Mitchell Starc overtakes Wasim Akram's record

[Lord]

For most wickets by a left armer. At 415 Test wickets now.

 

Feel he's been underappreciated bcoz of Josh and Cumball. But he's shown here he can stand up in their absence

[vvvslaxman]

He is always a top dog. But other two are just too good .  Guys like him are far more dangerous against bazballers than conventional boring cricketers.  

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

He is always a top dog. But other two are just too good .  Guys like him are far more dangerous against bazballers than conventional boring cricketers.  

 

Whatever he has been able to stamp his authority in absence of Josh,Cummins and now Lyon

 

Can't see many Indian bowlers doing that

[The Hound]

2025 has been his best year in tests. Great performances in WI & now Ashes

[vvvslaxman]

Gillespie is talking about how Starc has added things at this age to his bowling

 

 

[Gollum]

Starc is easily an ATG. Dominated multiple WCs as well. 

 

Unpopular opinion but Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Lyon may be the greatest bowling unit of all time, overall, all conditions considered and because of their longevity. GOAT WI didn't have any frontline spinner, Aus was McWarne and 2 lesser bowlers (Fleming, Gillespie, Lee, Kasper, Bichel.....) who neither had the longevity, nor matchwinning ability. 

 

In SC conditions, mid-late 2010s attack of Shami, Umesh, Ashwin, Jaddu is the undisputed GOAT. That too led by Kohli who was a bowler's captain, never settling for anything short of 20 wickets irrespective of conditions. 

 

In the future we will look back at 2017 BGT with a lot of respect, and gratitude that we were able to follow the matches live. Two legendary teams at the peak of their powers, #1 vs #2, 9-10 ATGs and country greats battling each other. If you compare that Australia, even the recent winning sides of NZ, RSA look like teletubbies. 

[MechEng]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

Starc is easily an ATG. Dominated multiple WCs as well. 

 

Unpopular opinion but Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Lyon may be the greatest bowling unit of all time, overall, all conditions considered and because of their longevity. GOAT WI didn't have any frontline spinner, Aus was McWarne and 2 lesser bowlers (Fleming, Gillespie, Lee, Kasper, Bichel.....) who neither had the longevity, nor matchwinning ability. 

 

In SC conditions, mid-late 2010s attack of Shami, Umesh, Ashwin, Jaddu is the undisputed GOAT. That too led by Kohli who was a bowler's captain, never settling for anything short of 20 wickets irrespective of conditions. 

 

In the future we will look back at 2017 BGT with a lot of respect, and gratitude that we were able to follow the matches live. Two legendary teams at the peak of their powers, #1 vs #2, 9-10 ATGs and country greats battling each other. If you compare that Australia, even the recent winning sides of NZ, RSA look like teletubbies. 

 

Yep, I'd also add that our bowling attack in 2018/19 BG Trophy was arguably the best Indian bowling unit ever since our inception in test cricket circa 1932.

Edited December 7, 2025 by MechEng

[Gollum]

11 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

Yep, I'd also add that our bowling attack in 2018/19 BG Trophy was arguably the best Indian bowling unit ever since our inception in test cricket circa 1932.

Only Australia pushes us to be our best versions, both in men's and women's cricket. Compare the quality of cricket in Ind-Aus matches to Ind vs RSA/NZ/Eng/Pak/SL, and there is a big difference. 

 

Even in recent women's WC, the final against RSA didn't feel like a high stakes match compared to the SF. Dare I say, the quality of cricket wasn't that high while our SF has been rated by neutral experts as the greatest ever women's match of all time. Even in our 2007 WT20, 2011 WC, 2024 WT20, 2025 CT triumphs, it was always Ind vs Aus that was game of the tournament and our toughest test. 

 

Just that 2 great rivals push themselves to become their best versions possible, Ind and Aus is that duo in cricket for the last 2 decades or so. 

 

Even though RSA, NZ won in India in last 2 seasons, it feels unfair that 2017 Australia lost. Compared to these chumps, Aussies played exceptional cricket and Smith touched the greatest peak of batting imaginable....just that India managed to find a higher gear when pushed to the brink. 

