Has there ever been a player who has come out smaller in knockouts than Kohli?

[Bigg Brother]

He should stop coming down the ground. He isn't six hitter but he definitely can maneuver field and play 4s in PP.  He is getting out on ugly looking hoicks and brainless shots which is unacceptable. 

[Kron]

On 6/28/2024 at 3:07 AM, Jamadagni said:

2011 WC Final - 35 - Very crucial partnership with Gambhir. 

2013 CT final - 43 - Highest scorer

2014 T20 WC semis - 72* 

2014 T20 WC final - 77 - Would have been match-winning if not for Yuvi. 

2016 T20 WC QF vs Australia - 80* - ATG knock

2016 T20 semis - 89* - Just check Rohit's and Rahane's innings in the same match. 

2023 WC Semis - 117 - He had a specific role in the team for that WC and did well throughout the world cup. 

2023 WC final - 54 - Compare this with the loser's knock in the partnership at the other end. Kohli was striking at 90 and did well. 

 

These are all knockout matches, and there are numerous other matches especially vs Pakistan where has done very well almost every time. 

 

This is the first ODI WC or T20 WC where he has completely failed. I'd also blame Rohit and Dravid more for this as they wanted to have that loser Dube in the XI. If Kohli was captain, he wouldn't have opened for sure. 

 

What's even this thread about?

Now for failures

 

2015 - failed in odi semi finals

2019 -, failed in semi finals useless

2021 wtc failed in both innings

 

2023 wtc final failed in both innings

2022 - t20 semis lol failed

2024 absolute fodder now

 

He only did good in t20 that's it

 

He has failed in odi wcs every time since 2015 until the very recent one on absolute pattas vs nz in 2023. 

 

In odi since 2015 strike rate matters too. He failed in every aspect

 

Also in 2017 champions toephy finals he failed again. 

[Sandz]

On 6/28/2024 at 3:07 AM, Jamadagni said:

2011 WC Final - 35 - Very crucial partnership with Gambhir. 

2013 CT final - 43 - Highest scorer

2014 T20 WC semis - 72* 

2014 T20 WC final - 77 - Would have been match-winning if not for Yuvi. 

2016 T20 WC QF vs Australia - 80* - ATG knock

2016 T20 semis - 89* - Just check Rohit's and Rahane's innings in the same match. 

2023 WC Semis - 117 - He had a specific role in the team for that WC and did well throughout the world cup. 

2023 WC final - 54 - Compare this with the loser's knock in the partnership at the other end. Kohli was striking at 90 and did well. 

 

These are all knockout matches, and there are numerous other matches especially vs Pakistan where has done very well almost every time. 

 

This is the first ODI WC or T20 WC where he has completely failed. I'd also blame Rohit and Dravid more for this as they wanted to have that loser Dube in the XI. If Kohli was captain, he wouldn't have opened for sure. 

 

What's even this thread about?

Most of his good knocks were 8-10 years ago, 2023 semi was a poor knock considering the pitch and opposition. 
 

How long is he going to milk that? The issue here is that he is a misfit in T20s, the World has moved on to power hitting which he can’t adapt to, hitting a boundary and nudging for a single hasn’t worked for a long time.

[R!TTER]

9 minutes ago, Sandz said:

2023 semi was a poor knock considering the pitch and opposition. 
 

2023 SF was a bad game, for sure especially given the BS about 50th ton, but he was the best batter in the finals for us! Regardless of RGS' up front assault it was actually Kohli who played the best innings - for a change risk free, almost run a ball & still trying to counter the crucial loss of wickets at the top! While I'd agree that in general he's failed regularly in World Cups almost like clockwork but we can't forget his good, almost great innings, in the final. If he stayed till the end India would've scored at least 50 more!

[Sandz]

4 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

2023 SF was a bad game, for sure especially given the BS about 50th ton, but he was the best batter in the finals for us! Regardless of RGS' up front assault it was actually Kohli who played the best innings - for a change risk free, almost run a ball & still trying to counter the crucial loss of wickets at the top! While I'd agree that in general he's failed regularly in World Cups almost like clockwork but we can't forget his good, almost great innings, in the final. If he stayed till the end India would've scored at least 50 more!

I don’t blame him for the 2023 final loss, it was the rest of the batting group that failed.

[raki05]

22 hours ago, Frustrated said:

We hv won 8 out of 8 matches with Kohli contributing nothing at all.   Team Ind should go with 10 players henceforth, if ICC allows that.  

9 to be precise there is scare crow dube as well.

