Hafeez : 90's team won nothing for Pakistan

[Lone Wolf]

17 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

i think we reach that around 2035.

 

right now we are at $3000.

 

2040 or 2044 would be a good attempt.

The West will be in outright defiance of India & its rise in the next 15-20years .

Thucydides' Trap is never-ending and An India growing at 6-7% will never be acceptable to the hegemon.

The day we hit 7-8 trillion dollar economy mark US will move us to threat category.

As we are close to hitting 3000$ (officially) our Pharma is being attacked from all sides.  Phase 1

Edited March 6, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Gollum]

33 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said:

Who do you think transformed the fate of Indian hockey? Like Dada in cricket, who is the hockey equivalent? 

I won't name players, they come last. Talent pehle bhi tha, aaj bhi hai. But it is the system and organization that creates champion teams. 

 

In no particular order:

 

Naveen Patnaik, Odisha government....injected lots of funds to the sport, world class facilities, high performance centre, stadiums in the state (some former Maoist strongholds are now hockey hotspots). In some form or the other they have been backing Indian hockey since early 2010s when no one else stepped up (Beijing non-qualification, constant WC/CWG/AG humiliations, London last place finish etc.). If hockey players hold Naveen babu in such high regard and called him from the team bus after winning Paris bronze, there is a reason...many of them have also settled in Odisha. Heck Odisha was the only state which gave them a grand reception on returning  home, and announced cash rewards for all players, not just those from their state.....Punjab, Haryana, Delhi, Kerala etc. rewarded only their state players. 

 

Hockey India, probably the best run sporting organization in the country, more emphasis on merit and not afraid to hire foreign experts to topmost positions (Elena Norman, a young Aussie lady was Hockey India CEO for 10+ years)...also remember Dilip Tirkey is the top boss now and he runs the show, not a politician, bureaucrat or rubber stamp. 

 

Good hirings of coaches from mid 2010s, stability as well to them unlike the constant hiring and firing before.....Oltmans, Sjoerd Marijne, Harendra Singh, Graham Reid, now Fulton. And event to event planning, goals set clear....even before Paris, Fulton was told he would get time till the 26 WC to execute his vision. 

 

Increased emphasis on fitness, closed the gap with goras there

 

HI forcing good changes in FIH, like from 2 halves to 4 quarters, advantage India who didn't have the endurance earlier to play 35 minute halves. But 4 quarters of 15 minutes each, and we can match the tempo of the goras better. Contrast this to lethargic BCCI who can't even shift WTC F venue.

 

Selflessness in game play now......earlier our players would hog the ball and look to score themselves. Akashdeep was a terrific striker and potential superstar but got benched around 2020 because he was too selfish, sidelined mostly since then and younger guns have shown that fitting into team structure and philosophy is more important than individual brilliance. Sardara was the last selfish superstar of Indian hockey. Now thankfully we have also moved on from the superstar and saviour syndrome. 

 

Timely retirement and transition of players. Rupinder Pal Singh was brilliant in Tokyo with his PCs but was forced to retire after that, and Harmanpreet was groomed, now Harman is a game changer and proper leader. Rupinder was only 30-31 then but not the fastest, and had recurring knee issues because of his height. Birendra Lakra too retired, and also  SV Sunil who was our best winger, due to age reasons. Sreejesh himself retired after Paris, more such players weren't picked for ACT last year because planning has started for the WC. This kind of planning and having backups is unheard of in cricket. Even when Sreejesh retired, Krishan Pathak had enough experience and was playing in Asia Cup 22, ACT 23....not afraid to send depleted squads to build bench strength even if it results in embarrassment in these small tournaments. 

 

Our hockey IQ isn't that good, our players can't think that well on their feet. That is one area which is in our control and must improve, that is our next step. Can't do much about umpiring, so let us focus on the controllables. 

Edited March 6, 2025 by Gollum

[Gollum]

36 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

I just think the Olympics can give a real fillip to Indian sports.

 

Also it's like a coming out party in a sense. And inspires national confidence in general.

 

Indonesia, Turkey, Vietnam etc will also look to host it for similar reasons.

 

South Korea and China's perceptions/confidence increased greatly post their Olympics.

 

CWG sucks and should be eliminated that is true.

Let us agree to disagree here brother.

 

I want the money to be spent in grassroots, developing school sports system (Lanka did amazing things in cricket primarily through this mode) etc. 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

They used to own Poms as well. 

Not in ODIs. 14 ODIs between ENG and PAK in the 90's and England led 8-5 with 1 no result. 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2025 by Nikhil_cric

[Gollum]

@AuxiliA sad to see you resort to trollvoting if you don't agree with an opinion, thought you were better than that, this is firmly @Laaloo territory 

[deathmonger]

48 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said:

Who do you think transformed the fate of Indian hockey? Like Dada in cricket, who is the hockey equivalent? 

