Will Kohli's absence from BGT 2020-21 and Anthony de Mello 2024 affect his legacy?

[putrevus]

9 hours ago, nevada said:

He had pre-planned his exit after test 1, so it's true that he didn't abandon the team. But he couldn't digest the team winning without him and had his mouth piece Shastri and the media claim that it is Virat's team, he called up at midnight with great ideas, he has instilled toughness and character in the team and what not. Things got so toxic with jealous talk and noise that to cool down matters, Rahane had to issue a statement that it is Virat's team and he was only a stop gap captain. 

It was Virat's team , just because he left the team for three tests, it does not become Rahane' s team.Rahane was stop gap captain.

 

It is under Shastri and Kohli, Indian team became tough and competed in every nation. 

 

We are seeing how well Dravid and Rohit are doing now.

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It was Virat's team , just because he left the team for three tests, it does not become Rahane' s team.Rahane was stop gap captain.

 

It is under Shastri and Kohli, Indian team became tough and competed in every nation. 

 

We are seeing how well Dravid and Rohit are doing now.

 

 

Do you also own the Adelaide 36 a.o. as Virat's team?  There was admittedly something different about the team under Shastri/Rahane. A calm, low-pressure, high-freedom environment for youngsters, and they came through. Would they have taken the series with him at the helm?  We'll never know.

 

Kohli is a great India test bat and arguably the ODI GOAT. And everything you say about his toughness and dedication are true. Also, his current absence is not something fans should be questioning. 

 

But he ain't perfect. The team's rise from the ashes without him in BGT is a valid question to ask about his captaincy under the circumstances.  Was he too intense even when a soft touch was needed?

 

We can acknowledge his greatness while also questioning a few things and acknowledging the success of other people. It's not a zero-sum game.

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Do you also own the Adelaide 36 a.o. as Virat's team?  There was admittedly something different about the team under Shastri/Rahane. A calm, low-pressure, high-freedom environment for youngsters, and they came through. Would they have taken the series with him at the helm?  We'll never know.

 

Kohli is a great India test bat and arguably the ODI GOAT. And everything you say about his toughness and dedication are true. Also, his current absence is not something fans should be questioning. 

 

But he ain't perfect. The team's rise from the ashes without him in BGT is a valid question to ask about his captaincy under the circumstances.  Was he too intense even when a soft touch was needed?

 

We can acknowledge his greatness while also questioning a few things and acknowledging the success of other people. It's not a zero-sum game.

Yes, it was Virat team.See 36 all out happened under Virat, I don't think even Kohli will deny it.I don't see how it maligns his captaincy.

 

I always thought Shastri was better coach than overrated Kumble who thought he was bigger than the captain.People were mocking Shastri as some sort of puppet under Kohli. People started giving Shastri his due only after Kohli left Australia.

 

 

If Shastri had problem with Kohli, he would spill it on his face that is Shastri's personality.IMO thatis why Shastri was good coach.

 

 

No claimed Kohli as perfect, Kohli or Shastri were not perfect, they made their share of mistakes which every coach or captain will do and they never could win any trophy.

 

But Rohit and Dravid are totally ruining the fast bowling legacy which was started by Kohli and Shastri atleast in test cricket.

 

No one said Kohli  cannot be questioned.

 

 

[Chaos]

He made enough money for few generations, made his fame, got his 50 one day hundreds, bones a bollywood wife. Great story, now he can literally go fishing for a habit as he is really good at it…

[Vijy]

11 hours ago, Chaos said:

He made enough money for few generations, made his fame, got his 50 one day hundreds, bones a bollywood wife. Great story, now he can literally go fishing for a habit as he is really good at it…

he will probably take it easy from hereon

[Adamant]

On 2/12/2024 at 12:01 PM, sensible-indian said:

VVS might be regarded as an inferior bat to Kohli....

 

But in an all time XI, if there's a battle between these 2....I know who I am going for.

Imagine Kohli in a non lead role at no. 5 in tests, right after Sachin.

 

He would have create way more Impact than VVS Laxman, who was a rescue act instead of being a great lead batsman, its always easy when you are not the lead as pressure is less.

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

Imagine Kohli in a non lead role at no. 5 in tests, right after Sachin.

 

He would have create way more Impact than VVS Laxman, who was a rescue act instead of being a great lead batsman, its always easy when you are not the lead as pressure is less.

 

I get you and you raise a good point.

 

I wish there were more in-depth stat analysis pointing out what could have happened in different scenarios.

 

Kohli is a on-off batsman. When he is on, he truly is on.

 

With that being said, in Laxman's position, you need players who are more clutch than volume scorers (this is based on my observation - wish there were statistical analysis reg this).

 

So a team is much better off with a player like Laxman, Damien Martyn, Steve Waugh, Gundappa Vishwanath than a run machine for that position.

 

In WC 2011 finals - it wasn't our legends Sachin and Sehwag who turned the game around for us...but it was Gambhir and Kohli (both risk free run scorers) who helped us weather the storm and steadied the ship.

 

It's not about the name but about the role. A team has to have all the checkboxes filled.

Edited February 24 by sensible-indian

[Vijy]

it is looking more like Kohli's decision to skip this series was a masterstroke. when we lose 3-2, it will give plenty of ammunition to fans to state that, if he had played, we would have won, i.e., this absence will greatly boost his reputation

[Gambit]

Missing in two of our best series wins in the last 5 years.

[sensible-indian]

25 minutes ago, Gambit said:

Missing in two of our best series wins in the last 5 years.

