Gurnoor Brar

[tapandrun]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Because he is workhorse cum impact bowler. If any of our bowlers bowled 5 tests in a row like him they would have been in NCA. I have seen Rabada consistently hitting 125 to 130 k in tests in some phases. In Test he doesn't strive for 150ks.

Radaba dropped pace and he has gained pace back . 

 

Yes,, no one can bowl 140+ kmph every session but at the start of test or coming back for fresh spell bowler need to try to push a bit.

 

Saw this bhumrah too he was trying to swing the ball in test with lower pace, may be trying wobble seam or something. but this is becoming a thing a Ind bowlers.

[vvvslaxman]

58 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Radaba dropped pace and he has gained pace back . 

 

Yes,, no one can bowl 140+ kmph every session but at the start of test or coming back for fresh spell bowler need to try to push a bit.

 

Saw this bhumrah too he was trying to swing the ball in test with lower pace, may be trying wobble seam or something. but this is becoming a thing a Ind bowlers.

 

I don't think in Tests it matters how fast you start with. Your job is to find the edge.   At Newlands Bumrah was clocking 88mph. Siraj was bowling at 81 mph. He finished with 6 for 15. Siraj never starts with 140k or anythign like that.  He bowled 8 or 9 overs on the trot. I don't think most of our current bowlers have the bowling stamina like Siraj. When on song it is difficult to get the ball from him.

[express bowling]

 

■■    @rkt.india posted this video below earlier in this thread.   Gurnoor's 10 wicket haul for India A a month back on a flat deck when no other pacer from either side could get even 2 wickets in the match.

 

 

 

 

Look at the different and potent delivery types  ....

 

1 )  Top of off stump directed slanting / indipping balls 

 

2 )  Excellent channel balls moving away with bounce. And very close to the off stump.

 

3 )  Vicious Bumpers / rising balls at the body. 

 

4 )  Inipping yorkers .... 2 of them got wickets.

 

 

■■  And I had posted the video below in another thread. Gurnoor bowling vs Afghanistan on Indian pitches.

 

 

 

 

 

Again look at the different and potent delivery types ....

 

1 ) Steep, hostile bounce at 145 k+, getting wickets, hitting batters on the head / body and scaring them too.

 

2 )  Indipping yorkers getting 2 wickets. One was at 148 kph.

 

3 )  Stump directed quick balls getting 2 wickets.

 

 

■■   His first international wicket.

 

1 )  Outswing with bounce at 146 kph 

 

https://www.bcci.tv/videos/s-off-the-mark-maiden-odi-wicket-for-gurnoor-brar-7btz87

 

 

Apart from Bumrah, have we seen any Indian pacer combining accurate and quick .... away going channel balls with bounce .... indipping stump directed balls .... vicious bumpers .... indipping yorkers .... seamlessly and regularly  like Gurnoor is doing. !!

 

It's not just pace and bounce but objective pace and bounce used in different potent delivery types.

 

It would be unfortunate if his test debut is delayed !

 

Even if he has an ordinary first test, he needs to be backed. 

 

 

Edited August 20 by express bowling

[express bowling]

 

Dismisses and floors Harry Brook with a vicious lifter.

 

 

 

 

[Lord]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Dismisses and floors Harry Brook with a vicious lifter.

 

 

 

 

The guy is built for Test cricket 

 

Need to induct him soon. Can be difference maker in NZ

[cricspirit]

Needs to play all tests right now. End.

 

[express bowling]

41 minutes ago, cricspirit said:

Needs to play all tests right now. End.

 

 

 

I often wonder what stops these kinds of bowlers from playing.

 

One could understand if we had peak Bumrah and Shami ( 2018 to 2022 )  occupying the 2 pacers' slots.

 

But our 2 pacers both average around 30.

[putrevus]

18 hours ago, Lord said:

The guy is built for Test cricket 

 

Need to induct him soon. Can be difference maker in NZ

If he is buiilt for test cricket, why would he pick up first his first ten wicket haul against a putrid SL A team and none in Ranji trophy.He is not 19 or 20.Remove that ten wicket haul his FC avg shoots up to 28 plus.

 

Prasidh has better avg in FC than this guy.

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

If he is buiilt for test cricket, why would he pick up first his first ten wicket haul against a putrid SL A team and none in Ranji trophy.He is not 19 or 20.Remove that ten wicket haul his FC avg shoots up to 28 plus.

 

Prasidh has better avg in FC than this guy.

 

 

 

His initial 4 Tests he had only 5 wkts.

He was playing intermittently as Punjab was playing Baltej Singh & Sid Kaul over him.

 

One he started playing regularly, wickets came in through.

[putrevus]

42 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

His initial 4 Tests he had only 5 wkts.

He was playing intermittently as Punjab was playing Baltej Singh & Sid Kaul over him.

 

One he started playing regularly, wickets came in through.

I am not taking about Prasidh's test career.Prasidh is a useless bowler but he still has better FC figures than this guy.

 

Question is what basis are you dropping either Siraj or Prasidh. They were hardly needed in last test.If they liked this guy more they would have played him in first test itself.

