Tracking Ashwin and Jadeja career analysis on non turners overall

[Manucrick]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

How was Ind-NZ 2016 highly spin friendly ones where Pujara avg 74, Rahane 70, Sharma 80 and I saw Bhuvi destroying kiwis with 5-fer on one of the rare pace friendly pitches?

That was in Kolkata it was super match

[Gollum]

BGT 2013, Ind vs NZ 2016 were played on proper pitches. NZ series especially had something for everyone, in final test I think Kohli and Rahane had a 400 runs partnership.

 

Even in others, not all were turners.

 

Ranchi test of 2017 BGT was a black soil patta where we scored 600+, Dharamsala behaved like an Aussie pitch.

 

2015 Delhi another patta where Rahane scored 100s in both innings, and Umesh proved to be the difference. Nobody bats for 150 overs in 4th innings on a non-patta.

 

Against Eng in 21, 1st test was a patta and final test had plenty of help for quicks, Stokes and Anderson almost levelled the series but for that epic partnership between Pant and Washi.

 

23 Ahmedabad another patta. 

Edited October 4, 2025 by Gollum

[Gollum]

2016-17 home season had awesome pitches. Couple of rank turners, couple of seam friendly wickets, rest were high scoring where even our #9 could score a 100. Against NZ, Eng, Aus. That is what made that season so incredible to follow. 9-1 for us, 2 draws, that team's peak. 

[Gollum]

Undeniable that pitches in 2000s were flatter, and not just in India but worldwide, so many 50+ averaging batsmen in 2000s including guys like Mahela, Yousuf, YK, Sehwag, Dravid who would have found it tougher in this era. No wonder that decade saw so many draws.

 

But our pitches were still good pre pandemic, result oriented and entertaining but went 4-5 days, and big roles for Shami, Umesh. Kohli, Pujara averaged in 60s at home till 2019. 

 

21-24 had more bad pitches at home especially against stronger sides like Eng, Aus, NZ. 24 vs Eng had good pitches but against NZ last year we pressed the panic button unnecessarily after being blown out for 46 in Bengaluru. Just that our dumb captain decided to bat 1st against Henry, Southee when pitch had been under covers for 10 days in the lead up....Rohit decided to give charge against Southee 1st ball, and we played 2 pacers, 3 spinners on that track!!! 

Edited October 4, 2025 by Gollum

[Majestic]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I woud put the blame on batting more. India has collapsed in Bangladesh 74/7 Ashwin bailed us out. Then against Bangladesh in India we collapsed once again Ashwin and Jadeja put on a  big partnership, There was one test against Australia India collapsed badly then Axar and Ashwin added 100 runs. This NZ series is the first series where both went missing with bat. In his yT channel he even mentioned thatt his non contribution with bat hurt him the most. Our tail bailed us out so many times at home. 

Those pitches were definitely spin friendly. Santner destroyed India and we were completely clueless. Not just the senior batters but even young in form players like Sarfaraz, Jaiswal had tough time. Pant showed some intent but those pitches were hard to score and as a result he got out trying to be more aggressive.

 

Anyways, the point I am trying to make through this post is that even after removing those overly spin friendly pitches, you notice how Ashwin still manages an average of 26 with bowl, that is great itself. Jadeja is at 29 and that’s what most agree in his case.

[deathmonger]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

2016-17 home season had awesome pitches. Couple of rank turners, couple of seam friendly wickets, rest were high scoring where even our #9 could score a 100. Against NZ, Eng, Aus. That is what made that season so incredible to follow. 9-1 for us, 2 draws, that team's peak. 

2019 home season too

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

Those pitches were definitely spin friendly. Santner destroyed India and we were completely clueless. Not just the senior batters but even young in form players like Sarfaraz, Jaiswal had tough time. Pant showed some intent but those pitches were hard to score and as a result he got out trying to be more aggressive.

 

Anyways, the point I am trying to make through this post is that even after removing those overly spin friendly pitches, you notice how Ashwin still manages an average of 26 with bowl, that is great itself. Jadeja is at 29 and that’s what most agree in his case.

 

Some of the pitches were not quiet the turners. But there were some natural variations.  Also SG ball offers more purchase than kookaburra. Natural variations cannot be predicted which is where Jadeja was immensely dangerous.  Ashwin relies a bit on bounce and pace.  There is a difference between slow turner and fast turner. It depends on red soil or black soil pitch.  Black soil pitches are slower, bounce is less one that we offered on a platter to AUssies in the final.  @Gollum   probably have more data on that

 

For instance against Bangladesh at chennai India imported red soil from Mumbai and used it where there was more bounce and pace. REmember our top order got exposed by Bangladesh seamers India was 144/6 . Then Ashwin and Jadeja added 199 runs for 7th wicket

 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/bangladesh-in-india-2024-25-1439844/india-vs-bangladesh-1st-test-1439891/full-scorecard

 

In the next test slow low bounce black soilt pitch was used. REmember India made 287 runs in 34 overs.

