sarcastic Posted May 31 Posted May 31 The title says it all. There is lot of hype and hoopla surrounding the oldies being part of the squad and taking the talented youngster's places. The test/ODI vice captain who is still in his mid-late 20s just threw the towel in the all important final. Whereas the "Oldie" King mastered the chase to take his team to second consecutive title. Give respect to the wise and dependable Oldies. Do away with this fascination for Youngsters just because they have "tailunt".
vvvslaxman Posted May 31 Posted May 31 I am no fan of some of the methods of Gill. We have seen KOhli captaining RCB and looking like a clueless money every single time. Even at his worst Gill is likely to be a better LOI captain than Kohli. Ultimate_Game and velu 1 1
zen Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) And, in the next game, if Kohli fails and Gill succeeds, someone will start a thread on Gill. What the point? Edited May 31 by zen nevada, tapandrun and Ultimate_Game 3
Ultimate_Game Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 9 minutes ago, sarcastic said: The title says it all. There is lot of hype and hoopla surrounding the oldies being part of the squad and taking the talented youngster's places. The test/ODI vice captain who is still in his mid-late 20s just threw the towel in the all important final. Whereas the "Oldie" King mastered the chase to take his team to second consecutive title. Give respect to the wise and dependable Oldies. Do away with this fascination for Youngsters just because they have "tailunt". Not a like for like comparison. We've all seen that Kohli himself wasn't able to handle captaincy and never won anything either with India or with RCB. Gill as captain hasn't done that badly. Hopefully he has learned his lesson and builds a more well-rounded team with batting depth, a lesson which "King" Kohli couldn't learn throughout his career. And an even worse take on youngsters. Our youngsters have already shown what they can do during the recent WT20, which is what counts and is way higher than IPL. Edited May 31 by Ultimate_Game
putrevus Posted May 31 Posted May 31 Where did Gill throw in the towel.He did lot better as a captain than Rohit did against Australia defending subpar total.
tapandrun Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) Even if GIll had won this IPL and out scored kolhi in this game or IPL overall does not mean anything. Kolhi has done it in intnls and Gill is still to play any innings of significance though just 1 innings does not define the whole career. There is no need to compare them.. Edited May 31 by tapandrun Ultimate_Game 1
sarcastic Posted May 31 Author Posted May 31 People are mistaking this thread as "Captain Kohli" vs "Captain Gill". No, it is not about captaincy at all. It is the batsman Kohli vs batsman Gill that we are comparing. The point is Gill did zilch in all important final (like he did most of the finals/knockouts except may be few IPLs) but Kohli consistently delivers.
maniac Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) Gill captained well and dare I say as captain he is maybe one level below as Kohli the captain at the moment with potential to take over him for sure . Currently leagues below Rohit, Dhoni, Gambhir. however as a batsman it’s a no contest. Gill is a very good talent for sure but currently I would say he is at the same level as Iyer, Jaiswal and KL Rahul as a good- premium talent.However Kohli is “King” Kohli probably the most impactful and match winning white ball batsman of all time or definitely in the debate for it, Edited May 31 by maniac tapandrun 1
Ultimate_Game Posted May 31 Posted May 31 1 minute ago, sarcastic said: People are mistaking this thread as "Captain Kohli" vs "Captain Gill". No, it is not about captaincy at all. It is the batsman Kohli vs batsman Gill that we are comparing. The point is Gill did zilch in all important final (like he did most of the finals/knockouts except may be few IPLs) but Kohli consistently delivers. As a batter Gill is nowhere near Kohli. But I do hope that Gill delivers at the clutch in an ICC tourney, hopefully the next ODI WC If you can't deliver in ICC tourneys, especially in knockouts, then nothing matters. You can score loads of runs but without ICC tourneys and performances in big matches, it's all meaningless. That's why Samson's stock rose so high after the recent WT20 coz he delivered in 3 back to back knockout matches. tapandrun, AKane and rollingstoned 3
