46.8	1	0

 

Till now the most lethal bowling lineup in a WC ever, leading in S/R, economy & avg overall

 

 

Yeah, I get all that, but Shami was 6-0-41-0 against NED. it scares the $*** out of me that he has lost his rhythm. Someone tell me why I am wrong.

[Dil Dil India]

@Lala_is_back tapa tap bro. Make sure you are here tomorrow.