Indian cricket team without Bumrah

[Trichromatic]

Matches: 27

Won: 18

Lost: 5

Draw: 3

 

Notable victories: Gabba 2021

[Trichromatic]

With Bumrah

Matches: 46

Won: 20

Lost: 22

Draw: 4

[New guy]

Correlation NOT = Causation 

[rkt.india]

15 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Matches: 27

Won: 18

Lost: 5

Draw: 3

 

Notable victories: Gabba 2021

Bring overseas test data only. 

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Bring overseas test data only. 

 

Why?

 

Anyway outside Asia

With Bumrah

Matches: 34

Won: 12

Lost: 18

Draw: 4

 

WIthout Bumrah

Matches: 7

Won: 2

Lost: 3

Draw: 1

 

[express bowling]

In India, we won  tests primarily using spinners and reverse swing specialists like Shami and Umesh.  

 

And we can and have won against weak WI using anyone we want. 

 

Bumrah's real need in test matches arises and arose in tests in SENA.

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 05:21 AM by express bowling

[Gollum]

Other bowlers are forced to step up in the absence of Bumrah. Or maybe opponents loosen up a little bit when they see Bumrah missing in our team sheet. Psychology could play a part.....Poms might have been more focused on day 2 evening had Bumrah been there. 

 

This also shows that in a team sport, individual brilliance is a tad overrated. Messi in his peak years couldn't win Argentina even a Copa, but in his old age was aided by team mates, his team worked together better than ever before and became more than sum of the parts. Portugal won 2016 Euros final against a monster French side (also France were hosts) despite Ronaldo's early injury and departure from the field. 

Edited Saturday at 05:48 AM by Gollum

[Gollum]

25 minutes ago, express bowling said:

In India, we won  tests primarily using spinners and reverse swing specialists like Shami and Umesh.  

 

And we can and have won against weak WI using anyone we want. 

 

Bumrah's real need in test matches arises and arose in tests in SENA.

Bumrah has had a major hand in at least half a dozen wins in RSA, Eng, Aus. Perhaps no other Indian cricketer comes close in having such a big influence on our SENA fortunes. Only NZ has been his nemesis.

 

Hope he comes back and helps us take a 2-1 lead in Lord's. 

[express bowling]

Bumrah's real need in test matches arises and arose in tests in SENA. So this is the relevant stat.

 

Off the top of my head, our only win IN SENA without Bumrah, since Bumrah's test debut, has been ....

 

Gabba 2021.

 

While our wins with Bumrah in SENA include

 

 

1 test in SA 2018

1 test in Eng 2018

2 tests in Aus 2018 / 19 .. Series won

1 test in Aus 2020 / 21 .. Series won

2 tests in Eng 2021 .. Series drawn

1 test in SA 2021

1 test in SA 2023 .. Series drawn

1 test in Aus 2024

 

So, till 1st test in Eng 2025, we have won 10 tests with Bumrah and won 1 test without Bumrah in SENA since his test debut.

Edited Saturday at 06:25 AM by express bowling

[Trichromatic]

26 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Other bowlers are forced to step up in the absence of Bumrah. Or maybe opponents loosen up a little bit when they see Bumrah missing in our team sheet. Psychology could play a part.....Poms might have been more focused on day 2 evening had Bumrah been there. 

 

This also shows that in a team sport, individual brilliance is a tad overrated. Messi in his peak years couldn't win Argentina even a Copa, but in his old age was aided by team mates, his team worked together better than ever before and became more than sum of the parts. Portugal won 2016 Euros final against a monster French side (also France were hosts) despite Ronaldo's early injury and departure from the field. 

I think Indian captains also tend to focus more on Bumrah and run him to ground.

 

Their on field game plan revolves around bringing Bumrah as only option while reducing effectiveness of other bowlers.

[Trichromatic]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Bumrah's real need in test matches arises and arose in tests in SENA. So this is the relevant stat.

