To save India.. we need a strong opposition otherwise BJP will destroy the country

[straighttalk]

On 4/3/2024 at 7:33 AM, mishra said:

 We are better off without Such kind of third grade opposition thinking

I agree when corruption is on the forefront . You dont have a defense but to call others third grade

[straighttalk]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:32 AM, coffee_rules said:

Read about how communal riots have decreased enormously after 2014! 

Agreed.. just like there are no communal riots in Pakistan Saudi Arabia etc . Same goes for BJP ruled India.. 

[straighttalk]

On 4/4/2024 at 2:40 PM, mishra said:

^ Because BJP has delivered what.they promised. Also BJP has no alternative for now.  Congress rule was a rule of non delivery.
 

only one thing left. We want all corrupts to be pushed into prison. 

Exactly how is Congress rule a rule of non delivery

 

1. Who built the first nuke

2. Who liberated Bangladesh

3. Who established iits and a culture of science and education

4. Who built isro

5. Who liberated the economy

6. Was Indias growth bad until 2014.. of course there were bad periods during global recession.

 

 

Was Congress poor in many respects? Yes. So is modi and BJP. Question is who rules by dividing society and people . By murdering people in terms of religion. Modi might be a good administrator but India would be better off with a strong opposition who is competent and secular too. I don't care about bjp or Congress .. I would rather have a strong democratic country where pet oligarchs not rule roost 

[straighttalk]

On 4/3/2024 at 5:37 AM, randomGuy said:

Question to OP, Did Maratha/Sikh empires need Mughals? Not saying all opposition are showing such traits but some part of opposition is showing such traits.

I don't understand the reference... Having a strong opposition doesn't mean having a opposition that is Muslim or evil . It means having a good leader irrespective of religion who is competent honest and does not indulge in bloodshed in the name of religion

[AuxiliA]

18 minutes ago, straighttalk said:

Agreed.. just like there are no communal riots in Pakistan Saudi Arabia etc . Same goes for BJP ruled India.. 

 

What a stupid logic! 

 

Do you realize how much things were bad in a state like UP before Yogi took over? Even MPs and MLAs were being gunned down by AK-47s in broad daylight, forget about the common citizen. People back then were even afraid to go out in dark in many places. 

 

Today even UP has far less political violence than places like West Bengal, Punjab and Kerala which are ruled by leftist/Non-BJP parties. 

 

[Muloghonto]

19 minutes ago, straighttalk said:

Exactly how is Congress rule a rule of non delivery

 

1. Who built the first nuke

2. Who liberated Bangladesh

3. Who established iits and a culture of science and education

4. Who built isro

5. Who liberated the economy

6. Was Indias growth bad until 2014.. of course there were bad periods during global recession.

 

 

Was Congress poor in many respects? Yes. So is modi and BJP. Question is who rules by dividing society and people . By murdering people in terms of religion. Modi might be a good administrator but India would be better off with a strong opposition who is competent and secular too. I don't care about bjp or Congress .. I would rather have a strong democratic country where pet oligarchs not rule roost 

 

Congress rule is a rule of non delivery beause congress had nearly 50 years of almost uninterrupted rule and still managed to be an absolute total fail at the economy. And even when someone had the basic economic knowledge to do the right thing, like MMS, he was retarded enough to overly focus on a high skill service sector like IT and not manufacturing, knowing fully well that IT or service industry CANNOT be the ticket to affluence for a nation of 1 billion (at the time) as it cannot create anywhere as many well paying jobs as manufacturing can. 

 

How bad congress rule was, is shown in a simple statistic - Modi period has seen more water connections, electricity connections and roads build (in kms) than the entire congress period prior, which has been nearly five times longer. 

 

This is just demonstrating one section of total fail of congress - economy and infrastrcture. 
If i were to go into details of how congress is the SOLE reason for pakistan's continued existence, for pakistan having the ability to cause kashmir pandit exodus, total failure during 1965 war with China (which is on congress, aka nehru himself) and numerous foreign policy and geopolitical blunders, then i will have to write a 3000 word essay on the topic. 

