Why is Richards Hadlee rated better bowler than Imran Khan?

[Majestic]

I mean they both average about same. Difference in wickets tally is due to Imran becoming a proper batsman in last 15 tests. However, the most noticeable difference is the pitches and weather conditions.

 

Imran bowled in hot and humid conditions of Pakistan where pitches are flat and won't assist spinners much either.

 

Hadlee bowled in cool weather conditions of New Zealand and occasionally pitches would be grassy and suitable for swing bowling.

 

Shouldn't Imran be rated as the greatest bowler of all-time for this reason and the greatest cricketer in 150 years of cricket history, especially having won the World Cup as captain and regarded as a great captain too?

 

I mean look at Jadeja and Ashwin, they got the most favoured conditions possible but still they couldn't reach the stats and height of Imran Khan.

[singhvivek141]

Few reasons

1. Hadlee is "white"...skin colour is a definite parameter which Asians can't ignore.

2. Imran & ball tempering, just like Murali vs Warne...even Imran's stats are considered incorrect /inflated due to these allegations. Murali atleast had genuine issues, Imran himself agreed that he did ball tempering in a local county cricket game in England (1994). Wonder what he might have done in international games hiding under the radar.

3. For India specifically, his comments against Indians and his animosity vs Kapil. Akram said once in an interview that Imran had jealousy against Kapil the day he won 1983 WC. There is every definite chance that jealousy might have propagated to no 2 (through Sarafarz was doing the ball tempering in 1970's itself).

[Majestic]

5 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Few reasons

1. Hadlee is "white"...skin colour is a definite parameter which Asians can't ignore.

2. Imran & ball tempering, just like Murali vs Warne...even Imran's stats are considered incorrect /inflated due to these allegations. Murali atleast had genuine issues, Imran himself agreed that he did ball tempering in a local county cricket game in England (1994). Wonder what he might have done in international games hiding under the radar.

3. For India specifically, his comments against Indians and his animosity vs Kapil. Akram said once in an interview that Imran had jealousy against Kapil the day he won 1983 WC. There is every definite chance that jealousy might have propagated to no 2 (through Sarafarz was doing the ball tempering in 1970's itself).

1. Marshall, Viv, Lara are widely regarded as the greatest cricketers in the game. Skin colour is not a viable parameter as most cricketers these days do rate the likes of Kohli, Rohit, Tendulkar extremely high.

 

2. Ball tampering allegations is understandable but wasn't it common in 80s and 90s? Only Pakistan didn't do that. Also, doing it in few games shouldn't make much of difference. What is Mitchell Starc stats? Didn't he benefited with it for a short period also? Few allegations shouldn't be enough to cover up for the difference in conditions in which they bowled.

[Gollum]

Serial ball tamperer, no other country abused it like Pooks. 

 

Hadlee made India dance in India in 1987, won a series in Australia almost single handedly. 

 

Stop overrating Pooks. 

 

Greatest is still Marshall. 

[Gollum]

30 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I mean look at Jadeja and Ashwin, they got the most favoured conditions possible but still they couldn't reach the stats and height of Imran Khan.

Comparing stats of spinners with pacers?

 

Think both of them have better stats than Shane Warne. 

[jf1gp_1]

As an India my goal is to rate anyone above a Pakistani. For me Kishore Jena is greater than Arshad Nadeem. 

[Majestic]

37 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Comparing stats of spinners with pacers?

 

Think both of them have better stats than Shane Warne. 

That's because Warne played his home games in Australia.

 

Imran played his home games in hot and humid conditions on flat pitches in Pakistan.

 

Hadlee played his home games in cool bowling friendly conditions in New Zealand.

 

Ashwin played his home games in spin friendly home conditions on pitches aiding spin and turn.

[zen]

I had a thread on greatest match winners in test. 

[Gollum]

17 minutes ago, Majestic said:

That's because Warne played his home games in Australia.

 

Imran played his home games in hot and humid conditions on flat pitches in Pakistan.

 

Hadlee played his home games in cool bowling friendly conditions in New Zealand.

 

Ashwin played his home games in spin friendly home conditions on pitches aiding spin and turn.

What I am saying is that stats aren't to be taken at face value. 

[Gollum]

Pak bowling has gone to dogs since clampdown on tampering and chucking. Think about it, they can produce more capable batsmen than bowlers since this sport became fairer. 

[jf1gp_1]

21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Pak bowling has gone to dogs since clampdown on tampering and chucking. Think about it, they can produce more capable batsmen than bowlers since this sport became fairer. 

You mean future greats like Azam khan and Siam 

[Number]

[Gollum]

6 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

You mean future greats like Azam khan and Siam 

Younis Khan, Mohd Yousuf, Misbah, Azhar Ali since 2000. Can also add Babar Azam though he is overrated.

 

Name one Pak phaast bowler with 200 test wickets since the Ws retired. 