 

Off the top of my head, our only win IN SENA without Bumrah, since Bumrah's test debut, has been ....

 

Gabba 2021.

 

While our wins with Bumrah in SENA include

 

 

1 test in SA 2018

1 test in Eng 2018

2 tests in Aus 2018 / 19

2 tests in Eng 2021

1 test in SA 2021

1 test in SA 2023

1 test in Aus 2024

 

So, till 1st test in Eng 2025, we have won 9 tests with Bumrah and won 1 test without Bumrah in SENA since his test debut.

 

Team will win 2nd test without Bumrah and probably 1 more in this series.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Why?

 

Anyway outside Asia

With Bumrah

Matches: 34

Won: 12

Lost: 18

Draw: 4

 

WIthout Bumrah

Matches: 7

Won: 2

Lost: 3

Draw: 1

 

Because Siraj statwise is one of the worst fast bowlers at home.

[cowboysfan]

we are consistently losing even with Bumrah,lack of good line length bowlers in the team is killing us.

[Gollum]

2 test series in NZ next year. Just hope Bumrah plays both those tests and helps us win 2-0. That will be as big an achievement as 2020-21 BGT for me, had enough of Kiwis bullying us. Last 50 years we have won just one test there !!!!!

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Team will win 2nd test without Bumrah and probably 1 more in this series.

 

 

I will be very happy if it happens.

 

But, in the last 3 years, we are moving in the wrong direction regarding Fast bowling.

 

In the 2016 to mid 2022 period we had a group of 3 to 4 pacers at the same time whose bodies were ready for bowling 20 overs a day with effort, who could pitch the ball in the right areas ball after ball while hitting the deck hard, who would bowl 135 to 145 k whole day with accuracy.

 

First it was Shami, Ishant, Umesh .. then Bumrah joined .. then Ishant and Umesh left and were replaced by Siraj

 

Since then, only Bumrah can do all of the above. Siraj has regressed innthe last 2 years. And no one new has the ingredients except Harshit.

 

Need new pacers who have the fitness and will to bowl 20 overs a day with effort and accuracy.

[Trichromatic]

40 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I will be very happy if it happens.

 

But, in the last 3 years, we are moving in the wrong direction regarding Fast bowling.

 

In the 2016 to mid 2022 period we had a group of 3 to 4 pacers at the same time whose bodies were ready for bowling 20 overs a day with effort, who could pitch the ball in the right areas ball after ball while hitting the deck hard, who would bowl 135 to 145 k whole day with accuracy.

 

First it was Shami, Ishant, Umesh .. then Bumrah joined .. then Ishant and Umesh left and were replaced by Siraj

 

Since then, only Bumrah can do all of the above. Siraj has regressed innthe last 2 years. And no one new has the ingredients except Harshit.

 

Need new pacers who have the fitness and will to bowl 20 overs a day with effort and accuracy.

 

Overall mentality of management and captain has shifted towards Bumrah or nothing. Way too much focus on him only.

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Overall mentality of management and captain has shifted towards Bumrah or nothing. Way too much focus on him only.

 

Very true.

[Number]

Americans have done some research on it and it's called Ewing Paradox.

Teams play better when their star players miss out.

 

https://www.nbccamps.com/blog/why-teams-play-better-when-the-dominant-star-player-is-out-of-the-game

[govinda]

10 minutes ago, Number said:

Americans have done some research on it and it's called Ewing Paradox.

Teams play better when their star players miss out.

 

https://www.nbccamps.com/blog/why-teams-play-better-when-the-dominant-star-player-is-out-of-the-game

But india in 90s used to play like **** when sachin was not there

[crictime]

Jaaprit Bumrah is the greatest Indian pacer ever.

 

Test:

 

Matches : 46

Wickets : 210

Average : 19.60

Strike rate :  41.3

Eco rate : 2.77

5 fer : 14

 

India is better with him in the team, not in the absence of him.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 01:04 PM by crictime