Jansen taking wickets with bounce on a flat deck .... while our pacers, despite having pace, are unwilling to use bounce as a weapon from 2023 onwards and look ineffective if the ball is not moving

[express bowling]

Most Indian pacers these days can bowl 140 k+ and have good bumpers and rising short balls. ( And Shami, Bumrah and Ishant used short balls liberally in the 2015 to 2022 period and were very successful. Even Umesh improved his bumpers )

 

But from 2023 onwards Indian pacers seem very reluctant to use bounce either as set up balls or as a wicket taking option. 

 

They think like medium pacers although they can generate pace and bounce. From 2023 onwards, Indian pacers just want to depend on moving the ball. Ball is not moving and they give up mentally and concede huge totals.

 

It is a mindset thing. If we listen to domestic cricket commentary, no one talks about hitting the deck hard and generating bounce. There is very little talk of seam movement either. They just say, pitch it up and swing it. They just think about inswing and outswing. Ball not swinging then go to spinners.

 

No wonder we have never produced a sub-26 averaging pacer in tests before Bumrah. ( 100 + test wickets )

 

Our approach to pace bowling is a very limited approach.

 

Our quicker pacers must think like fast bowlers and not medium pacers. They must use bounce both as set up balls as well as a wicket taking option. 

 

Just think about it .... Ball is not swinging or seaming much. How can you force batters to make mistakes ? You must stop their front foot from moving forward decisively. Do it by bowling bumpers liberally, atleast 1 every over and maybe 2 even. Then even a straight good length ball may be edged. And a couple of bumpers may fetch wickets too.

 

Bumrah, Siraj, Harshit, Prasidh, Akashdeep etc. must think about it. Morkel too.

 

Interestingly, our slowest pacer Arshdeep Singh, uses bumpers liberally both as set up balls and as a wicket taking option. He thinks like a fast bowler despite lacking pace and succeeds in this approach due to his height. Harshit and Prasidh are decent regarding bouncer use too.

 

Edited November 24, 2025 by express bowling

[MK55]

May be our batters just suck in pressure situations. Also most of our bowlers are past their prime. 
And New bowlers haven’t been developed thanks to our moronic short sighted selections. 
You can’t really bring a fundamental change if you have mediocrity low ceiling players to begin with. No amount of training will help u if that ceiling itself is low.

Edited November 24, 2025 by MK55

[putrevus]

Bumrah and co were exposed in 2021 itself in SA itself  when they couldn’t do anything to defend two 4th innings totals. So nothing new here.

 

Bumrah especially was found wanting when Thakur out bowled him in second test. Then  Rabada and Jansen had bounce to supplement their seam movement .

 

You cannot get bounce like Jansen  , he is much taller. Getting bounce from length and bowling bouncers are two different things.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2025 by putrevus

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, MK55 said:

Also most of our bowlers are past their prime. 

 

Bumrah and Siraj are just 31. Starc and Wood are bowling flat out at age 35.

 

10 minutes ago, MK55 said:

And New bowlers haven’t been developed thanks to our moronic short sighted selections. 

 

True.

 

10 minutes ago, MK55 said:

 

You can’t really bring a fundamental change if you have mediocrity low ceiling players to begin with. No amount of training will help u if that ceiling itself is low.

 

Generating bounce is a fundamentally basic thing in pace bowling. 

 

Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Harshit, Prasidh, Gurnoor all are capable of doing it and none of their ceilings are low. 

 

It is just poor tactics and mindset. 

[Lone Wolf]

I am yet to see a full blown Bouncer barrage from Indian Pacers since ages now...

We are too one dimensional..

 

Miss those days of Umbrose

 

Edited November 24, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I yet to see a full blown Bouncer barrage from Indian Pacers since ages now...

We are too one dimensional..

 

Miss these days of Umbrose

 

 

And look at how quick Umesh is bowling here. Regularly went upto the high 140s or even 150 k in his heydays.

 

Bumrah has bowled just two 144 k+ balls in this series so far (  mostly in the 137 k to 143 k range ) and Siraj is hardly crossing 140 k even. ( mostly in the 132 k to 138 k range ).

 

This pace does not work on standard Asian decks unless you get bounce like Jansen.

Edited November 24, 2025 by express bowling

[vvvslaxman]

I don't agree with this bouncer strategy. We don't have bowler who is 6' 9". He can generate steep bounce from good length.  You can't replicate that. Shami never indulged in any bouncer barrage. He just used as a surprise weapon.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

I don't agree with this bouncer strategy. We don't have bowler who is 6' 9". He can generate steep bounce from good length.  You can't replicate that. Shami never indulged in any bouncer barrage. He just used as a surprise weapon.