putrevus Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) So the same bastman has to score runs every match, Gill scored 100 to get his team to finals where as Kohli had so much help in RCB getting to finals. Gill the batsman is not in same stratosphere as a batsman as Kohli.There is no shame in that either.Kohli is GOAT in whiteball cricket. Gill has two IPL play off 100s, I don't think anyone has two like Gill.Gill is going to be just fine, he has to take next step in ICC tournaments, having guy like Kohli on his side will only help him. Edited May 31 by putrevus tapandrun and rollingstoned 2
maniac Posted May 31 Posted May 31 1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said: As a batter Gill is nowhere near Kohli. But I do hope that Gill delivers at the clutch in an ICC tourney, hopefully the next ODI WC If you can't deliver in ICC tourneys, especially in knockouts, then nothing matters. You can score loads of runs but without ICC tourneys and performances in big matches, it's all meaningless. That's why Samson's stock rose so high after the recent WT20 coz he delivered in 3 back to back knockout matches. so far Gill has failed in 2 IPL finals, wtc final, wc final, ct final and Asia cup final :( rollingstoned and Ultimate_Game 2
zen Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 2 minutes ago, maniac said: so far Gill has failed in 2 IPL finals, wtc final, wc final, ct final and Asia cup final :( Gill did well in 2022 final. And also in playoffs - has two 100s in knock out games - one against MI in 2023 and one against RR in 2026. To me it appears as if people are not looking at the picture but only parts of it that validate their theories. PS let’s not forget even Tendulkar has failed in both 2003 and 2011 finals. Edited May 31 by zen
maniac Posted May 31 Posted May 31 Just now, zen said: Gill did well in 2022 final. And also in playoffs - has two 100s in knock out games - one against MI in 2023 and one against RR in 2026. To me it appears as if people are not looking at the picture but only parts of it that validate their theories. didn’t you nitpick about Sachin in the past with the same theory?
zen Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 5 minutes ago, maniac said: didn’t you nitpick about Sachin in the past with the same theory? I may have when comparing him with other greats as such small margins separate great players in a discussion about greats. Gill is just 26, not an established great, and has tons of opportunities ahead of him. No one probably said such things when Sachin was 26 Edited May 31 by zen
Ultimate_Game Posted May 31 Posted May 31 10 minutes ago, maniac said: so far Gill has failed in 2 IPL finals, wtc final, wc final, ct final and Asia cup final :( I don't really care about IPL finals. But Gill has been MIA so far in intls. If he fails in the next ODI WC, I wouldn't even want to have him in the team as a player, forget as a captain. That's why want clutch performers like Ishan, Pandya, Axar in the team coz these players somehow manage to find a way in pressure matches. And in T20s you can also add names like Dube, Tilak and Krunal. Selectors need to identify players who raise their games in big matches else we'll struggle. I've no faith in Gill and KL doing so. Rohit is too old and unfit and Kohli would be nearing 40 as well. I'm seriously worried about our WC chances and we have options! Get in Sooryavanshi to play the Rohit role. Get in Ishan as wk. Do away with Sundar and Jadeja and play Axar in their place. maniac 1
cricketfan28 Posted May 31 Posted May 31 Gill can be the next king has the potential, but vaib is a threat
Ultimate_Game Posted May 31 Posted May 31 19 minutes ago, cricketfan28 said: Gill can be the next king has the potential, but vaib is a threat Sooryavanshi is the Emperor who'll rule over Kings! Need to get him in against Afg at home. Give him an easy debut series so he has more chances to succeed.
