Team India needs lots of fighting mentality cricketers like Pant instead of prima donna sooperstars

[express bowling]

If we want to win big ICC tournaments and big away test series regularly then we need to fill the team with fighting mentality cricketers. 

 

Pant

Jaiswal to some extent

Washington 

Axar

Shardul the batsman 

Shami when on a sexting spree 

Bumrah in this T20 World Cup and 2 test series in Australia 

Arshdeep in T20Is 

Rinku 

 

 

Potentially ....

 

Jurel

Harshit 

Mayank 

Pradosh Paul 

 

 

Our prima donnas, who are interested only in promoting themselves as brands, and choke in big matches, need to be removed. 

 

Look for players who are performing regularly in 

 

1)   Knockout matches

2)  Crunch matches like a series / tournaments decider. 

3) When the team is under pressure.

4)  When playing conditions are tough and most are not performing.

 

There are some players who perform in such matches a high % of times, be it international cricket, A-team games, the IPL or Zonal games. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by express bowling

[zen]

Indian cricket is about “creating” superstars and then milking them for $$$. This eventually creates a system where the power shifts to these superstars and the entire cricketing mechanism operates to make it “easier” for them. 
 

So superstars get rank turners where teams not used to playing spin are overrun in a few days. Not much sweat for the superstars and an increase in their brand value for the artificial dominance in doctored conditions. 
 

Once you are a superstar, you have access to the best positions where you can open in LOIs and slot yourself in the middle order in tests. The youngsters get to do all the hard work. 
 

The team functions to support the superstars and not the other way round (much like a private is made to do the household work for his senior in the Indian army). 
 

[SandeepMotta]

The PR brigade which was sowed by Dhoni and being continued by the current generating needs to be sacked.

[ash]

And how do you find this fighting “mentality”… is there any psych evaluation for this?? 
 

Just keep it simple. If seniors don’t perform, drop them. And bring in new players based on Ranji performance. Give them 4-5 series and check how they perform. 
 

I would rather rely on stats than this “fighting mentality” for selection.. 

[Chakdephatte]

2 minutes ago, ash said:

And how do you find this fighting “mentality”… is there any psych evaluation for this?? 
 

Just keep it simple. If seniors don’t perform, drop them. And bring in new players based on Ranji performance. Give them 4-5 series and check how they perform. 
 

I would rather rely on stats than this “fighting mentality” for selection.. 

I have never seen any original take on icf. This is just a template post I see here. 

 

Literally every player looks to have that fighter attitude when in supreme form. People were talking about Sarfaraz after first match knock, now they are calling him parchi. It's always about form/skill. 

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, Chakdephatte said:

I have never seen any original take on icf. This is just a template post I see here. 

 

Literally every player looks to have that fighter attitude when in supreme form. People were talking about Sarfaraz after first match knock, now they are calling him parchi. It's always about form/skill. 

If it works - fearless approach

 

If it flops - clueless slogger

[sensible-indian]

I agree with OP tho.

 

Some players have the mentality to fight it out more than others.

 

It's not always about ability or stats.

 

We can get them in via stats...but whether they stay or go depends on how well they play under pressure.

 

Sarfu had a great start on flat tracks...

 

Couldn't buy a run on turners..

 

Couldn't even fight it out...

 

That's not a good sign so far.

[ash]

5 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

It's not always about ability or stats.

Nope, end of the day it is always about the stats. You can be a talented player like Kohli, or a street smart player like Dhoni with average talent - either way if you make runs or score wickets. It doesn’t matter..

 

I would rather take someone who is afraid of facing starc but somehow finds a way to score runs than someone who has “fearless” mentality but gets out playing a loose shot. 

[sensible-indian]

6 minutes ago, ash said:

Nope, end of the day it is always about the stats. You can be a talented player like Kohli, or a street smart player like Dhoni with average talent - either way if you make runs or score wickets. It doesn’t matter..

 

I would rather take someone who is afraid of facing starc but somehow finds a way to score runs than someone who has “fearless” mentality but gets out playing a loose shot. 

The last sentence is what im saying too.

 

Op too.

 

There are some who will have great stats on meaningless games and go missing when it matters.

 

Indias home domination was cos we had players who would stand up during tough moments and make it count.

 

[sensible-indian]

Op never talked about feerless mentality.

 

He talked about fighting mentality.

[ash]

1 minute ago, sensible-indian said:

Op never talked about feerless mentality.

 

He talked about fighting mentality.

Fearless or fighting , doesn’t matter. You can’t select someone based on mentality.. It is an obscure term that can’t be quantified. Just use numbers, a player can’t statpad forever by scoring runs on meaningless games, eventually it will catch up…

 

 

 

 

 

[sensible-indian]

3 minutes ago, ash said:

Fearless or fighting , doesn’t matter. You can’t select someone based on mentality.. It is an obscure term that can’t be quantified. Just use numbers, a player can’t statpad forever by scoring runs on meaningless games, eventually it will catch up…

 

 

 

 

 

If everything is stats why do we need selectors?

 

Create a program that spits out the squad and playing XI 

 

That would be the fairest way to go.

[singhvivek141]

13 minutes ago, ash said:

Nope, end of the day it is always about the stats. You can be a talented player like Kohli, or a street smart player like Dhoni with average talent - either way if you make runs or score wickets. It doesn’t matter..

 

I would rather take someone who is afraid of facing starc but somehow finds a way to score runs than someone who has “fearless” mentality but gets out playing a loose shot. 

If we look only at stats then all we will get is stat padders.