 

Not talking about 5 bouncers an over but bowling 1 or 2 bumpers every over. Every quicker pacer can and should do it. 

 

And you don't need 6'7" pacers for bouncer strategy. Lillee, Imran, Marshall, Wasim, Donald, Srinath, Steyn, Ntini etc. all have used bouncer barrages despite being 5'10" to 6'2" and not bowling express pace while doing this. 

 

Neil Wagner, shortish height and medium pace, has used bouncer barrages so effectively.

Edited November 24, 2025 by express bowling

[rollingstoned]

I saw Siraj using bounce in the first innings tbh. But it came usually as a response to getting hit. In India they think the ball will move or reverse & wickets will come from attacking stumps so it is an afterthought. 

[Lone Wolf]

15 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I don't agree with this bouncer strategy. We don't have bowler who is 6' 9". He can generate steep bounce from good length.  You can't replicate that. Shami never indulged in any bouncer barrage. He just used as a surprise weapon.

You gotta mix lengths to keep the batsman guessing push him on backfoot and then use the fuller swinging yorkers and even use reverse swing to full effect.

 

Also inconsistent bounce on Indian tracks makes quick short stuff not that easy to play.

 

[Vk1]

Root cause might be fitness reasons.

Siraj and Bumrah need rest. We cannot compare them with SENA bowlers and expect them to play everything. There was no need for Siraj to play the tests against Windies.. ODIs in aus and couple of A games as well. Don't forget that he did all this after his herculean effort in England. Gambhir and Morkel seem to be crippling the team in multiple ways

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

I saw Siraj using bounce in the first innings tbh. But it came usually as a response to getting hit. In India they think the ball will move or reverse & wickets will come from attacking stumps so it is an afterthought. 

 

They use the bouncer or rising short ball only if the match is almost gone.

 

Like Bumrah used 7 or 8 pretty hostile bumpers in his last spell bowling his 30th to 32nd over. Went upto 146 kph too. A catch was dropped off a bumper and Jansen got hit on the arm and was soon out.

 

But it was too late then. 

 

If they used even one bumper per over, to push the batter on the back foot right from the start, results might have been different. 

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

You gotta mix lengths to keep the batsman guessing push him on backfoot and then use the fuller swinging yorkers and even use reverse swing to full effect.

 

Exactly my point.

 

9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Also inconsistent bounce on Indian tracks makes quick short stuff not that easy to play.

 

 

Very true. Akram always says that the bumpers and rising balls are much more effective on uneven bounce surfaces. No one knows which balls will bounce and which ones won't.

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

 

Siraj and Bumrah need rest. We cannot compare them with SENA bowlers and expect them to play everything. 

 

Even SENA pacers get injured a lot. Archer was out for 3 years. Wood is more injured than fit. Ferguson, Norte, Burger none have the fitness to play tests. Rabada just missed this series. Cummins and Hazlewood are out now. Atkinson returning from injury. Jhye Richardson and Stanlake could not have test careers due to fitness issues. And many more 

 

Answer is to rotate pacers as you said.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Not talking about 5 bouncers an over but bowling 1 or 2 bumpers every over. Every quicker pacer can and should do it. 

 

And you don't need 6'7" pacers for bouncer strategy. Lillee, Imran, Marshall, Wasim, Donald, Srinath, Steyn, Ntini etc. all have used bouncer barrages despite being 5'11" to 6'2" and not bowling express pace while doing this. 

 

Neil Wagner, shortish height and medium pace, have used bouncer barrages so effectively.

 

Bouncer takes  a lot out of you. I don't think our bowlers are good enough to bowl long spells mixed with bouncers.  Besides they have to pitch way too short to get up to chest level. 

[express bowling]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

Bouncer takes  a lot out of you. I don't think our bowlers are good enough to bowl long spells mixed with bouncers.  Besides they have to pitch way too short to get up to chest level. 

 

One bouncer an over is pretty standard stuff in pace bowling.

 

None of them are bowling long spells.

 

Bumrah's bouncers are vicious when he bowls them. Even Siraj's bouncers are pretty good. 

[Suhaan]

55 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I am yet to see a full blown Bouncer barrage from Indian Pacers since ages now...

We are too one dimensional..

 

Miss those days of Umbrose

 

Im missing Umesh and Shami more than any other bowler here

[Suhaan]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

One bouncer an over is pretty standard stuff in pace bowling.

 

None of them are bowling long spells.

 

Bumrah's bouncers are vicious when he bowls them. Even Siraj's bouncers are pretty good. 

They are saving their back for IPL

 

[express bowling]

Hardly any seam or swing on offer. 

 

But 6 wicket haul by Jansen.

 

5 wickets with bounce. 

[nitinbwj]

Trundlers hain sab ke sab