Modi - The most charismatic indian politician ever?

[Vk1]

7 hours ago, mishra said:

Anyone who undertands Global economics knows that US can eff up any country.

 

She took head on US and its interest by breaking up Pakistan. This resulted in US fuelled separtism in Punjab(there is Direct US Hand, Bangldeshis think we havent paid for their freedom, we have paid for decades and still paying the cost of their freedom). Kashmir was already there (there was a incident mentioned that Kashmiri Muslims were flashing their penis in Indirajis rally in Kashmir).

Our Me Lords (I attribute that judgement to US Deep State where Parliamentary Membership of Indiraji was cancelled by a Court aka she was tevchnically NOT PM)   managed to get her enforce emergency.

 

She was told to Not have Sikhs as part of her Security. She was not ready to accept that and gave her life.

 

I didn't even talk about Emergency. 
Preserving Fundamental rights and working for economic prosperity are the top most priorities for any Govt

Edited January 16, 2025 by Vk1

[coffee_rules]

9 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

 

I didn't even talk about Emergency. 
Preserving Fundamental rights and working for economic prosperity are the top most priorities for any Govt

Many of her policies were extension of Nehruvian socialist policies that caused India to have such a slow and low growth rate till 1992. They blamed it on Hindus and mockingly  called it Hindu rate of growth. Licence Raj, Panchvarsh yojnas, nationalization of banks, 97% taxation of  business, it dove the country to so much poverty that she won elections only on Garibi Hatao slogans!! 

[coffee_rules]

Nice interview, nothing that we don’t know about him, but a good first podcast for him. 
 

 

[randomGuy]

8 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

There is nothing Brahminical about the system. That is the narrative pushed by Marxist historians. You have not aware of many advances made by the Indian civilization starting from Vedic and SSVC.  This is not some WAU stuff. Read about how much we knew before the west. Astronomy, Medicine, Yoga, Ayurveda, Language (literature, grammarians like Panini) , Darahanas, Industries like textiles, metallurgy (esp zinc and copper) . Indian products have been found in many ancient archeological sites in Greece, Rome etc.  No wonder the west was so interested to find a sea route to India - sone ki chidhia. 
 

Archarya Pramod is an authority on many things esp to talk about Manusmriti. Need to talk in different topic. 

 

8 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

False. 

India has been by far the biggest producer of science prior to the 1500s. 

We discovered scientific process, calculus, etc. 

Our scientific output has been so systematic that mendeleev literally organized the periodic table on the same scientific principle our alphabet in India is organized. 

It is all relative. In science and technology, we didn't have a space program (astronomy), electricity, quantum physics and applications, automobiles, airplanes, railways (steam engine), x-ray, modern surgical expertise (granted we did have surgical procedures back then also), transistors/computers, Graph theory (I believe the back propagation algo which is the backbone of AI is from graph theory).

 

ayurveda is mostly useless IMO , darshana, language is not science.

 

Periodic table is based on atomic weight while hindi alphabet is location of sounds in vocal organs.

 

Credit to India where it is due on calculus(most probably only basic calculus?) , vedic maths, zero and decimal system. Also to Jagdish Chandra Bose for wireless communication and ramanujan (a freak of nature who probably wrote the entire mathematics)

 

I don't think it is a shame to admit that holistically speaking, we were behind in science and technology. But we were and still are world's powerhouse in spirituality and culture. I liked the quote that if world is a body then India is the soul.

 

 

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

 

It is all relative. In science and technology, we didn't have a space program (astronomy), electricity, quantum physics and applications, automobiles, airplanes, railways (steam engine), x-ray, modern surgical expertise (granted we did have surgical procedures back then also), transistors/computers, Graph theory (I believe the back propagation algo which is the backbone of AI is from graph theory).

 

ayurveda is mostly useless IMO , darshana, language is not science.

 

Periodic table is based on atomic weight while hindi alphabet is location of sounds in vocal organs.