Naveen patnaik

[rangeelaraja]

 

 

48 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

The West will be in outright defiance of India & its rise in the next 15-20years .

Thucydides' Trap is never-ending and An India growing at 6-7% will never be acceptable to the hegemon.

The day we hit 7-8 trillion dollar economy mark US will move us to threat category.

As we are close to hitting 3000$ (officially) our Pharma is being attacked from all sides.  Phase 1

 

Bhai @Lone Wolf   --- with such extreme limited knowledge ...itni baadi baadi kaise haank lete ho ? Thucydides' Trap lol.

 

You are utterly clueless about geopolitics and geoeconomics...you utter anything based on random knowledge but try to pretend as if you are some guru.

 

Thucydides' Trap theory is when the emerging power is becoming a military peer and economic rival.  In today's world - it also means industrial and manufacturing capacity and strength. 

 

We don't make any hi-tech cutting edge weapons to even come close to being a military peer. Even tiny European countries like Sweden make 100 times better hitech weapons. We are not an economic rival to West, we are a tiny fraction of their size in $ terms...and we will lose the demographic advantage if we don't grow exponentially in the next 25 years. 

 

West doesn't consider us a rival and wont for the next 30 years....infact they are eager to be our benefactor ...so that if our income levels grow , our purchasing and spending capacity grows...their companies can benefit.....just like they benefitted with China's exponential growth.

 

The only factual thing in your argument is they don't want homegrown companies to spring up in India, and want us to be just consumers not creators.  

 

The rest of all you said is utter BS.  Kahan se aata hai itna confidence ?

 

Edited March 6, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[AuxiliA]

47 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Olympics, Asian Games, CWG etc. are just money drains at this point. No wonder most Western countries have stopped bidding for these events, and Paris too used recycled venues. CWG is set to stop after no one expressed interest in hosting it. 

 

In near future expect most of these mega events to be hosted in Middle East countries, maybe sometimes East Asia and countries ruled by jingoistic despots (think Turkey, Hungary, wildcard candidates can be Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan). In a false sense of pride, countries like India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, RSA, some South American countries may bid, but will be blunder IMO. Populist party in Poland lost, but the Itallians may fall in the trap under Meloni. 

 

Have you seen the state of Delhi's CWG venues today? They are in ruins, much like those of Rio, Athens' Olympic standard venues. 

 

 

Fully agree on Olympics being a white elephant project(in it's current state) but it will be a great push for Indian sports and even foreign tourism and soft power. 

 

Eventually in future reforms will be made by the Olympics committee making it more viable for developing countries to organise the Olympics. 

 

Don't be so pessimistic due to the UPA era CWG scam. At some point in future we will have to bite the bullet and host the olympics. 

 

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

Kitna bada feku chand hai yeh @Lone Wolf.......

 

Dhele bhar ka knowledge.....aur batein .......

[rangeelaraja]

@Lone Wolf   - sorry for being harsh.....but this is was too provocative....limit mein phenka kar yaaar itni badi badi....

[Lone Wolf]

4 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

 

Bhai @Lone Wolf   --- with such extreme limited knowledge ...itni baadi baadi kaise haank lete ho ? Thucydides' Trap lol.

 

You are utterly clueless about geopolitics and geoeconomics...you utter anything based on random knowledge but try to pretend as if you are some guru.

 

Thucydides' Trap theory is when the emerging power is becoming a military peer and economic rival.  In today's world - it also means industrial and manufacturing capacity and strength. 

 

We don't make any hi-tech cutting edge weapons to even come close to being a military peer. Even tiny European countries like Sweden make 100 times better hitech weapons. We are not an economic rival to West, we are a tiny fraction of their size in $ terms...and we will lose the demographic advantage if we don't grow exponentially in the next 25 years. 

 

West doesn't consider us a rival and wont for the next 30 years....infact they are eager to be our benefactor ...so that if our income levels grow , our purchasing and spending capacity grows...their companies can benefit.....just like they benefitted with China's exponential growth.

 

The only factual thing in your argument is they don't want homegrown companies to spring up in India, and want us to be just consumers not creators.  

 

The rest of all you said is utter BS.  Kahan se aata hai itna confidence ?

 

Wow this is some la la land level thinking. 

Do read about Michael Pillsbury's The Hundred Year Marathon Page 9 and 10 especially.  This includes those American policy makers visit into China during mid to late 90's.

It explains how American policymakers believed that assisting China's development would lead to its democratization and alignment with Western values but instead China used this support strategically to strengthen itself while pursuing its own long-term goals. The book highlights how this miscalculation was part of a broader strategy by China to achieve dominance without confrontation.

 

The world is yet to see a English speaking 6-7% growing 1.2 billion+ population with 7000$ per capita... if you don't believe this is the actual threat to a known hegemon then I don't know what world you are living in

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

13 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Wow this is some la la land level thinking. 