Edited December 7, 2025 by Gollum

[Ultimate_Game]

11 hours ago, Gollum said:

Starc is easily an ATG. Dominated multiple WCs as well. 

 

Unpopular opinion but Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Lyon may be the greatest bowling unit of all time, overall, all conditions considered and because of their longevity. GOAT WI didn't have any frontline spinner, Aus was McWarne and 2 lesser bowlers (Fleming, Gillespie, Lee, Kasper, Bichel.....) who neither had the longevity, nor matchwinning ability. 

 

In SC conditions, mid-late 2010s attack of Shami, Umesh, Ashwin, Jaddu is the undisputed GOAT. That too led by Kohli who was a bowler's captain, never settling for anything short of 20 wickets irrespective of conditions. 

 

In the future we will look back at 2017 BGT with a lot of respect, and gratitude that we were able to follow the matches live. Two legendary teams at the peak of their powers, #1 vs #2, 9-10 ATGs and country greats battling each other. If you compare that Australia, even the recent winning sides of NZ, RSA look like teletubbies. 

 

Early 80s WI bowling attack of Marshall, Andy Roberts, Holding, Garner was still the best. Though there wasn't a mainstream spinner but the quality of pacers and depth - they had a great bench-strength in fast bowling at that time - was out of this world. That bowling lineup had 4 ATGs in the lineup.

 

Then the Aussies bowling attack of early 2000s was one of the greatest ever with McGrath, Brett Lee, Warne and Gillespie backed by Fleming, Bichel, Kasperpwicz etc. The quality of that bowling lineup was better with 2 ATGs in McGrath and Warne with Lee an almost ATG.

 

After these two, the Aussie lineup of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon comes next. Probably on par with late 90s SA bowling lineup of Donald, Pollock, Fanie DeVilliers, McMillan, Kallis, Symcox etc.

[Gollum]

6 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Early 80s WI bowling attack of Marshall, Andy Roberts, Holding, Garner was still the best. Though there wasn't a mainstream spinner but the quality of pacers and depth - they had a great bench-strength in fast bowling at that time - was out of this world. That bowling lineup had 4 ATGs in the lineup.

 

Then the Aussies bowling attack of early 2000s was one of the greatest ever with McGrath, Brett Lee, Warne and Gillespie backed by Fleming, Bichel, Kasperpwicz etc. The quality of that bowling lineup was better with 2 ATGs in McGrath and Warne with Lee an almost ATG.

 

After these two, the Aussie lineup of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon comes next. Probably on par with late 90s SA bowling lineup of Donald, Pollock, Fanie DeVilliers, McMillan, Kallis, Symcox etc.

Agree to disagree. I think you need a spinner for completeness. WI got lucky that we didn't have big turners in the 80s...Pak, Ind resorted to flat pitches mostly, SL wasn't a force. 

 

McWarne GOATs sure, but Lee was a Srinath level bowler....great in ODIs but nothing special in tests IMO. Gillespie was good but not at the level of current Aus big 3 quicks. Kasper, Bichel etc were Neser type bowlers. Aus unlucky that Pattinson had injury problems, otherwise their pace quartet would have been something. 

 

90s RSA was great but big drop in quality after Donald and Pollock. 

Edited December 7, 2025 by Gollum

[Gollum]

I think Indian attack of Bumrah, Shami, Umesh/Ishant, Ashwin, Jadeja should also be talked about among great attacks. At least in SC conditions, can't think of a more complete unit. 

[Ultimate_Game]

13 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Agree to disagree. I think you need a spinner for completeness. WI got lucky that we didn't have big turners in the 80s...Pak, Ind resorted to flat pitches mostly, SL wasn't a force. 

 

McWarne GOATs sure, but Lee was a Srinath level bowler....great in ODIs but nothing special in tests IMO. Gillespie was good but not at the level of current Aus big 3 quicks. Kasper, Bichel etc were Neser type bowlers. Aus unlucky that Pattinson had injury problems, otherwise their pace quartet would have been something. 