 

Credit to India where it is due on calculus(most probably only basic calculus?) , vedic maths, zero and decimal system. Also to Jagdish Chandra Bose for wireless communication and ramanujan (a freak of nature who probably wrote the entire mathematics)

 

I don't think it is a shame to admit that holistically speaking, we were behind in science and technology. But we were and still are world's powerhouse in spirituality and culture. I liked the quote that if world is a body then India is the soul.

 

 

 

If we have to judge where we were in the world, we have to see where the world was at the time. 500 BC India cannot be compared to 20th century west. 500 BC India estimated perhaps the distance to the sun. Europe was in dark ages at the time. America was non existent. 

 

We can go into more details. But let's atleast lay down what are we comparing. 

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

 

If we have to judge where we were in the world, we have to see where the world was at the time. 500 BC India cannot be compared to 20th century west. 500 BC India estimated perhaps the distance to the sun. Europe was in dark ages at the time. America was non existent. 

 

We can go into more details. But let's atleast lay down what are we comparing. 

Let us say Post renaissance western civilization starting 1600 to year 2025 with india during the same time or in any time in history... starting that period, they started to leave india behind by leaps and bounds.

 

We also have to keep in mind that populations of both regions only a fraction of today.

Edited January 17, 2025 by randomGuy

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

 

It is all relative. In science and technology, we didn't have a space program (astronomy), electricity, quantum physics and applications, automobiles, airplanes, railways (steam engine), x-ray, modern surgical expertise (granted we did have surgical procedures back then also), transistors/computers, Graph theory (I believe the back propagation algo which is the backbone of AI is from graph theory).

 

ayurveda is mostly useless IMO , darshana, language is not science.

 

Periodic table is based on atomic weight while hindi alphabet is location of sounds in vocal organs.

 

Credit to India where it is due on calculus(most probably only basic calculus?) , vedic maths, zero and decimal system. Also to Jagdish Chandra Bose for wireless communication and ramanujan (a freak of nature who probably wrote the entire mathematics)

 

I don't think it is a shame to admit that holistically speaking, we were behind in science and technology. But we were and still are world's powerhouse in spirituality and culture. I liked the quote that if world is a body then India is the soul.

 

 

You have recency bias, nobody here claimed we had a space program , automobiles, nuclear weapons, modern medicine 2000 years ago. There is no shame in admitting and knowing that we were much advanced than others 2000 years ago. You are denying that. Don’t negate history, Indian GDP ipost1 600s funded the Industrial Revolution of Europe due to Brit colonization . Read about the antiquity of Indian science - we didn’t just invent 0 and that’s it!

Edited January 17, 2025 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

46 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Let us say Post renaissance western civilization starting 1600 to year 2025 with india during the same time... starting that period, they started to leave india behind by leaps and bounds.

 

We also have to keep in mind that populations of both regions only a fraction of today.

Yes. We all agree here.

Edited January 17, 2025 by coffee_rules

[Muloghonto]

11 hours ago, randomGuy said:

 

It is all relative. In science and technology, we didn't have a space program (astronomy), electricity, quantum physics and applications, automobiles, airplanes, railways (steam engine), x-ray, modern surgical expertise (granted we did have surgical procedures back then also), transistors/computers, Graph theory (I believe the back propagation algo which is the backbone of AI is from graph theory).

 

ayurveda is mostly useless IMO , darshana, language is not science.

 

Periodic table is based on atomic weight while hindi alphabet is location of sounds in vocal organs.

 

Credit to India where it is due on calculus(most probably only basic calculus?) , vedic maths, zero and decimal system. Also to Jagdish Chandra Bose for wireless communication and ramanujan (a freak of nature who probably wrote the entire mathematics)

 

I don't think it is a shame to admit that holistically speaking, we were behind in science and technology. But we were and still are world's powerhouse in spirituality and culture. I liked the quote that if world is a body then India is the soul.

 

 

If it is relative, well then it supports my point: relatively, india has been the most scientifically innovative place on the planet for all of recorded history till pretty much the last 500 years.