 

We dont want a secular competitor. Because we cannot have secularism with religions who's official and fundamental policy is total supremacy at any cost - islam and christianity. If this was fellow dharmic of any other blend of non abrahamic religions in the country, i'd agree for a strong secular opposition, but in our climate, with a strong hindu party, the meaning of a secular party will be a pro-muslim & pro-christian party. Which is a mantle already assumed by congress and AAP is making it clear they also want to be part of that mantle, along with DMK & Trinamool. 

Ergo, we are not going to allow the anti-hindu forces to coalesce into any manner of strength. 

 

[Muloghonto]

24 minutes ago, straighttalk said:

I don't understand the reference... Having a strong opposition doesn't mean having a opposition that is Muslim or evil . It means having a good leader irrespective of religion who is competent honest and does not indulge in bloodshed in the name of religion

 

Strong opposition doesnt necessarily mean pro-muslim in theory, but in realpolitk terms and in reality, it does. BJP has cornered the market at being the hindu party. There are only two conceivable parties that can challenge BJP in that, in my lifetime and that is Shiv Sena & BJD. Well, SS took a humongous step back in its hinduvta credentials over the last 5 years- it may even have damaged it irreparably. BJD is too much of a regional orya party but they will have to go far past the patnaik family power structure to become the national hindu party and not just be orya hindu party. 

Since BJP has cornered the hindu vote market ( and is going to corner it even more, as BJP hasnt reached its zenith of gaining hindu votes), the easist path to being the opposition is obviously trying to corner the anti-hindu vote market. Which lies with the muslims, commies & christian vote market. And as long as you are stronger in your vote base than bjp is in its ( as in higher % of muslims + christians voting anti-bjp than hindus voting bjp), you will always remain as the most credible opposition party in India and if you get  a bit lucky with hindu complacency ( as hindus tend to vote a lot less with hinduvta ideals than actual good governance, economy & security ideals) , you may win a term or two as well. 

This is the clear cut plan of the opposition, which is why you see highly anti-hindu statements/actions from Congress, Trinamool,DMK, AAP, CPM etc. They arent stupid either - if we can figure out what is the easiest path to being the second largest party in India, so can they. 

Which is also why we are not going to let go of the chokehold we have over the opposition anytime soon either, beause their existence, by definition will be to screw the majority to empower the minority - which has another name : Elitist subjugation of the majority. In this case, the elitists wont be foreign invaders, they will be those who hold foreign origin religions and ideologies. 

 

[AuxiliA]

25 minutes ago, straighttalk said:

Exactly how is Congress rule a rule of non delivery

 

1. Who built the first nuke

2. Who liberated Bangladesh

3. Who established iits and a culture of science and education

4. Who built isro

5. Who liberated the economy

6. Was Indias growth bad until 2014.. of course there were bad periods during global recession.

 

 

Was Congress poor in many respects? Yes. So is modi and BJP. Question is who rules by dividing society and people . By murdering people in terms of religion. Modi might be a good administrator but India would be better off with a strong opposition who is competent and secular too. I don't care about bjp or Congress .. I would rather have a strong democratic country where pet oligarchs not rule roost 

 

I fully agree on having a strong opposition. But that opposition also has to be democratic and not ruled by a few dynastic families. Even the grand old party like Congress has been fully hijacked by a single family.

 

Congress ruled for more than 55 years, should have done a hell lot more. Until 1990, after being ruled by a single family for 40 years, we were bankrupt and far behind even Pakistan on all indicators! 43 years lost.

 

Take a look at the constituencies of Amethi and Rae Bareli which voted for the Gandhi family members since independence. They are underdeveloped even by UP standards. On the contrary see how much Varanasi has improved under Modi in just 10 years.

[Muloghonto]

20 minutes ago, AuxiliA said:

 

I fully agree on having a strong opposition. But that opposition also has to be democratic and not ruled by a few dynastic families. Even the grand old party like Congress has been fully hijacked by a single family.