And went missing with the bat in the third (2017).

[R!TTER]

On 2/24/2024 at 8:32 PM, Vijy said:

it is looking more like Kohli's decision to skip this series was a masterstroke. when we lose 3-2, it will give plenty of ammunition to fans to state that, if he had played, we would have won, i.e., this absence will greatly boost his reputation

Too bad for him his plan was foiled by Rahane & Co in Oz & now RGS in this series!

[Gollum]

If he suddenly makes himself available for IPL, he will get loads of criticism. At a time when Smith is trying to reinvent himself, Root also, and Kane piling on the runs. 

[Forever Indian]

28 minutes ago, Gollum said:

If he suddenly makes himself available for IPL, he will get loads of criticism. At a time when Smith is trying to reinvent himself, Root also, and Kane piling on the runs. 

he will obviously be back for IPL, but will not get much criticism - atleast that's how BCCI and his fans will portray about how India missed seeing him bat and how much his presence will lift up RCB!!!

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

And went missing with the bat in the third (2017).

I think the 2016 home series vs England is underrated, especially because of the final scoreline. 

 

But back then we had serious mental block against them, scars of 2012, our team was also quite young taking on some big names from Eng like Cook, Root, Stokes, Broad, Anderson. Kohli had his personal demons vs Anderson, the impact of his 2014 series in Eng which gave lots of ammunition to his detractors. 

 

The way Eng dominated us in Rajkot, we all were nervous back then. Kohli had a big role in saving the 1st test, and his knocks in Vizag, Mumbai were clutch. His contribution in that series should be talked about more. 

[rollingstoned]

8 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I think the 2016 home series vs England is underrated, especially because of the final scoreline. 

 

But back then we had serious mental block against them, scars of 2012, our team was also quite young taking on some big names from Eng like Cook, Root, Stokes, Broad, Anderson. Kohli had his personal demons vs Anderson, the impact of his 2014 series in Eng which gave lots of ammunition to his detractors. 

 

The way Eng dominated us in Rajkot, we all were nervous back then. Kohli had a big role in saving the 1st test, and his knocks in Vizag, Mumbai were clutch. His contribution in that series should be talked about more. 

That series was peak Kohli for me. Last time I felt like he was this unstoppable force of nature that you couldn't ever really dismiss if he wanted it badly. It felt like he would go onto better Tendulkar's numbers back then.

[Gollum]

3 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

That series was peak Kohli for me. Last time I felt like he was this unstoppable force of nature that you couldn't ever really dismiss if he wanted it badly. It felt like he would go onto better Tendulkar's numbers back then.

Ashwin scored 300+ runs, picked 30 wickets that series. Still Kohli won MOTS, that's how dominant and impactful Kohli was. 

[sensible-indian]

18 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I think the 2016 home series vs England is underrated, especially because of the final scoreline. 

 

But back then we had serious mental block against them, scars of 2012, our team was also quite young taking on some big names from Eng like Cook, Root, Stokes, Broad, Anderson. Kohli had his personal demons vs Anderson, the impact of his 2014 series in Eng which gave lots of ammunition to his detractors. 

 

The way Eng dominated us in Rajkot, we all were nervous back then. Kohli had a big role in saving the 1st test, and his knocks in Vizag, Mumbai were clutch. His contribution in that series should be talked about more. 

I agree. That series was huge.

 

In fact, our batting **** the bed in that series and we were under the pump a few times.

 

But Kohli, Ashwin, Jaddu and Jayant Yadav saved us with the bat.

 

Pujara performed in some games and KL in one of them (that 199).

 

And of course, the Karun Nair knock.

[Gollum]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

I agree. That series was huge.

 

In fact, our batting **** the bed in that series and we were under the pump a few times.

 

But Kohli, Ashwin, Jaddu and Jayant Yadav saved us with the bat.

 

Pujara performed in some games and KL in one of them (that 199).

 

And of course, the Karun Nair knock.

Vijay also got a couple of 100s IIRC. Him and Pujara both batted well but got overshadowed by peak Kohli. 

[Gollum]

13 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

That series was peak Kohli for me. Last time I felt like he was this unstoppable force of nature that you couldn't ever really dismiss if he wanted it badly. It felt like he would go onto better Tendulkar's numbers back then.

Kohli batted like he had a point to prove that series, immense focus and hunger. Sky panel wasn't kind to him in 2014 series, English media/pundits, ex-cricketers all took digs at him. He smashed their arrogance in 2016 and then 2018 away. 

[sensible-indian]

14 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Vijay also got a couple of 100s IIRC. Him and Pujara both batted well but got overshadowed by peak Kohli. 

Oh yes...They batted well but it was such a high scoring series.

 

First test - We almost lost until Kohli batted for time supported by Ashwin and Jaddu who scored 30 each on the final day, final session.

 

Second test - Comfortable win

 

Third test - Eng scored 283. We were down at 204-6 with Kohli gone (and supposed to bat last) but lower order resistance pushed the total to 417.

 

Fourth test - We were again 6 down with 100 run deficit...Kohli and Jayant Yadav took the game away from them.

 

Fifth test - Comfortable win

 

It was a crazy and weird series.

 

Maybe I was harsh with my comment that batting **** the bed.

 

Lots of runs were scored.

 

Lots made centuries.

 

Yet we were in danger in 3 out of 5 tests but Kohli (& lower order) bailed us out.

 

But other bats scored too.

 

I shudder to think what would happen if our current batting lineup played that series. lol.

Edited February 26 by sensible-indian