[BCCISelector]

7 hours ago, Majestic said:

But after removing these turners, Ashwin still averages 26. Harbhajan was at 32. So, not sure these numbers are reinforcing what you want to reinforce from them.

Read what else I've written there about the quality of batters too. 

 

Warne averaged 56 in India, Murali averaged 45. Next you'll say Ashwin >>> Warne. Ashwin >> Murali.

 

My point is very well reinforced.

[BCCISelector]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bhajji and Ashwin played a few tests together. Ashwin totally obliterated Bhajji in those tests

Bhajji had a terminal decline in form around 2010-11. I'm sure Ojha and Mishra also outbowled him after that.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, BCCISelector said:

Bhajji had a terminal decline in form around 2010-11. I'm sure Ojha and Mishra also outbowled him after that.

Ojha was a chucker much like Bhajji was.

[BCCISelector]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Ojha was a chucker much like Bhajji was.

Lol, going by that logic Murali was also a chucker.

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, BCCISelector said:

Lol, going by that logic Murali was also a chucker.

Who said he wasn't. Bhajji was banned from bowling doosra. Dramatic decline after that.

[bsriharsha]

Harbhajan stunk the place up bowling darts on leg stump for a large portion of his career. That largely coincided with when he was forced to modify his action so as to avoid being called as a chucker. 

 

Had he continued to bowl without modifying his action, he might well have gotten more wickets ala Murali 

 

Ashwin didn't need to chuck in the first place. Superior bowler to harbhajan and it isn't close. 

Edited October 4, 2025 by bsriharsha

[bsriharsha]

2 hours ago, BCCISelector said:

Lol, going by that logic Murali was also a chucker.

He's probably the one blatant chucker that got away. 

 

The real time cameras only came into place after Murali had retired. 

 

Ajmal was caught chucking at 45 degrees then having before proven , like Murali , that he could bowl the doosra legally in certain predetermined conditions. 

 

 

[putrevus]

What will be Imran Khan's avg and also other Pakistani bowlers averages without reverse swing and ball tampering.

 

Ashwin and Jadeja are ATG great all rounders they don't need any justification from anyone to prove their stats.

 

Indian teams played on most fast bowler friendly wickets when touring SENA, so their impact would be less.

 

Guy like Murali got away with blatant chucking because Asian block backed him and other chuckers.

 

Siddu treated Murali like rag doll his predoosra days.Safe to assume he would have been a very orinary bowler if he did not resort to chucking his doosra.

Edited October 4, 2025 by putrevus

[Vilander]

On 10/4/2025 at 7:18 AM, BCCISelector said:

 

Warne averaged 56 in India, Murali averaged 45. Next you'll say Ashwin >>> Warne. Ashwin >> Murali.

 

My point is very well reinforced

Strawman. Respond to what people write not to your convenient antithesis interpretation. 
 

and reinforce your point, instead of claiming it’s reinforced ( when there is none). 
 

 

[BCCISelector]

On 10/7/2025 at 3:59 PM, Vilander said:

and reinforce your point, instead of claiming it’s reinforced ( when there is none). 

This Kolkata Test just proved that you don't need to be an extraordinary spinner to take wickets on these dustbowls that turn square and bounce unpredictably from Day 1.

If Harmer and Santner played most of their careers on such pitches, I'm sure they would have ended up with similar numbers as Ashwin and Jadeja.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, BCCISelector said:

This Kolkata Test just proved that you don't need to be an extraordinary spinner to take wickets on these dustbowls that turn square and bounce unpredictably from Day 1.

If Harmer and Santner played most of their careers on such pitches, I'm sure they would have ended up with similar numbers as Ashwin and Jadeja.

India did not always have pitches like this. ONly after 2020 they had.  Santner was a failed project. He has played tests before. To be fair Ashwin didn't exactly take bucket load of wickets on these wickets either. 

[Lord]

13 hours ago, BCCISelector said:

This Kolkata Test just proved that you don't need to be an extraordinary spinner to take wickets on these dustbowls that turn square and bounce unpredictably from Day 1.

If Harmer and Santner played most of their careers on such pitches, I'm sure they would have ended up with similar numbers as Ashwin and Jadeja.

 

if Bhuvi and Shami bowled on pitches like SA/NZ, they'd been GOATs. Just reversing your brown sepoy argument

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

if Bhuvi and Shami bowled on pitches like SA/NZ, they'd been GOATs. Just reversing your brown sepoy argument

We find a way to put down our players. It is not easy to maintain such a streak. Teams will come up with plans always. Besides before 2020 we rarely played on such pitches. Most of our wins came on good wickets.