Do read about Michael Pillsbury's The Hundred Year Marathon Page 9 and 10 especially.  This includes those American policy makers visit into China during mid to late 90's.

It explains how American policymakers believed that assisting China's development would lead to its democratization and alignment with Western values but instead China used this support strategically to strengthen itself while pursuing its own long-term goals. The book highlights how this miscalculation was part of a broader strategy by China to achieve dominance without confrontation.

 

The world is yet to see a English speaking 6-7% growing 1.2 billion+ population with 7000$ per capita... if you don't believe this is the actual threat to a known hegemon then I don't know what world you are living in

 

 

 

 

You fool and distract no one...by this sort of Zakir Naik type fakery, page no. 9, 10...20...etc etc.. ...Be it references to  Michael Pillsbury or Graham T. Allison works.  So keep you BS to yourself and use your common sense.

 

The West relies on trade and the ability of its companies to sell so that they can prosper economically, since they face severe aging and declining population.

 

India is the only beacon of hope for them....a prosperous India with growing income levels for the next 30 years is in entirely in the West's interest.

 

India can't make it's own weapons to defend itself,  it does not have hi-tech companies that can rival the west ....China has it ALL,  nor does it have manufacturing muscle currently.  

 

So keep your random knowledge to yourself.  Your china comparison is also invalid ...because we have always been a democracy.

 

It will take us another 15 years  atleast to reach $7000 per capita...and by that time dollar would devalue significantly due to overprinting ( economics samajta hai tujhe babu ?? )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[Lone Wolf]

@rangeelaraja your defence argument about high tech and cutting edge weaponry will anyways be redundant just a easy example would be if India tries getting a base in Indian Oceans... The whole lot of mayo monkeys would start to jump out even today.

[rangeelaraja]

7 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

@rangeelaraja your defence argument about high tech and cutting edge weaponry will anyways be redundant just a easy example would be if India tries getting a base in Indian Oceans... The whole lot of mayo monkeys would start to jump out even today.

 

Hain ? So India will be a "supa=power" without being able to make its own weapons but by just building a base in Indian ocean ?

 

We already have bases in Andaman Nicobar...far east that are not too far from Malacca strait.

 

To sustain a kinetic war.....one needs to have its own ability to make weapons not just technology but industrial capacity to make them in large numbers. We lack both.  We have dependencies with several countries. 

 

We have a long long long way to go.  Just sheer numbers in population don't make greatness. We are 30 years away from even "qualifying" as a candidate for Thucydides' Trap

 

Edited March 6, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[Lone Wolf]

7 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

You fool and distract no one...by this sort of Zakir Naik type fakery, page no. 9, 10...20...etc etc.. ...Be it references to  Michael Pillsbury or Graham T. Allison works.  So keep you BS to yourself and use your common sense.

 

The West relies on trade and the ability of its companies to sell so that they can prosper economically, since they face severe aging and declining population.

 

India is the only beacon of hope for them....a prosperous India with growing income levels for the next 30 years is in entirely in the West's interest.

 

India can't make it's own weapons to defend itself,  it does not have hi-tech companies that can rival the west ....China has it ALL,  nor does it have manufacturing muscle currently.  

 

So keep your random knowledge to yourself.  Your china comparison is also invalid ...because we have always been a democracy.

 

It will take us another 15 years  atleast to reach $7000 per capita...and by that time dollar would devalue significantly due to overprinting ( economics samajta hai tujhe babu ?? )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dude you are randomly giving vague examples without any concrete argument nor any case study about your said claims which are far from reality tbh.

And you view India from a very pre 2000is to mid 2000's lens.  Our current defence budget stands above 80 billion f***in dollars & we are growing around 6-7%.

Any nation when it reaches $4000 per capita, embarks on an industrialisation phase. The same happened in China since 2001 and we have been in a commodity supercycle since mid 2000s till late 2010s.

 

What I do know our biggest challenge is actually that we are severely lacking in resources to do or go in the direction where China went

That's where we have to balance between both US and China & keep biding our time and take benefit from wherever we can.

But gosh you are following Gandhian style crap with Vasudev Kutumbukum whole world is a family crap lmao

[Lone Wolf]

8 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

Hain ? So India will be a "supa=power" without being able to make its own weapons but by just building a base in Indian ocean ?

 

We already have bases in Andaman Nicobar...far east that are not too far from Malacca strait.

 

To sustain a kinetic war.....one needs to have its own ability to make weapons not just technology but industrial capacity to make them in large numbers. We lack both.  We have dependencies with several countries. 

 

We have a long long long way to go.  Just sheer numbers in population don't make greatness. We are 30 years away from even "qualifying" as a candidate for Thucydides' Trap

 

I just gave an example that how it would cause those burgers to lose their sh*t.. of course I know without a self sustaining MIC any such move is basically stupid in every sense.