 

Your comment isn't relativistic, it is absolute: In absolute terms, yes, the west is the overwhelming inventor and discoverer of science and technology. But the vast majority of that has happened in the last 300 years, where India has spent 200 of those 300 years enslaved by the British and undergoing the worst holocaust of the last 400 years and another 75 recovering from it. 

Like....which country innovated anything while being subjugated ?? What did the anglos do under the Romans except get made fun of by the Romans for being the worst and dumbest subhumans  on the planet, worse than the African personal slaves of Romans?? 

 

And yet, over the past 5 years, india has been the most improved Nation on the planet for innovation, marking the greatest % increase in patent filings in that period for a normal patent filing nation. 

 

So... I am not sure what exactly is the criticism of India here- we were literally the centre of innovation and all knowledge till invention of printing press and were literally the inventors of the modern university education system in our Indian universities that predate the western ones like Cambridge or bologna ( two of the oldest western universities in existence iirc) 

 

To call us 'land of spirituality, not science' is literally spreading a false trope of land of half naked but happy sadhus of 19th century colonialism and gandhi's chaatugiri of the same naked mystic fakir stereotype of the western colonial.

 

Yet, every single writing referring to india from anywhere on the planet till 1000 years ago, is that of a land of knowledge, law, jurisprudence and above all, formalized education. 

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

If it is relative, well then it supports my point: relatively, india has been the most scientifically innovative place on the planet for all of recorded history till pretty much the last 500 years.

 

Your comment isn't relativistic, it is absolute: In absolute terms, yes, the west is the overwhelming inventor and discoverer of science and technology. But the vast majority of that has happened in the last 300 years, where India has spent 200 of those 300 years enslaved by the British and undergoing the worst holocaust of the last 400 years and another 75 recovering from it. 

Like....which country innovated anything while being subjugated ?? What did the anglos do under the Romans except get made fun of by the Romans for being the worst and dumbest subhumans  on the planet, worse than the African personal slaves of Romans?? 

 

And yet, over the past 5 years, india has been the most improved Nation on the planet for innovation, marking the greatest % increase in patent filings in that period for a normal patent filing nation. 

 

So... I am not sure what exactly is the criticism of India here- we were literally the centre of innovation and all knowledge till invention of printing press and were literally the inventors of the modern university education system in our Indian universities that predate the western ones like Cambridge or bologna ( two of the oldest western universities in existence iirc) 

 

To call us 'land of spirituality, not science' is literally spreading a false trope of land of half naked but happy sadhus of 19th century colonialism and gandhi's chaatugiri of the same naked mystic fakir stereotype of the western colonial.

 

Yet, every single writing referring to india from anywhere on the planet till 1000 years ago, is that of a land of knowledge, law, jurisprudence and above all, formalized education. 

Excuses Galore. There wasn't any time in history where india was nearly as advanced in science and technology as post renaissance western world. 

 

It is relative. we are so far behind in last 400 years (n there is zero recency bias) that it is a joke to compare science/tech of ANY era in the history of india to be compared with last 400 yr west.

 

And there isn't any shame in accepting reality. Caste groups may have been busy establishing their own supremacy(and discrimination of other groups) by creating and preaching texts proclaiming their caste group's supremacy. 

 

When the present society see it without being insecure, criticize the texts which ought to be criticized, that will pave way for brighter future. 

 

 

Otherwise keep claiming india was a science leader when Europe was in dark ages. It is like a comparison between a kana and a andha.

 

[Muloghonto]

14 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Excuses Galore. There wasn't any time in history where india was nearly as advanced in science and technology as post renaissance western world. 

 

It is relative. we are so far behind in last 400 years (n there is zero recency bias) that it is a joke to compare science/tech of ANY era in the history of india to be compared with last 400 yr west.

 

And there isn't any shame in accepting reality. Caste groups may have been busy establishing their own supremacy(and discrimination of other groups) by creating and preaching texts proclaiming their caste group's supremacy. 

 

When the present society see it without being insecure, criticize the texts which ought to be criticized, that will pave way for brighter future. 