 

I am not against giving this guy a chance but you don't build teams by chopping and changing for no reason.Can they convince either of them to sit out for second test.Similarly, I would not drop Kuldeep for his lack of wickets in first test.

 

You have to give players chance to fail too. Kuldeep has avg of 23, you don't kick players of that caliber out based on one bad test.

Edited August 21 by putrevus

[singhvivek141]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I am not taking about Prasidh's test career.Prasidh is a useless bowler but he still has better FC figures than this guy.

 

Question is what basis are you dropping either Siraj or Prasidh. They were hardly needed in last test.If they liked this guy more they would have played him in first test itself.

 

I am not against giving this guy a chance but you don't build teams by chopping and changing for no reason.Can they convince either of them to sit out for second test.Similarly, I would not drop Kuldeep for his lack of wickets in first test.

 

You have to give players chance to fail too. Kuldeep has avg of 23, you don't kick players of that caliber out based on one bad test.

 

Gurnoor can only be played now

1. If the pitch is pacer friendly 

2. If they decide to rest Siraj or Prasidh

 

Kuldeep has to show some energy. He is looking tired and disinterested. As if he is already a 50 y.o. suffering with layoff and still have to pay his home loan EMI and the children's school fee.

 

Hope everything is fine in his personal life.

Edited August 21 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Gurnoor can only be played now

1. If the pitch is pacer friendly 

2. If they decide to rest Siraj or Prasidh

 

Kuldeep has to show some energy. He is looking tired and disinterested. As if he is already a 50 y.o. suffering with layoff and still have to pay his home loan EMI and the children's school fee.

Siraj should be the one who should  be rested, his place is secured for NZ series.So captain can ask him to sit out.

 

Captain has to show more faith in Kuldeep, motivating players to give their best is also job of captain and coach.

 

Kuldeep also has to show more to the captain. Let us see how it pans out.

 

 

[express bowling]

51 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

His initial 4 Tests he had only 5 wkts.

He was playing intermittently as Punjab was playing Baltej Singh & Sid Kaul over him.

 

One he started playing regularly, wickets came in through.

 

Bro, you mean initial 4 Ranji matches I guess. 

 

It's a perennial problem in most state sides except Delhi, Bengal, Rajasthan and Kerala. 

 

They prefer all the established medium pacers available and fast bowlers are picked only intermittently if any medium pacer is unavailable.

 

Prasidh had to sit out for Aravind, Mithun, Vinay for years despite having a low FC average.

 

Gurnoor was sporadically picked with Kaul, Baltej etc. getting preference. 

 

So on and so forth. 

 

And this leads to Fast bowlers not gaining FC experience and skills when they are young.

 

BCCI needs to address this issue. 

 

 

[Sgattick10]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Bro, you mean initial 4 Ranji matches I guess. 

 

It's a perennial problem in most state sides except Delhi, Bengal, Rajasthan and Kerala. 

 

They prefer all the established medium pacers available and fast bowlers are picked only intermittently if any medium pacer is unavailable.

 

Prasidh had to sit out for Aravind, Mithun, Vinay for years despite having a low FC average.

 

Gurnoor was sporadically picked with Kaul, Baltej etc. getting preference. 

 

So on and so forth. 

 

And this leads to Fast bowlers not gaining FC experience and skills when they are young.

 

BCCI needs to address this issue. 

 

 

Can these young fast bowlers who has potential but has to sit out in fc matches due to seniority bias go play and play County cricket? I am not aware of the process, is it only big names that are preferred? If not then they can try there to get good experience and bowl long spells to be in rhythm. 

[putrevus]

States are there to win matches in Ranjis.People were moaning and whining when Vinay Kumar was prefered over Prasidh Krishna.Vinay Kumar was winning everything for his team both as a bowler and captain.

 

Fast bowlers are allowed to pick up wickets too.No state coach is an idiot to prefer a trundler to fast bowler who is picking up wickets. If they are still picking trundler over fast bowler then they should be sacked.

 

Umran Malik is prime example, he was fast tracked everywhere but ultimately failed to make even impact.Ishant Sharma was bowling long spells in Ranjis even before he made his debut.

 

If these fast bowlers are unable to even displace trundlers in their teams , how will do well in international cricket.

 

Are they being sidelined by captains and coaches due to perceptions of them being wayward.

 

Plus now they have transfers too.Guy like Ashok Sharma's first job is to play all domestic matches  if he cannot play for Rajasthan, he needs to go somewhere else where he can play all matches in all formats.

 

Mayank Yadav is another guy who needs matches under his belt.Is he playing Duleep trophy.When Shami could play domestic cricket , why can't these guys play most matches.

[singhvivek141]

38 minutes ago, putrevus said:

States are there to win matches in Ranjis.People were moaning and whining when Vinay Kumar was prefered over Prasidh Krishna.Vinay Kumar was winning everything for his team both as a bowler and captain.

 

Fast bowlers are allowed to pick up wickets too.No state coach is an idiot to prefer a trundler to fast bowler who is picking up wickets. If they are still picking trundler over fast bowler then they should be sacked.

 

Umran Malik is prime example, he was fast tracked everywhere but ultimately failed to make even impact.Ishant Sharma was bowling long spells in Ranjis even before he made his debut.