[jf1gp_1]

Start of final is still few hrs away. Reading post on this forum makes me wonder if everyone is secretly hoping for Kohli, Dube to fail and India to lose so that they can write I knew it or I had predicted this

[Frustrated]

2 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Start of final is still few hrs away. Reading post on this forum makes me wonder if everyone is secretly hoping for Kohli, Dube to fail and India to lose so that they can write I knew it or I had predicted this

Correction: True Indian fans desperately want Ind to win the title. They are simply scared of the fact that luck may eventually run out in the Final, with proven failures in the team (kohli & dube).   Everytime we may not get to witness a Rohit special or a SKY special.  Law of average may caught up.   And it's not as if there is no replacement for Dube.  Jaiswal is a proven performer in intl games against top teams.   I understand Kohli can't be dropped at this crucial stage (bada naam he).   But Dube? Seriously?   Is he worth playing as a specialist batter?  

[jf1gp_1]

22 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Correction: True Indian fans desperately want Ind to win the title. They are simply scared of the fact that luck may eventually run out in the Final, with proven failures in the team (kohli & dube).   Everytime we may not get to witness a Rohit special or a SKY special.  Law of average may caught up.   And it's not as if there is no replacement for Dube.  Jaiswal is a proven performer in intl games against top teams.   I understand Kohli can't be dropped at this crucial stage (bada naam he).   But Dube? Seriously?   Is he worth playing as a specialist batter?  

You think anyone who has followed the game doesn't know the history of Kohli or Dubes skill. Everyone understands it but what's the point of debating the same point again and again till we haven't lost. I mean law of averages is only for Rohit and Sky but not for Kohli and Dube. 

 

Just accept it you want India to lose and then create 200 threads on why we lost and how all mighty 'Frustated' knows all the evils in India cricket. I wasn't expecting us to reach semis but now we are in final and I want Kohli to smash a 100, unlike you who wants him to fail. 

[Frustrated]

3 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

I wasn't expecting us to reach semis but now we are in final and I want Kohli to smash a 100, unlike you who wants him to fail. 

I might hv criticized kohli a thousand times.  Even his best of fanboys hv started criticising his batting. 8 matches is not a small sample.   But  can u show me a post where I hv written that I want Kohli to fail in the Final?  

[The Dark Horse]

On 6/27/2024 at 10:37 PM, Jamadagni said:

2011 WC Final - 35 - Very crucial partnership with Gambhir. 

2013 CT final - 43 - Highest scorer

2014 T20 WC semis - 72* 

2014 T20 WC final - 77 - Would have been match-winning if not for Yuvi. 

2016 T20 WC QF vs Australia - 80* - ATG knock

2016 T20 semis - 89* - Just check Rohit's and Rahane's innings in the same match. 

2023 WC Semis - 117 - He had a specific role in the team for that WC and did well throughout the world cup. 

2023 WC final - 54 - Compare this with the loser's knock in the partnership at the other end. Kohli was striking at 90 and did well. 

 

These are all knockout matches, and there are numerous other matches especially vs Pakistan where has done very well almost every time. 

 

This is the first ODI WC or T20 WC where he has completely failed. I'd also blame Rohit and Dravid more for this as they wanted to have that loser Dube in the XI. If Kohli was captain, he wouldn't have opened for sure. 

 

What's even this thread about?

Exactly, every player goes through a rough patch. Also I've been seeing Ashwin's YouTube discussions. It seems the current Indian team has a strategy in T20s and even though Kohli's natural instinct is not that he has stuck to the team's agenda. Hope he comes good in the final.

[jf1gp_1]

26 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

I might hv criticized kohli a thousand times.  Even his best of fanboys hv started criticising his batting. 8 matches is not a small sample.   But  can u show me a post where I hv written that I want Kohli to fail in the Final?  

Implied.

 

You could have easily written Kohli is due well law of averages so who knows but you didn't. There is a thread on India should lose its blessing in disguise and other absolutely rubbish post by whole bunch of people.

 

Arre we have a final in few hrs. All the gyaan can be kept for tomorrow incase we lose. Heck ill join you but today lets be positive. 

[New guy]

On 6/27/2024 at 10:37 PM, Jamadagni said:

2011 WC Final - 35 - Very crucial partnership with Gambhir. 

2013 CT final - 43 - Highest scorer

2014 T20 WC semis - 72* 

2014 T20 WC final - 77 - Would have been match-winning if not for Yuvi. 

2016 T20 WC QF vs Australia - 80* - ATG knock

2016 T20 semis - 89* - Just check Rohit's and Rahane's innings in the same match. 

2023 WC Semis - 117 - He had a specific role in the team for that WC and did well throughout the world cup. 

2023 WC final - 54 - Compare this with the loser's knock in the partnership at the other end. Kohli was striking at 90 and did well. 