 

 

Otherwise keep claiming india was a science leader when Europe was in dark ages. It is like a comparison between a kana and a andha.

 

Explain to me how it's an excuse to say 'we were world leaders in science and technology for all of recorded history till 300 years ago, when we got enslaved'.

 

Like wot de foc ?? How Is saying ' we fell behind due to being enslaved' an excuse and not explanation, given that there is no society in human history that has been a science or tech innovator while being enslaved ?? 

[nevada]

On 11/24/2024 at 3:52 PM, jigjig said:

Nobody comes close to Shashi Tharoor 

Shampoo boy is exhibit A for "if looks could kill", as his suspiciously dead wife would confirm. 

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, randomGuy said:

Excuses Galore. There wasn't any time in history where india was nearly as advanced in science and technology as post renaissance western world. 

 

It is relative. we are so far behind in last 400 years (n there is zero recency bias) that it is a joke to compare science/tech of ANY era in the history of india to be compared with last 400 yr west.

 

And there isn't any shame in accepting reality. Caste groups may have been busy establishing their own supremacy(and discrimination of other groups) by creating and preaching texts proclaiming their caste group's supremacy. 

 

When the present society see it without being insecure, criticize the texts which ought to be criticized, that will pave way for brighter future. 

 

 

Otherwise keep claiming india was a science leader when Europe was in dark ages. It is like a comparison between a kana and a andha.

 

Excuses? Who is making excuses? What you are stating is so obvious as much as saying Monday comes after Sunday. You are the one denying India science antiquity. In science, you can't invent from scratch, it has to be built upon something you know a little bit of. That little bit came from India. Colonialism robbed us out of being a somewhat industrialized as Turkey is. We were robbed out of our riches that funded the EU industrialization.

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Excuses? Who is making excuses? What you are stating is so obvious as much as saying Monday comes after Sunday. You are the one denying India science antiquity. In science, you can't invent from scratch, it has to be built upon something you know a little bit of. That little bit came from India. Colonialism robbed us out of being a somewhat industrialized as Turkey is. We were robbed out of our riches that funded the EU industrialization.

 

If 8 Indian universities didn't get destroyed in a span of 3 years by khilji, forget turkey, we would he ahead of usa. 

Same story for China if mongols didn't happen- song dynasty was at the cusp of industrial revolution before the mongols hit in the 1240s. 

 

The only reason the west was able to overtake usbin science and technology is because they didn't suffer loss of knowledge as recently as we did and also didn't undergo slavery and exploitation in the most recent period.

 

Either way, the days of western leadership in science and technology is over. Already China is the leading innovative nation on the planet, vastly overshadowing everyone else in patent filings. India is the fastest riser in tech Development and Japan is still #3 overall after China and usa respectively. 

 

Ie, world is returning to the status quo of Asia being centre of human excellence, as was the case for all of history till roughly 1700 AD. 

Edited January 17, 2025 by Muloghonto

[coffee_rules]

A very good discussion from journalists in Jaipur Dialogues, l. About Modi, Yogi, Humanta and other future leaders

 

@randomGuy A lot of good videos from JD session of last week

 

You will hate Gadkari more after watching above. Laloo had asked Gujral to carry his Khainu (girls) We had such great people as PM

Edited November 13, 2025 by coffee_rules

[ravishingravi]

Generational leader. Arguably the most transformational. I am glad he was there during my lifetime. Sure, he had misses. But that's normal if you are holding power for 25 years in difrerent capacities. 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

A very good discussion from journalists in Jaipur Dialogues, l. About Modi, Yogi, Humanta and other future leaders

 

@randomGuy A lot of good videos from JD session of last week

 

You will hate Gadkari more after watching above. Laloo had asked Gujral to carry his Khainu (girls) We had such great people as PM

I wanted to attend this event badly, freaking production release came and hence whole plan thwarted.

 

Will plan to go next year for sure, Jaipur is anyway a great place to visit....

[coffee_rules]

Reason why Modi is winning is because of such weak opposition