 

They get hammered in Aus all the time not because of batting but because of their ghatiya bowling. In a number of tests there in last 20 years their batsmen have put enough runs to win or at least draw tests, still whitewash everytime. 

Edited August 10, 2024 by Gollum

[Adamant]

Imran was a great new ball bowler too, its not all bottlecaps.

 

Hadlee is rated better because of a better balanced record in other strong countries.

 

Imran is easily the better allrounder though and the greatest cricketer Asia has produced by a landslide margin.

Atg bowler

Test class batsman

World cup winning captain

Oxford graduate

Alpha Stud

PM of a nation

 

Aura 1000000.

 

Comparing to him we have a 5 foot 2 vada in pav eater 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

1. Marshall, Viv, Lara are widely regarded as the greatest cricketers in the game. Skin colour is not a viable parameter as most cricketers these days do rate the likes of Kohli, Rohit, Tendulkar extremely high.

 

2. Ball tampering allegations is understandable but wasn't it common in 80s and 90s? Only Pakistan didn't do that. Also, doing it in few games shouldn't make much of difference. What is Mitchell Starc stats? Didn't he benefited with it for a short period also? Few allegations shouldn't be enough to cover up for the difference in conditions in which they bowled.

How do you know they only tempered in few games ?

Explain it to me please how suddenly the effectiveness of Pak bowlers vanished once ICC became strict of ball tempering & chucking. It's been 24 years in this millennium and they haven't been able to produce even one half decent bowler.

 

Their best spinner post 2000 was a chucker...even Saqlain might have been a chucker in the hindsight...who knows ?

 

Pakistan has been the inventor of many wrong activities in the world..both in cricketing and non-cricketing sense. Let's not overrate the bottle cap ghiser like Imran. 

Had he played in present era, his standard won't be more than a 30-32 averaging bowler in all formats, he is a fraud and that's where it all ends.

[Adamant]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

How do you know they only tempered in few games ?

Explain it to me please how suddenly the effectiveness of Pak bowlers vanished once ICC became strict of ball tempering & chucking. It's been 24 years in this millennium and they haven't been able to produce even one half decent bowler.

 

Their best spinner post 2000 was a chucker...even Saqlain might have been a chucker in the hindsight...who knows ?

 

Pakistan has been the inventor of many wrong activities in the world..both in cricketing and non-cricketing sense. Let's not overrate the bottle cap ghiser like Imran. 

Had he played in present era, his standard won't be more than a 30-32 averaging bowler in all formats, he is a fraud and that's where it all ends.

Here goes the low iq rant.

 

Do you know bottle caps aren’t effective from ball one and the umpire do notice that if a new ball is shredded in the first few overs itself.

 

Check Imrans wicket tally with the new ball that would be enough proof of his effectiveness, people across world forums rate him as one of the 5 ATg pacers .

Edited August 10, 2024 by Adamant

[singhvivek141]

1 minute ago, Adamant said:

Here goes the low iq rant.

 

Do you know bottle caps aren’t effective from ball one and the umpire do notice that if a new ball is shredded in the first few overs itself.

 

Check Imrans wicket tally with the new ball that would be enough proof of his effectiveness, people across world forums rate him as one of the 5 ATg pacers , ignorant self acclaimed patriots like you wont even get one reaction on other forums except maybe calling you a worthless troll.

Bhai, you can keep on clapping for Imran Khan. Please keep on visiting "other forums" and be more critical towards your own players. Like abusing Sachin Tendulkar.
Best wishes to you.

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

Imran was a great new ball bowler too, its not all bottlecaps.

 

Hadlee is rated better because of a better balanced record in other strong countries.

 

Imran is easily the better allrounder though and the greatest cricketer Asia has produced by a landslide margin.

Atg bowler

Test class batsman

World cup winning captain

Oxford graduate

Alpha Stud

PM of a nation

 

Aura 1000000.

 

Comparing to him we have a 5 foot 2 vada in pav eater 

.

Edited August 10, 2024 by Gollum

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Bhai, you can keep on clapping for Imran Khan. Please keep on visiting "other forums" and be more critical towards your own players. Like abusing Sachin Tendulkar.
Best wishes to you.

Dunno how India came into this discussion. Topic is comparing a Pakistani to Kiwi, but this guy couldn't resist, had to push it far. 

 

Good that he keeps blowing his cover. Other posters kept saying the same, should have listened to them before.

Edited August 10, 2024 by Gollum

[Gollum]

And @Majestic, dunno what has gone into you. Stop spending too much time on Pak sites, shed your inferiority complex. Otherwise you will become a joker here. 

 

Greatest cricketer in history, greatest fast bowler in history, greatest captain in history, greatest humanitarian in history, greatest PM in history.....even Bradford Mirpuris don't take it this far. 

Edited August 10, 2024 by Gollum