 

Congress ruled for more than 55 years, should have done a hell lot more. Until 1990, after being ruled by a single family for 40 years, we were bankrupt and far behind even Pakistan on all indicators! 43 years lost.

 

Take a look at the constituencies of Amethi and Rae Bareli which voted for the Gandhi family members since independence. They are underdeveloped even by UP standards. On the contrary see how much Varanasi has improved under Modi in just 10 years.

 

Its simplistic and intuitive to say that india needs strong opposition, but its actually wrong. Last thing india needs is a strong opposition, because as i have explained above and as can be empricially confirmed with election manifestos, statements and actions of the opposition parties currently, opposition parties can only be opposition if they are staunchly anti hindu, as bjp has cornered the hindu votes and will continue its march to gain even more hindu votes. 

But BJP needs to be kept honest. Therefore, what india needs, is another hindu party, who ideally would become a needed coalition member for bjp or at least big enough to be the party you need to change constitution (for the bjp). This is the scenario where bjp will be forced to look behind its back for another hindu party breathing down its neck and will gain power at every bjp mis-step or half-action. 

 

[rangeelaraja]

43 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Its simplistic and intuitive to say that india needs strong opposition, but its actually wrong. Last thing india needs is a strong opposition, because as i have explained above and as can be empricially confirmed with election manifestos, statements and actions of the opposition parties currently, opposition parties can only be opposition if they are staunchly anti hindu, as bjp has cornered the hindu votes and will continue its march to gain even more hindu votes. 

But BJP needs to be kept honest. Therefore, what india needs, is another hindu party, who ideally would become a needed coalition member for bjp or at least big enough to be the party you need to change constitution (for the bjp). This is the scenario where bjp will be forced to look behind its back for another hindu party breathing down its neck and will gain power at every bjp mis-step or half-action. 

 

 

Agree in principal and this has always been my thought process.   

 

But for this to happen - the H vote bank has to be  consolidated a lot more than what it is now - otherwise the votes will be spilt between a far right H party and

right of center ( BJP) Hindu party and the secular cabal will win all the swing seats.

 

BJP got just 37 % of the voteshare in 2019 despite a thumping seat victory in Lok Sabha 2019 - it shows the H votebank is not consolidated and BJP won because of astute planning.

 

Step 1 : Consolidate H vote - this has been the biggest challenge for BJP since its inception. Even the Ram Mandir issue has not succeeding in doing this adequately.

We have Hindus to blame almost entirely for allowing secular fraud appeasement parties to thrive ( both at center and at state level )

 

A large part of the H votebank are SC/ST/OBC who will only vote for BJP if they are given freebies, reservation and govt jobs.

 

BJP has been trying really hard to pull them into the BJP fold decisively.

 

Step 2: Institute another H party that is far right H.  I would love it if at some point Yogi Adityanath splits and forms his own political party - believe you me - lots of voters from UP, Gujarat, MH, Karnataka - much prefer his style than right of center. This will ensure the fake single minority appeasement votebank politics in India becomes history.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, straighttalk said:

Agreed.. just like there are no communal riots in Pakistan Saudi Arabia etc . Same goes for BJP ruled India.. 

I said decreased , straw man 

[mishra]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Its simplistic and intuitive to say that india needs strong opposition, but its actually wrong. Last thing india needs is a strong opposition, because as i have explained above and as can be empricially confirmed with election manifestos, statements and actions of the opposition parties currently, opposition parties can only be opposition if they are staunchly anti hindu, as bjp has cornered the hindu votes and will continue its march to gain even more hindu votes. 

But BJP needs to be kept honest. Therefore, what india needs, is another hindu party, who ideally would become a needed coalition member for bjp or at least big enough to be the party you need to change constitution (for the bjp). This is the scenario where bjp will be forced to look behind its back for another hindu party breathing down its neck and will gain power at every bjp mis-step or half-action. 