 

90s RSA was great but big drop in quality after Donald and Pollock. 

 

WI of 80s also had Roger Harper and Richards who could bowl spin if needed but the quality of that pace attack was so good they didn't need specialist spinners. 4 ATG pacers in playing XI with backups who could walk into any team was an unreal bowling attack.

 

Aussie bowling in early 2000s was much better as well. McGrath and Warne were better than any Aussie bowler right now. Plus Brett Lee was so much better than Srinath. He could touch 150+ regularly and was accurate. In white-ball he was even better. And the rest weren't too bad either.

 

90s SA had likes of Brian McMillan, Fanie DeVilliers who were more than solid coupled with likes of Donald, Pollock and Kallis and backed up by spin by Symcox, Paul Adams and Nicky Boje. Spin wasn't anything more than solid but the overall bowling lineup was one of the best. There's a reason they became the first team to beat India in India under Cronje in 2000 after a long time. Even Aussies struggled to do so and they needed that helpful Nagpur pitch to be rolled out by that snake Shashank Manohar to win in India. SA did it with comparative ease.

 

11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I think Indian attack of Bumrah, Shami, Umesh/Ishant, Ashwin, Jadeja should also be talked about among great attacks. At least in SC conditions, can't think of a more complete unit. 

 

Indian lineup of Bumrah, Shami, Ishant/Umesh, Ashwin, Jadeja would be one of the most well-rounded attacks. They could match anyone in pace friendly surfaces and were the best on spin-friendly pitches. If they had a pace-allrounder to back the 3 pacers, they would be in contention of ATG bowling lineup.

[putrevus]

12 hours ago, Gollum said:

Starc is easily an ATG. Dominated multiple WCs as well. 

 

Unpopular opinion but Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Lyon may be the greatest bowling unit of all time, overall, all conditions considered and because of their longevity. GOAT WI didn't have any frontline spinner, Aus was McWarne and 2 lesser bowlers (Fleming, Gillespie, Lee, Kasper, Bichel.....) who neither had the longevity, nor matchwinning ability. 

 

In SC conditions, mid-late 2010s attack of Shami, Umesh, Ashwin, Jaddu is the undisputed GOAT. That too led by Kohli who was a bowler's captain, never settling for anything short of 20 wickets irrespective of conditions. 

 

In the future we will look back at 2017 BGT with a lot of respect, and gratitude that we were able to follow the matches live. Two legendary teams at the peak of their powers, #1 vs #2, 9-10 ATGs and country greats battling each other. If you compare that Australia, even the recent winning sides of NZ, RSA look like teletubbies. 

They are best Aussies bowling attack,   is it better than 1980 WI teams that is debatable.

[kosingh]

Not many in the history of cricket bowl a better first over than Starc. 

[MechEng]

12 hours ago, Gollum said:

Only Australia pushes us to be our best versions, both in men's and women's cricket. Compare the quality of cricket in Ind-Aus matches to Ind vs RSA/NZ/Eng/Pak/SL, and there is a big difference. 

 

Even in recent women's WC, the final against RSA didn't feel like a high stakes match compared to the SF. Dare I say, the quality of cricket wasn't that high while our SF has been rated by neutral experts as the greatest ever women's match of all time. Even in our 2007 WT20, 2011 WC, 2024 WT20, 2025 CT triumphs, it was always Ind vs Aus that was game of the tournament and our toughest test. 

 

Just that 2 great rivals push themselves to become their best versions possible, Ind and Aus is that duo in cricket for the last 2 decades or so. 

 

Even though RSA, NZ won in India in last 2 seasons, it feels unfair that 2017 Australia lost. Compared to these chumps, Aussies played exceptional cricket and Smith touched the greatest peak of batting imaginable....just that India managed to find a higher gear when pushed to the brink. 