maniac Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said: I don't really care about IPL finals. But Gill has been MIA so far in intls. If he fails in the next ODI WC, I wouldn't even want to have him in the team as a player, forget as a captain. That's why want clutch performers like Ishan, Pandya, Axar in the team coz these players somehow manage to find a way in pressure matches. And in T20s you can also add names like Dube, Tilak and Krunal. Selectors need to identify players who raise their games in big matches else we'll struggle. I've no faith in Gill and KL doing so. Rohit is too old and unfit and Kohli would be nearing 40 as well. I'm seriously worried about our WC chances and we have options! Get in Sooryavanshi to play the Rohit role. Get in Ishan as wk. Do away with Sundar and Jadeja and play Axar in their place. I don’t care about IPL scores either, in fact don’t even remember 99% of IPL games leave alone such stats. Someone included that so looked like a good collective stat. Gill’s failed in U-19 but we won so all good but even then felt like we found the next choker maharathi, WC 2023 was a collective failure CT was so one sided that I don’t even remember he failed but he failed. However won’t forgive him for Asia cup final. In the end we won so all is well. That would have been an epic beizzati. 150 odd was right in Gill’s alley and I expected him to anchor us to win. Abhishek is a high risk player so kinda benefit of doubt, Shoonya haven’t forgiven him since that day and Samson redeemed himself in WT20 but had given up on him as well. Appreciate Tilak forever for that knock and Gill needs to something huge to redeem himself à la Samson. Edited May 31 by maniac Ultimate_Game 1
Ultimate_Game Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 3 hours ago, maniac said: I don’t care about IPL scores either, in fact don’t even remember 99% of IPL games leave alone such stats. Someone included that so looked like a good collective stat. Gill’s failed in U-19 but we won so all good but even then felt like we found the next choker maharathi, WC 2023 was a collective failure CT was so one sided that I don’t even remember he failed but he failed. However won’t forgive him for Asia cup final. In the end we won so all is well. That would have been an epic beizzati. 150 odd was right in Gill’s alley and I expected him to anchor us to win. Abhishek is a high risk player so kinda benefit of doubt, Shoonya haven’t forgiven him since that day and Samson redeemed himself in WT20 but had given up on him as well. Appreciate Tilak forever for that knock and Gill needs to something huge to redeem himself à la Samson. We have seen enough to know that Gill and SKY are not big match players. There're some who shrink under the limelight and there're those who raise their games. Likes of Ishan, Tilak (in T20), Dube, Axar, Pandya step up. That's why I put more emphasis on who can handle pressure and has the temperament for a fight. That's the reason I like Pandya bros. Most people hate their attitude and they have a knack of rubbing people the wrong way but nobody will blame them for not showing up under pressure. Ishan is just like that. Axar and surprisingly Dube have done the same. We've enough data points and numbers to see who shows up in those crunch moments and I would have those players in the team. Take a look at our recent WT20 team... Abhishek - Semi-clutch (Blow hot, blow cold but impactful) Samson - Clutch Ishan - Extremely clutch (WT20 and that Asia Cup match against Pak where he saved India from 40/4) SKY - Softie and can't handle pressure Axar - Clutch Pandya - Extremely clutch (India has never lost to Aus in ICC tourneys with Pandya in the team) Tilak - Clutch Dube - Clutch Super-Max (if it's a big match, send in Dube) Arshdeep - Semi-Clutch (won us the 2024 WT20 but can be taken apart) Bumrah - Clutch (won us 2 WT20 tourneys) Varun C - Semi-clutch (picked wkts in both CT and WT20) The reason we won so easily was coz we had so many clutch players. Now compare our earlier teams. We had players like Chahal, Kuldeep, Siraj (in white-ball), KL Rahul who imploded mentally. That's the reason I'm not sold on Kartik Tyagi as he falls to pieces when he's hit and starts bowling full tosses and no-balls. And not a big fan of mentally fragile Kuldeep or KL. For teams to win tourneys you need players who can handle pressure and perform. Talent is one thing but performing under pressure is the key. I would pick players like Ishan or Dube over KL Rahul, or pick Krunal over Chahal and Kuldeep any day. Edited May 31 by Ultimate_Game NameGoesHere and maniac 1 1
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