 

Strong opposition is flawed concept in Indian journey. Labor vs Conservative, Democrat vs Republican. India is still finding its feet and trying to get rid of Family Rule. Every where it ois being ruled by a family. BJP is only party which is fighting this mentality. Only when it has completely won against Family rule, Only then we can see shoots of principal based politics in India. Till then a idea of India Against Corruption (IAC) will turn into tools of Family based Party or convert into pricipal less Kejriwal party.

[Muloghonto]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:20 AM, rangeelaraja said:

 

Agree in principal and this has always been my thought process.   

 

But for this to happen - the H vote bank has to be  consolidated a lot more than what it is now - otherwise the votes will be spilt between a far right H party and

right of center ( BJP) Hindu party and the secular cabal will win all the swing seats.

 

BJP got just 37 % of the voteshare in 2019 despite a thumping seat victory in Lok Sabha 2019 - it shows the H votebank is not consolidated and BJP won because of astute planning.

 

For all the talk of BJP being hinduvta party, its process of consolidating  hindu vote bank is only 10-ish years old. Hindu vote bank will continue to get consolidated by the BJP, which is why i said that it hasnt peaked in its hindu vote share yet. 

 

Another reason why BJP will have a slow going process for consolidating hindu votes- and i dont mind this reason- is because India is the most advanced and diverse democracy there is politically. We have dozens of parties to choose from across the nation and even at local booth level we have 5-8 options to vote for. 
We are not a primitive binary political system as you see in US or UK or a spicy binary system like you see in Canada ( where its still effectively two party rule but the other 2 parties get to play kingmaker/able chamchaa if either of the two main parties fail to get majority). 

 

 

On 4/30/2024 at 2:20 AM, rangeelaraja said:

 

Step 1 : Consolidate H vote - this has been the biggest challenge for BJP since its inception. Even the Ram Mandir issue has not succeeding in doing this adequately.

We have Hindus to blame almost entirely for allowing secular fraud appeasement parties to thrive ( both at center and at state level )

 

A large part of the H votebank are SC/ST/OBC who will only vote for BJP if they are given freebies, reservation and govt jobs.

 

BJP has been trying really hard to pull them into the BJP fold decisively.

the process of consolidating hindu vote bank requires greater media management and exposure to hindumisia for the hindus, as hindu religion is highly accepting of other religions, while abrahamic religions don't need reasons like 'they hate us and are screwing with us' to be brought forth to hate hindus, as their religion is openly and officially hateful towards hindus as a matter of ideology. 

 

BJP realised this during the transition from Atal-Advani years to Modi-Shah years : that to consolidate hindu votes, we can't rely on 'being bhagwaa and doing more for hinduism', we have to draw attention to the hindumisia in christian,islamic and leftist circles to show the people that we are being attacked.

On 4/30/2024 at 2:20 AM, rangeelaraja said:

 

Step 2: Institute another H party that is far right H.  I would love it if at some point Yogi Adityanath splits and forms his own political party - believe you me - lots of voters from UP, Gujarat, MH, Karnataka - much prefer his style than right of center. This will ensure the fake single minority appeasement votebank politics in India becomes history.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes, this will come eventually. But i think hindu far right party has to come before BJP cosolidates the hindu vote. If far right hindu party comes after BJP consolidates the hindu base, we will get into the cycle Savarkar predicted - where the incumbent party that has consolidated hindu vote, will see the upstart party as ' too radical and twisting the ethos of hinduism' and either try to discredit them or, if failing in that, turn more or more secular/muslim appeasing. This is exactly what happened with congress when bjp showed up because congress had already consolidated the hindu vote. 

We need active competition for hindu vote, not a power struggle between the consolidated hindu vote party and an upstart ultra-hindu party.

 

[straighttalk]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:48 PM, AuxiliA said:

 

What a stupid logic! 

 

Do you realize how much things were bad in a state like UP before Yogi took over? Even MPs and MLAs were being gunned down by AK-47s in broad daylight, forget about the common citizen. People back then were even afraid to go out in dark in many places. 