 

I think we must credit this to the ATG Aussie side under Waugh. Before him, we never played our best cricket against Australia, only against Pakistan to some extent where even underdogs like Rajesh Chauhan would rise to the occasion and deliver.

 

BG trophy 2001 changed everything and made us believe that our batsmen are good enough to score runs against an attack as good as Australia, and you should not ignore the Indian mindset of doing extra preparation for tougher tests (like how we do for UPSC etc.)

 

Kohli's side from 2017 would have hammered both recent NZ and SA sides at home, forget peak Ashwin and Jadeja, they wouldn't be able to handle Umesh's reverse swing at that time. 

[Gollum]

11 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

I think we must credit this to the ATG Aussie side under Waugh. Before him, we never played our best cricket against Australia, only against Pakistan to some extent where even underdogs like Rajesh Chauhan would rise to the occasion and deliver.

 

BG trophy 2001 changed everything and made us believe that our batsmen are good enough to score runs against an attack as good as Australia, and you should not ignore the Indian mindset of doing extra preparation for tougher tests (like how we do for UPSC etc.)

 

Kohli's side from 2017 would have hammered both recent NZ and SA sides at home, forget peak Ashwin and Jadeja, they wouldn't be able to handle Umesh's reverse swing at that time. 

Agree with most of your post. 

 

Just one disagreement, we never played our best cricket against Pakistanis before 2001. Granted they were a better side historically, but we also mentally folded too often against them...86 Bengaluru, 99 Chennai and Calcutta, all lost from winning positions. Also in ODIs where they used to hammer us even in India, I think the H2H was 25-55 or something lopsided like that. When Imran was captain, we never won a single test against them while they even won a series in India, in ODIs it was 19-3 in favor of Pak, absolute crushing domination. In 2000, they beat us 3-1 in Aus and won some 8 consecutive games against us spread across two tri-series in India and Sharjah.  

 

2003 Centurion and 2004 tour to Pak changed the tide. Have to give a lot of credit to Sehwag for change in psychology in those matches, he really rattled them. 

Edited December 8, 2025 by Gollum

[MechEng]

15 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Agree with most of your post. 

 

Just one disagreement, we never played our best cricket against Pakistanis before 2001. Granted they were a better side historically, but we also mentally folded too often against them...86 Bengaluru, 99 Chennai and Calcutta, all lost from winning positions. Also in ODIs where they used to hammer us even in India, I think the H2H was 25-55 or something lopsided like that. When Imran was captain, we never won a single test against them while they even won a series in India, in ODIs it was 19-3 in favor of Pak, absolute crushing domination. In 2000, they beat us 3-1 in Aus and won some 8 consecutive games against us spread across two tri-series in India and Sharjah.  

 

2003 Centurion and 2004 tour to Pak changed the tide. Have to give a lot of credit to Sehwag for change in psychology in those matches, he really rattled them. 

 

Agreed, I was pointing more towards few high stake games or pressure moments. Granted we had to experience Sharjah 86, but then we also had Rajesh Chauhan hitting six off Saqlain at Karachi in the last over.

 

Ajay Jadeja hitting 22 runs off Waqar Younis who was the fastest bowler in the world at that time and Venky Prasad flattening Aamer Sohail's off stump too come to my mind.

 

Edit: 1999 World Cup too, where we lost to Zim but still managed a win against Pak which arguably had assembled their strongest ODI unit ever.

 

Edited December 8, 2025 by MechEng

[Suhaan]

11 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

with Lee an almost ATG.

 

Lee wasn't red ball ATG, he was ,with white ball rather

[Suhaan]

On 12/6/2025 at 11:41 PM, Lord said:

 

Whatever he has been able to stamp his authority in absence of Josh,Cummins and now Lyon

 

Can't see many Indian bowlers doing that

Sir Sirajudaullah also stood tall against Bazballers , he's also Sir Top Dog

[Lord]

27 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Sir Sirajudaullah also stood tall against Bazballers , he's also Sir Top Dog

 

Prasidh supported him in Oval Test. Also Akashdeep was chief destroyer in Birmingham