Is this best overseas performing Indian team?

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Yes bowling was bad.

 

Batting was horrendous. We kept losing wickets needlessly.

On these SA pitches , you are never in as a batsman.When you play with just five batsmen out of which many are walking wickets like KL Rahul and Rohit Sharma and you have tail as useless as Indian tail is collpases are not a suprise.

 

Teams are preparing juicy pitches every where India is touring too. Guy like Rahane played 90 tests and Rahul with his stinking avg of 34 has captained India plus how can we forget Kohli's misery for 3 years .He still has not scored a 100 on a decent wicket. Batting is a big big problem.

 

When you are playing five bowlers on these wickets, you are putting more on bowlers plate than on batsmen IMO.

 

We cannot keep giving kuduos to bowlers when they have five of them to share burden on these sort of wickets.

 

Aussies have been winning with just 4 bowlers. 

[sensible-indian]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

On these SA pitches , you are never in as a batsman.When you play with just five batsmen out of which many are walking wickets like KL Rahul and Rohit Sharma and you have tail as useless as Indian tail is collpases are not a suprise.

 

Teams are preparing juicy pitches every where India is touring too. Guy like Rahane played 90 tests and Rahul with his stinking avg of 34 has captained India plus how can we forget Kohli's misery for 3 years .He still has not scored a 100 on a decent wicket. Batting is a big big problem.

 

When you are playing five bowlers on these wickets, you are putting more on bowlers plate than on batsmen IMO.

 

We cannot keep giving kuduos to bowlers when they have five of them to share burden on these sort of wickets.

 

Aussies have been winning with just 4 bowlers. 

Every time I hear this statement, I know what the result is going to be.

 

Every team touring India said that and they lost convincingly.

 

Guess which teams didn't say that.

 

Eng 2012 - They won the series

Aus 2017 - They almost won the series

 

Quote

 

When you play with just five batsmen out of which many are walking wickets like KL Rahul and Rohit Sharma and you have tail as useless as Indian tail is collpases are not a suprise.

 

Teams are preparing juicy pitches every where India is touring too. Guy like Rahane played 90 tests and Rahul with his stinking avg of 34 has captained India plus how can we forget Kohli's misery for 3 years .He still has not scored a 100 on a decent wicket. Batting is a big big problem.

 

Exactly. Thats why we lost.

 

We play with 5 batsmen out of which 3 are passengers.

 

Hence our batting sucks.

Quote

 

When you are playing five bowlers on these wickets, you are putting more on bowlers plate than on batsmen IMO.

 

We cannot keep giving kuduos to bowlers when they have five of them to share burden on these sort of wickets.

 

Add 3 more Prasidh Krishnas and Thakurs. Can we bowl out SA cheaper?

 

No.

 

Cos

 

1) They just add to the numbers. Naam ke vaaste bowlers.

2) Cricket ain't a linear game.

 

 

Quote

Aussies have been winning with just 4 bowlers. 

Bingo.

 

Whose fault is it?

 

Management.

 

[harpicP]

21 minutes ago, putrevus said:

On these SA pitches , you are never in as a batsman.When you play with just five batsmen out of which many are walking wickets like KL Rahul and Rohit Sharma and you have tail as useless as Indian tail is collpases are not a suprise.

 

Teams are preparing juicy pitches every where India is touring too. Guy like Rahane played 90 tests and Rahul with his stinking avg of 34 has captained India plus how can we forget Kohli's misery for 3 years .He still has not scored a 100 on a decent wicket. Batting is a big big problem.

 

When you are playing five bowlers on these wickets, you are putting more on bowlers plate than on batsmen IMO.

 

We cannot keep giving kuduos to bowlers when they have five of them to share burden on these sort of wickets.

 

Aussies have been winning with just 4 bowlers. 

Aussies have labu Smith Warner green marsh and Carey

 

Much much superior batting unit. Allows their bowlers to look better than they are. It's just Cummins basically and Lyon. 

 

We have pant. That's it. Rest are all crap

 

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Every time I hear this statement, I know what the result is going to be.

 

Every team touring India said that and they lost convincingly.

 

Guess which teams didn't say that.