 

Today even UP has far less political violence than places like West Bengal, Punjab and Kerala which are ruled by leftist/Non-BJP parties. 

 

I thought that Jungliraaj is still being propagated under Yogiji and his goons..

 

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/atiq-to-brother-to-mukhtar-ansari-in-7-yrs-10-gangsters-died-in-up-police-custody-or-jail-9241118/

[straighttalk]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:57 PM, AuxiliA said:

 

I fully agree on having a strong opposition. But that opposition also has to be democratic and not ruled by a few dynastic families. Even the grand old party like Congress has been fully hijacked by a single family.

 

Congress ruled for more than 55 years, should have done a hell lot more. Until 1990, after being ruled by a single family for 40 years, we were bankrupt and far behind even Pakistan on all indicators! 43 years lost.

 

Take a look at the constituencies of Amethi and Rae Bareli which voted for the Gandhi family members since independence. They are underdeveloped even by UP standards. On the contrary see how much Varanasi has improved under Modi in just 10 years.

You and I are now taking the same thing.. I'm not advocating replacing modi with Gandhi.. I'm advocating for a opposition that can keep a govt in check with an independent media and providing a viable option... I am not advocating for inept congress to replace modi.. but Indias current trajectory under Modi is concerning.. only hope is the leaders after modi on bjp do not inspire hope and thankfully they will lose power.. 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, straighttalk said:

I thought that Jungliraaj is still being propagated under Yogiji and his goons..

 

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/atiq-to-brother-to-mukhtar-ansari-in-7-yrs-10-gangsters-died-in-up-police-custody-or-jail-9241118/

You don’t know what is called jungleraj. What Yogi is doing is cleaning up of jungleraj system. All the goondas used to run the streets earlier

[AuxiliA]

5 hours ago, straighttalk said:

I thought that Jungliraaj is still being propagated under Yogiji and his goons..

 

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/atiq-to-brother-to-mukhtar-ansari-in-7-yrs-10-gangsters-died-in-up-police-custody-or-jail-9241118/

 

Lol Man I just can't believe you posted THIS to prove your point. 

 

Are you for real? No wonder less and less people are taking the 'leftists' seriously in the country now. They are so out of touch with the ground reality. 

 

Crying over the death of dreaded gangsters/terrorists who used to terrorise the  entire region. That's actually the biggest achievement of Yogi.

 

[AuxiliA]

5 hours ago, straighttalk said:

You and I are now taking the same thing.. I'm not advocating replacing modi with Gandhi.. I'm advocating for a opposition that can keep a govt in check with an independent media and providing a viable option... I am not advocating for inept congress to replace modi.. but Indias current trajectory under Modi is concerning.. only hope is the leaders after modi on bjp do not inspire hope and thankfully they will lose power.. 

 

 

Media is always biased and never 'independent' anywhere in the world. Everyone picks their sides. That's the reality.

 

The fact that the opposition is inept is not Modi's fault. Biggest problem in the opposition is rampant nepotism which produces only Pappus.

 

"India's current trajectory under Modi is concerning" - That's just your opinion and you are entitled to it. Many would find India's trajectory under the 'leftist' parties 'concerning'. 

 

[rangeelaraja]

13 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

 

yes, this will come eventually. But i think hindu far right party has to come before BJP cosolidates the hindu vote. If far right hindu party comes after BJP consolidates the hindu base, we will get into the cycle Savarkar predicted - where the incumbent party that has consolidated hindu vote, will see the upstart party as ' too radical and twisting the ethos of hinduism' and either try to discredit them or, if failing in that, turn more or more secular/muslim appeasing. This is exactly what happened with congress when bjp showed up because congress had already consolidated the hindu vote. 

We need active competition for hindu vote, not a power struggle between the consolidated hindu vote party and an upstart ultra-hindu party.

 

 

Agree 100 %

 

Brilliant post.  Explains the problem BJP is currently facing wresting control of the entire H votebank from Congress. 

 

Congress M appeasement wasn't there till BJP showed up. 

 

Edited May 2, 2024 by rangeelaraja