 

If these fast bowlers are unable to even displace trundlers in their teams , how will do well in international cricket.

 

Are they being sidelined by captains and coaches due to perceptions of them being wayward.

 

Plus now they have transfers too.Guy like Ashok Sharma's first job is to play all domestic matches  if he cannot play for Rajasthan, he needs to go somewhere else where he can play all matches in all formats.

 

Mayank Yadav is another guy who needs matches under his belt.Is he playing Duleep trophy.When Shami could play domestic cricket , why can't these guys play most matches.

 

You hit the nail on the root cause of the problem.

 

Its the damn pitches, the pitches which grips and stroke making becomes tough against the bowlers who bowl medium pace.

 

For the faster ones, well, it sits right at the sweet spot where batters can time the bowl. Plus as the pitches dont have bounce, even a delivery banged midway just barely rises to the waist.

Same reason that likes of Vikram Rathour avg 50 in FC but turned out a joke in internationals.

 

What we need is better pitches, damn Australian style pitches. Where bowl will swing for first 20 overs, then a relatively easier track for next 40 overs where bounce holds key and later the assistance to reverse. Where spinners will have to impart revs on the ball to generate spin instead of just releasing it gently.

 

Vinay Kumar, Jaydev Unadkut...both ruled the domestics. Yet they made a mockery of Indian pace bowling when they represented India in the national stage. 

Edited August 21 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

You hit the nail on the root cause of the problem.

 

Its the damn pitches, the pitches which grips and stroke making becomes tough against the bowlers who bowl medium pace.

 

For the faster ones, well, it sits right at the sweet spot where batters can time the bowl. Plus as the pitches dont have bounce, even a delivery banged midway just barely rises to the waist.

Same reason that likes of Vikram Rathour avg 50 in FC but turned out a joke in internationals.

 

What we need is better pitches, damn Australian style pitches. Where bowl will swing for first 20 overs, then a relatively easier track for next 40 overs where bounce holds key and later the assistance to reverse. Where spinners will have to impart revs on the ball to generate spin instead of just releasing it gently.

 

Vinay Kumar, Jaydev Unadkut...both ruled the domestics. Yet they made a mockery of Indian pace bowling when they represented India in the national stage. 

Maybe they should experiment with Kookaburra ball.SG ball with hits pronounced seam is making both spin and fast bowlers equally lazy.

 

They should stop making  bunsen burners.

Edited August 21 by putrevus

[Lord]

52 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

You hit the nail on the root cause of the problem.

 

Its the damn pitches, the pitches which grips and stroke making becomes tough against the bowlers who bowl medium pace.

 

For the faster ones, well, it sits right at the sweet spot where batters can time the bowl. Plus as the pitches dont have bounce, even a delivery banged midway just barely rises to the waist.

Same reason that likes of Vikram Rathour avg 50 in FC but turned out a joke in internationals.

 

What we need is better pitches, damn Australian style pitches. Where bowl will swing for first 20 overs, then a relatively easier track for next 40 overs where bounce holds key and later the assistance to reverse. Where spinners will have to impart revs on the ball to generate spin instead of just releasing it gently.

 

Vinay Kumar, Jaydev Unadkut...both ruled the domestics. Yet they made a mockery of Indian pace bowling when they represented India in the national stage. 

Only Mumbai and Dharamsala are true bouncy pitches 

 

This is where A tours and county cricket can help these pacers. Even Ishant improved massively after that

[vvvslaxman]

U19 is the breeding ground for fast bowling. Last few seasons it has been a disappointment except Tyagi who also took nearly 6 years to plya full season of IPL.  Mavi, Nagarkoti all flattered to deceive. Last time Mavi played for India he was bowling at the pace of Renukha singh thakur. Sushant is showing some improvement in recent times.  2022 Hangarkekar after age fraud controversy is still not being consistently available. 2024 batch Limbani is an unfinished article. 2026 batch Deepsh is showing a lot of promise. 

 

State team selection has a lot of politics. But over the last few years IPL solved all the problems. Now genuine fast bowlers instantly gets noticed and their stock value goes up in one match like it did for Umran and Mayank. It is upto players to use that as a ladder to climb up. It is much more straight forward than in the bygone era.  Selections are not  made using first class or LIst A. If only they had done SKY would have never played a single Test match or even ODi for that matter. Even guys like Sundar, Nattu, Thakur came through T20.  Bumrah had decent first class numbers. But his main selection came through Limited overs. 

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, Lord said:

Only Mumbai and Dharamsala are true bouncy pitches 

 

This is where A tours and county cricket can help these pacers. Even Ishant improved massively after that

It depends on red soil or black soil. Wankhede canbe bouncy. Each stadium has several pitches. CHepauk has 8 or 9 pitches. SOme bounce a litlte more.  Chinnaswamy can also be bouncy. But that only helps batsmen. Eden Gardens is also known to assist swing bowlers.  To be fair India has the most varied conditions. AUstralian pitches but for last tour of India are generally flat.  Not everyone bounces like Perth. Most Indian batsmen bat better in Australia than in India in the last 10 years.