A 70 on a rank/mine turner is obviously carry more weight than a 120 on a flat patta.

 

What defines the fighting attitude is when the chips are down, a player is ready to even take blows on his body but will stand on ground no matter what.

 

Pujara in last tour is an example...he averaged only 31 if I remember correctly. Yet took blows after blows on his body and kept on side active while on other Pant and Gill made runs.

 

Even in Sydney test, the inns which Vihari played was another example. If I remember right he was injured and couldn't run, yet used all his experience to hold the fort along with Ash.

 

Yeah, its not a scientific parameter, we dont know who has that. But it will be seen and needs to be appreciated. 

 

If Pant and Sundar can do it repeatedly, what was stopping Rohit and Kohli doing the same. Had Rohit or Kohli scored 26 (80) today...even that would have been a fighting inns. 

[ash]

1 minute ago, sensible-indian said:

If everything is stats why do we need selectors?

 

Create a program that spits out the squad and playing XI 

 

That would be the fairest way to go.

May not be a bad idea actually. Obviously with more filters in place, like monitoring average over a period of a year or 10 test matches .. If your average drops below 45 in 10 test matches, you are out, even if you are Kohli. Then the program picks one from the Ranji with the same criteria to replace this guy..
 

Takes away the superstardom fetish we have in India… 

 

 

[ash]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

If we look only at stats then all we will get is stat padders.

A 70 on a rank/mine turner is obviously carry more weight than a 120 on a flat patta.

 

What defines the fighting attitude is when the chips are down, a player is ready to even take blows on his body but will stand on ground no matter what.

 

Pujara in last tour is an example...he averaged only 31 if I remember correctly. Yet took blows after blows on his body and kept on side active while on other Pant and Gill made runs.

 

Even in Sydney test, the inns which Vihari played was another example. If I remember right he was injured and couldn't run, yet used all his experience to hold the fort along with Ash.

 

Yeah, its not a scientific parameter, we dont know who has that. But it will be seen and needs to be appreciated. 

 

If Pant and Sundar can do it repeatedly, what was stopping Rohit and Kohli doing the same. Had Rohit or Kohli scored 26 (80) today...even that would have been a fighting inns. 

I don’t believe a player can survive in Test matches by being a stat padder. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

7 minutes ago, ash said:

May not be a bad idea actually. Obviously with more filters in place, like monitoring average over a period of a year or 10 test matches .. If your average drops below 45 in 10 test matches, you are out, even if you are Kohli. Then the program picks one from the Ranji with the same criteria to replace this guy..
 

Takes away the superstardom fetish we have in India… 

 

 

You are a dreamer, Sir

[ash]

9 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

You are a dreamer, Sir

A man can dream.. people say don’t rely on stats giving Sarfraz as an example. They want selectors to pick “talent” not on stats. What about talented people like Gill and Iyer then?? 
 

Let say you pick 10 players based on purely stats, I would say at least 6-7 out of them would make it. But you pick 10 players based on mentality or how good they look when they bat or how talented they are, you would probably get 2-3 good ones from them.. 

Edited November 3, 2024 by ash

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 minutes ago, ash said:

A man can dream.. people say don’t rely on stats giving Sarfraz as an example. They want selectors to pick “talent” not on stats. What about talented people like Gill and Iyer then?? 
 

Let say you pick 10 players based on purely stats, I would say at least 6-7 out of them would make it. But you pick 10 players based on mentality or how good they look when they bat or how talented they are, you would probably get 2-3 good ones from them.. 

Not disputing your premise. I've just resigned to accept that your strict performance evaluation will never be implemented.

 

Just last week batting coach Nayar said we should be patient with Rohit and Kohli. There will always be excuses like.. 

 

- One knock away

- Form is temporary.

- Class is permanent.

- 8 yrs ago, he scored 200 on this ground

- 10 yrs ago he led us to a win with 4th innings heroics

 

 

 

[vignesh12345]

8 minutes ago, ash said:

A man can dream.. people say don’t rely on stats giving Sarfraz as an example. They want selectors to pick “talent” not on stats. What about talented people like Gill and Iyer then?? 
 

Let say you pick 10 players based on purely stats, I would say at least 6-7 out of them would make it. But you pick 10 players based on mentality or how good they look when they bat or how talented they are, you would probably get 2-3 good ones from them.. 

Players should be selected based on how sexually attractive they are

 

I honestly believe that those with better genes are better players

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, ash said:

And how do you find this fighting “mentality”… is there any psych evaluation for this?? 

 

Look for players who are performing regularly in 

 

1)   Knockout matches

2)  Crunch matches like a series / tournaments decider. 

3) When the team is under pressure.

4)  When playing conditions are tough and most are not performing.

 

There are some players who perform in such matches a high % of times. 

 

 

2 hours ago, ash said:

 

Just keep it simple. If seniors don’t perform, drop them. And bring in new players based on Ranji performance. Give them 4-5 series and check how they perform. 
 

 

Players have never been picked based on overall Ranji stats. There are too many below par bowlers and batters and weak teams.

 

 

2 hours ago, ash said:

I would rather rely on stats than this “fighting mentality” for selection.. 

 

Stats have to be there. If a batter averages 35 in Ranji then he can't be picked whatever his mentality. Because it shows lack of consistency. 

 

Make a pool of the high average batters and low average bowlers with requisite international cricket attributes. Then pick those who are performing in big matches / tough situations regularly.

 

This is why selectors are there. Otherwise Statsguru type applications would have sufficed.

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2024 by express bowling