 

Sometime back I'd have agreed with your point that we maybe 30 years away from reaching that point of threat level but signs are we are already under attack as soon as we have hit 3000$ mark.

India earns its nickname as the “pharmacy of the world” by supplying a massive share of global generic drugs but lately headlines have been dominated by reports of quality control lapses and regulatory failures. A tarnished reputation makes it harder for India to compete in global markets and maintain its geopolitical influence. It's pushing news articles and social media posts to drag India’s value down and the recent pharma exposé is a key piece of that puzzle. We need to be vigilant call out these articles and posts that tarnish our reputation or it’s game over.

Edited March 6, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[rangeelaraja]

15 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Dude you are randomly giving vague examples without any concrete argument nor any case study about your said claims which are far from reality tbh.

And you view India from a very pre 2000is to mid 2000's lens.  Our current defence budget stands above 80 billion f***in dollars & we are growing around 6-7%.

Any nation when it reaches $4000 per capita, embarks on an industrialisation phase. The same happened in China since 2001 and we have been in a commodity supercycle since mid 2000s till late 2010s.

 

What I do know our biggest challenge is actually that we are severely lacking in resources to do or go in the direction where China went

That's where we have to balance between both US and China & keep biding our time and take benefit from wherever we can.

But gosh you are following Gandhian style crap with Vasudev Kutumbukum whole world is a family crap lmao

 

You are an utterly clueless, now trying to defend the non-sense that you uttered after I decided to throw down the hammer and call your BS.

 

Quote

Any nation when it reaches $4000 per capita, embarks on an industrialisation phase.

Says who ? Where did you pull this BS from ??? Does $4000 today have the same value as it did 20 years back or will $7000 be the same in 15 years as it means now.

Heard of currency devaluation ? Inflation  ?  

 

China, Japan, even South Korea....grew at close to 10 % for 20-25 years....we will never achieve in 7 % consistently for this period of time.

 

Quote

Our current defence budget stands above 80 billion f***in dollars & we are growing around 6-7%.

 

Again a totally clueless comment. Do you know how much of that budget goes into pensions vs. capital expenditures for new hardware ? A tiny Israel has a budget of over $30 B.

 

 

 

Quote

What I do know our biggest challenge is actually that we are severely lacking in resources to do or go in the direction where China went

That's where we have to balance between both US and China & keep biding our time and take benefit from wherever we can.

 

No you clueless thingy. ---Our biggest challenge is the lack of home grown cutting edge technologies by homegrown private companies who don't invest in R&D.....Japan did it at their peak with electronics,  automobiles,  Korea, Taiwan did with electronics, semiconductors, automobiles....China is doing it now ...in all critical technologies.

 

Whereas we have Narayan Murthy's who create IT services sweat shops...

 

ICF mein badi badi bakchodi chhhod ke thoda bahut padhai likhai kar de babu...tera hi bhala hoga.

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[Lone Wolf]

11 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

You are an utterly clueless cuckoo, now trying to defend the non-sense that you uttered after I decided to throw down the hammer and call your BS.

 

Says who ? Where did you pull this BS from ??? Does $4000 today have the same value as it did 20 years back or will $7000 be the same in 15 years as it means now.

Heard of currency devaluation ? Inflation  ?  

 

China, Japan, even South Korea....grew at close to 10 % for 20-25 years....we will never achieve in 7 % consistently for this period of time.

 

 

Again a totally clueless comment. Do you know how much of that budget goes into pensions vs. capital expenditures for new hardware ? A tiny Israel has a budget of over $30 B.

 

 

 

 

No you clueless thingy. ---Our biggest challenge is the lack of home grown cutting edge technologies by homegrown private companies who don't invest in R&D.....Japan did it at their peak with electronics,  automobiles,  Korea, Taiwan did with electronics, semiconductors, automobiles....China is doing it now ...in all critical technologies.

 

Whereas we have Narayan Murthy's who create IT services sweat shops...

 

ICF mein badi badi bakchodi chhhod ke thoda bahut padhai likhai kar de babu...tera hi bhala hoga.

 

 

 

You Just killed your entire argument when you said who said that

Per capita income and percentage of labour force virtually go hand in hand even as vague as an example as agriculture.

This is 101 simple economics.  Tale old as even Industrial revolution begins 

 Keep rest of that BS to yourself lol

 

Edited March 6, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[rangeelaraja]

4 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Per capita income and percentage of labour force virtually go hand in hand even as vague as an example as agriculture.

This is 101 simple economics.   

 

 

 

 

 Ok sir.  Did not know this brand of "economics"  

[Lone Wolf]

14 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

 Ok sir.  Did not know this brand of "economics"