 

Eng 2012 - They won the series

Aus 2017 - They almost won the series

 

Exactly. Thats why we lost.

 

We play with 5 batsmen out of which 3 are passengers.

 

Hence our batting sucks.

Add 3 more Prasidh Krishnas and Thakurs. Can we bowl out SA cheaper?

 

No.

 

Cos

 

1) They just add to the numbers. Naam ke vaaste bowlers.

2) Cricket ain't a linear game.

 

 

Bingo.

 

Whose fault is it?

 

Management.

 

India have lost one series in 25 plus years so it is not big deal.We had waning players who were on last legs then and England was at its best.

 

Batting sucks , who are there to replace, Pujara and Rahane are not playing  to push the blame.

 

Fans have understand limitations. BCCI cannot manufacture players.

 

Aussies can play with 4 bowlers as their bowlers can bat and yet they choose to give extra batsman. Indian bowlers are not good enough to pick 20 wickets on a consistant basis with 4 bowlers.Hence the need for 5th bowler.

 

Praisdh was the hottest property by many experts , he was given chance to prove himself but he stunk, how is it TM's fault.

 

 

Aussies lost back to back home series against India and yet stuck to their 4 main bowlers.When you identify some players you stick with them during lean patches too.

 

Edited January 4 by putrevus

[R!TTER]

12 minutes ago, harpicP said:

Much much superior batting unit

Much much what? Did you see SS' avg in India this time around?  Labu is a joke as well as Marsh/Carey on anything except flat decks!

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Batsmen get lot of blame on this forum , some of it is fair and some of it is ridiculous.

 

in 2018 SA won two tests by setting 4th innings totals of 208 and 287. Batsmen were blasted for not chasing those totals.

 

2022 Batsmen gave them 240 in second test to defend, 210 in third test.So called great bowlers completely laid egg there.

 

England chased 340 plus as if it was walk in park against these great bowlers.

 

2016-2021 India would have become ATG team if fast the bowlers raised their level in crunch moments.

 

 

I think batting wise India missed having better option at #6-8.

 

SA and England have conditions where it becomes easier for batsmen later on. No matter what top order is bound to have average-poor returns as both teams have strong bowling attacks. So a batsman entering at #6 when ball is softer, bowlers are tired and scoring 70-80 is likely to have more impact. 

 

On 230-280 pitches there is huge difference between 20 runs v 5 runs of a tailender. This was main reason for their losses in 2018 England series.

 

Indian top order recieves lot of flak, but likes of Pujara, Rahane, Kohli or opener either did same or better than their counterparts from opposition on many ocassion.

 

Australia is place for top order or #1-4. Your top order needs to score centuries to have chances.

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

India have lost one series in 25 plus years so it is not big deal.We had waning players who were on last legs then and England was at its best.

 

Batting sucks , who are there to replace, Pujara and Rahane are not playing  to push the blame.

 

Fans have understand limitations. BCCI cannot manufacture players.

 

Aussies can play with 4 bowlers as their bowlers can bat and yet they choose to give extra batsman. Indian bowlers are not good enough to pick 20 wickets on a consistant basis with 4 bowlers.Hence the need for 5th bowler.

 

Praisdh was the hottest property by many experts , he was given chance to prove himself but he stunk, how is it TM's fault.

 

 

Aussies lost back to back home series against India and yet stuck to their 4 main bowlers.When you identify some players you stick with them during lean patches too.

 

All im saying is we underachieved due to batting mainly.

 

Bowling only started sucking overseas from 2021.

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

I think batting wise India missed having better option at #6-8.

 

SA and England have conditions where it becomes easier for batsmen later on. No matter what top order is bound to have average-poor returns as both teams have strong bowling attacks. So a batsman entering at #6 when ball is softer, bowlers are tired and scoring 70-80 is likely to have more impact. 

 

On 230-280 pitches there is huge difference between 20 runs v 5 runs of a tailender. This was main reason for their losses in 2018 England series.

 

Indian top order recieves lot of flak, but likes of Pujara, Rahane, Kohli or opener either did same or better than their counterparts from opposition on many ocassion.