 

These are all knockout matches, and there are numerous other matches especially vs Pakistan where has done very well almost every time. 

 

This is the first ODI WC or T20 WC where he has completely failed. I'd also blame Rohit and Dravid more for this as they wanted to have that loser Dube in the XI. If Kohli was captain, he wouldn't have opened for sure. 

 

What's even this thread about?

The fact that some of T20s knocks are being considered good knocks is exactly whats wrong with our T20 mindset. Look at 2014 final for example.

 

Playing slow initially and then hitting later does NOT help the team even if your end strike rate is decent. Most of his big innings cited here are NOT good innings. You can easily plod around to a 40 ball 50 and hit next 20 balls to end up with strike rate around 145 or more. Its easy for any batsman to do. But 1)balls once lost does NOT come back and 2) his innings puts pressure on other batsmen and middle order collapses. Middle order gets no time to get in and have to hit from ball 1 while Kohli plods on the other side, and then middle order gets out as they hit without being set and then Kohli stans can blame our middle and death batsmen.

 

The fact that our middle and death batsmen failed in most of kohli's big innings is not a bug, its a feature

 

Babar and Rizwan play exact same brand of cricket, they score big scores and have decent strike rate at end but because of their style of play middl and death order are under immense pressure and will always collapse. 

 

In T20 top 3 role should be to START big and its ok if they score 30-35 instead of 50s. The perfect example was our innings against Bangla, none of our top order stad padded, played anchor, from Rohit to Pant to SKY everyone kept run rate up and Pandya finished it off and we ended up scoring 195. In our Aus game Rohit played big innings but he was hitting from ball 1 and never slowed down. Kohli scoring big in the way he plays where he starts slow, plods around  actually HAMPERS the team and does not help them at all. In the big innings example you gave, he hogged most balls, other hitting batsmen barely got anything to bat. 

 

The biggest favor Kohli did India this series was getting out early which is why India middle and lower order, players like SKY and Pandya are doing better. Pant might not have clicked but when he fails he gets out early which is again not harming the team.

 

There have been multiple studies to show playing slow upfront and then hitting later does not help the team. Batsman on top playing big innings does not help the team. It helps them to stat pad but it completely hampers the team balance and other players. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/kartikeya-date-virat-kohli-is-india-slowest-scoring-batter-in-t20-internationals-should-he-go-down-the-order-1347334

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/do-you-really-want-virat-kohli-in-your-t20-xi-1231928

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/do-teams-benefit-when-their-batters-play-long-innings-in-t20s-1324594

 

Kohli is constantly among the slowest starters in T20 and comparable with Rizwan and Babar.

Edited June 29, 2024 by New guy

[zen]

28 minutes ago, New guy said:

The fact that some of T20s knocks are being considered good knocks is exactly whats wrong with our T20 mindset. Look at 2014 final for example.

 

I agree with the general sentiments of your post but "2016 and earlier" can be seen as the old era (Maybe 2007-2016 can be termed as the Dhoni era). The issue is that when the next T20 WC happened in 2021, after a gap of 5 years, these senior players were still in the old mindset despite seeing what teams like Eng were doing. 2022 T20 SF further highlighted the old-fashioned approach. 

 

PS And of course not to forget the fondness for "stats".

Edited June 29, 2024 by zen

[New guy]

1 hour ago, zen said:

 

I agree with the general sentiments of your post but "2016 and earlier" can be seen as the old era (Maybe 2007-2016 can be termed as the Dhoni era). The issue is that when the next T20 WC happened in 2021, after a gap of 5 years, these senior players were still in the old mindset despite seeing what teams like Eng were doing. 2022 T20 SF further highlighted the old-fashioned approach. 

 

PS And of course not to forget the fondness for "stats".

Agreed, but also remember, we won nothing under dhoni after 2007. And in 2007 the focus was on youngsters and impact and not on seniors or big scores. And then after success Dhoni's mindset changed and we want back to safe way of playing and won nothing. So we were outdated in our thinking even pre 2016 compared to other teams.

[G_B_]

His heart is not in cricket 

 

It shows 

[Kron]

2 hours ago, G_B_ said:

His heart is not in cricket 

 

It shows 

Then leave and go be with anooskha. No one cares. Why is he ruining my India's chances of winning a title. 

[putrevus]

I don't know what is the problem with Kohli for this gasbag,

 

He is moron of highest order.,

[putrevus]

Kohli scores a duck today also , he is will have done more in t20 world cups than any other batsmen combined in all t20s.

[Gambit]

This was a very good knock.