 

Australia is place for top order or #1-4. Your top order needs to score centuries to have chances.

Spot on, India has been lacking the runs  6-8 .Plus Bowlers have been automatic outs. Credit to Bumrah for trying to improve his batting, him and Shami did win a test against England with their batting.

 

By The time Jadeja and Pant improved in 2021 England, Kohli and co completely lost it.

 

Rahul whines a lot but he stunk for two years where he was automatic out in almost all countries and he is incredibly lucky that Pant got injured .He has to thank his lucky stars that he has Dravid for his coach.

 

Problem with guys like Rahane and Rahul is they never were able to carry their form for a series, they have been one innings wonders.Rahane kept talking about him getting dropped in 2018 SA series for two tests  after England series where he played every test and scored one or two fifties in five tests.

 

 

Pant won them a series from number 6 in Australia.

 

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

But I was shocked to see it was Bucknor who helped us win the series in Eng.

 

The rain affected draw....Bucknor gave a plumb lbw not out in the end.

 

Some video on Youtube must have it.

Yeah #11 Sreesanth was plumb LBW, Panesar the bowler and Bucknor the umpire. We were extremely lucky, rain also played a big part in saving that test. 

Edited January 4 by Gollum

[Gollum]

2017- team had the ability to be our best ever but massively underachieved, fragile batting a big reason. Kohli alone carried us in 2017-18 RSA and 2018 Eng in a manner unheard of, yet we lost both those series cos no one supported him. 

 

Tbh 2009 NZ was pretty weak, nothing compared to their Baz/Kane led sides, and still we huffed and puffed to a 1-0 win in 2009. Nothing great about that victory IMO. And 2007 Eng involved luck, though cancelled by the bad luck in 2007-08 BGT. Drawing against that RSA team was a legit great feat, probably peak of that team even better than the series draw in 2003-04 Aus. 

 

But speaking of peak, nothing compares to India of 2020-21 BGT. Sure in terms of playing level, 2010-11 team that went to RSA or 2018-19 team that went to Aus were damn good but the gumption, never say die spirit, leadership, tactics/strategy the 2020-21 team showed has no equal. The squad that played in MCG, SCG, Gabba is the greatest one assembled by India in its history, despite missing some big names like Kohli, Shami. 

Edited January 4 by Gollum

[Vijy]

12 minutes ago, Gollum said:

2017- team had the ability to be our best ever but massively underachieved, fragile batting a big reason. Kohli alone carried us in 2017-18 RSA and 2018 Eng in a manner unheard of, yet we lost both those series cos no one supported him. 

 

Tbh 2009 NZ was pretty weak, nothing compared to their Baz/Kane led sides, and still we huffed and puffed to a 1-0 win in 2009. Nothing great about that victory IMO. And 2007 Eng involved luck, though cancelled by the bad luck in 2007-08 BGT. Drawing against that RSA team was a legit great feat, probably peak of that team even better than the series draw in 2003-04 Aus. 

 

But speaking of peak, nothing compares to India of 2020-21 BGT. Sure in terms of playing level, 2010-11 team that went to RSA or 2018-19 team that went to Aus were damn good but the gumption, never say die spirit, leadership, tactics/strategy the 2020-21 team showed has no equal. The squad that played in MCG, SCG, Gabba is the greatest one assembled by India in its history, despite missing some big names like Kohli, Shami. 

yes, 2020-21 was the best ever test series win by india ever.

[Gollum]

Unpopular opinion but this team missed out on a trick by not playing Ashwin-Jadeja together in many of the SENA tests. When they finally did in 2020 MCG we saw one of the greatest comebacks and both played extremely vital roles. Same story in SCG but roles reversed, this time Jadeja with ball and Ash with bat. 

 

2021 WTC final loss is unfairly pinned on selection of 2 spinners, diagnosis hi galat tha sabka, so many other things went wrong in that match. 4 pacers (2018 RSA 3rd test mein first put in use) was a good idea initially but only on certain kind of pitches and anyway we overused the template so much and it became a crazy obsession when 4th quick became a weak link. Sometimes this template is used in wrong pitches, or here for instance when an extra batsman would have been so much more useful.

 

Anyway missed opportunity as Ashwin, Jadeja are well past their prime. 

[Lord]

lol typical ICF

 

yesterday mood was 'Sack Dravid Sack everybody except my favorite player'

 

now 'are we best performing Indian team?

 

 

[sensible-indian]

8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

yes, 2020-21 was the best ever test series win by india ever.

By anyone ever. 

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Unpopular opinion but this team missed out on a trick by not playing Ashwin-Jadeja together in many of the SENA tests. When they finally did in 2020 MCG we saw one of the greatest comebacks and both played extremely vital roles. Same story in SCG but roles reversed, this time Jadeja with ball and Ash with bat. 

 

2021 WTC final loss is unfairly pinned on selection of 2 spinners, diagnosis hi galat tha sabka, so many other things went wrong in that match. 4 pacers (2018 RSA 3rd test mein first put in use) was a good idea initially but only on certain kind of pitches and anyway we overused the template so much and it became a crazy obsession when 4th quick became a weak link. Sometimes this template is used in wrong pitches, or here for instance when an extra batsman would have been so much more useful.

 

Anyway missed opportunity as Ashwin, Jadeja are well past their prime. 

 

It is because Ashwin's batting went down and Thakur was seen as equally effective and he did play some good knocks.

 

2 spinners works only if captain knows how to use them if its not turning.

[Vijy]

Just now, Lord said:

 

It is because Ashwin's batting went down and Thakur was seen as equally effective and he did play some good knocks.

 

2 spinners works only if captain knows how to use them if its not turning.

and of the 2, at least one needs to be a wicket taker (even if ER is high). a combo of jaddu & warne/murali would be deadly in most places. jaddu would give batting skill at 7 and control, whereas murali/warne would do well in most places (not all places, since no one is perfect)

[Lord]

53 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Spot on, India has been lacking the runs  6-8 .Plus Bowlers have been automatic outs. Credit to Bumrah for trying to improve his batting, him and Shami did win a test against England with their batting.

 

By The time Jadeja and Pant improved in 2021 England, Kohli and co completely lost it. 

 

Thats just wrong. Pant and Jadeja did well in 2018-19 and 2021 Aus tours too. 

 

They had been carrying our batting as top 5 was very poor especially Rahane and Pujara.

53 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Rahul whines a lot but he stunk for two years where he was automatic out in almost all countries and he is incredibly lucky that Pant got injured .He has to thank his lucky stars that he has Dravid for his coach.

 

Problem with guys like Rahane and Rahul is they never were able to carry their form for a series, they have been one innings wonders.Rahane kept talking about him getting dropped in 2018 SA series for two tests  after England series where he played every test and scored one or two fifties in five tests.

 

 

Pant won them a series from number 6 in Australia.

 

 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

and of the 2, at least one needs to be a wicket taker (even if ER is high). a combo of jaddu & warne/murali would be deadly in most places. jaddu would give batting skill at 7 and control, whereas murali/warne would do well in most places (not all places, since no one is perfect)

 

Thats exactly what works in India. Ashwin takes all the applause due to his bag of tricks and wicket taking ability whereas Jaddu provides no breathing space to opposition.

[putrevus]

2018-20 Indian team once Bumrah made his debut has pace spearhead who could put fear in opposing teams.Shami and Ishant were good but they always were supporting Bumrah.

 

Last 15 years we had one great all format batsman in Kohli .One great test batsmen also in Kohli. You cannot expect miracles when you have 3 out five walking wickets for most in Rahul, Rahane  Rohit and Dhawan or other openers plus bowlers who cannot bat a lick.

 

How can anyone say batting underachieved, they never were great to begin with in the first place.

 

[Gollum]

Biggest miss for this team was Pandya not playing tests. He could have been a vital cog as 4th seamer and plugged in so many holes, as batting AR. He had the ability, even fitness since I think of him as a batting AR with not much bowling workload. But he never had the heart or desire, chased the wrong things and will probably end his career as a what if. 

 

Had he put his mind on test cricket with conviction, we could have had 1 or 2 major victories (even one WTC final or a series win in RSA) putting this team as the undisputed greatest overseas performers.