Is Ashwin the genuine all rounder we are looking for?

[Tillu]

On 11/25/2011 at 11:34 AM, Cricket Tragic said:

So we need tall batsmen and bowlers with big butts. I suggest Kim Kardashian as our opening bowler. That should atleast bring the crowds back to test cricket.

 

[Majestic]

Lol he is a home track bully+ minnow basher. That's it 

Edited September 23, 2024 by Majestic

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Lol he is a home track bully+ minnow basher. That's it 

Yes yes, Ashwin bad saar. Imran Khan greatest phaast bowler saar, Pakistan greatest team saar. 

[vvvslaxman]

wow this thread is 13 years old. 

[Majestic]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

Yes yes, Ashwin bad saar. Imran Khan greatest phaast bowler saar, Pakistan greatest team saar. 

Spot on.

 

Against major test nations away from home( West Indies, New Zealand, Australia, England and India), Imran has 184 wickets in 47 test at average of 26.

 

Against major test nations away from home( SENAP),Ashwin has 71 wickets in 25 tests at average of 39.

 

The gulf is massive.

[vvvslaxman]

52 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Spot on.

 

Against major test nations away from home( West Indies, New Zealand, Australia, England and India), Imran has 184 wickets in 47 test at average of 26.

 

Against major test nations away from home( SENAP),Ashwin has 71 wickets in 25 tests at average of 39.

 

The gulf is massive.

 

On is a bottle cap user with massive home umpiring advantage. Other one is not.  Imran khan in modern era would be averaging 35 or something

[Majestic]

14 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

On is a bottle cap user with massive home umpiring advantage. Other one is not.  Imran khan in modern era would be averaging 35 or something

Those are his away averages we are discussing. And most player do better at home than away. So, he is an all conditions Par Cummins level fast bowler and a Shakib level batsman.

Edited September 24, 2024 by Majestic

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Those are his away averages we are discussing. And most player do better at home than away. So, he is an all conditions Par Cummins level fast bowler and a Shakib level batsman.

 

What away averages. It is nonsense talking about away average when he is made to sit out 6 tests in a row in England. Played only one test in NZ. That is not his faul is it?  Imran khan is a fraud.

[singhvivek141]

40 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

On is a bottle cap user with massive home umpiring advantage. Other one is not.  Imran khan in modern era would be averaging 35 or something

Spot on.

All these Waqar's & Imran's would easily be averaging 5-7 higher than their current average (maybe more). Both are inferior to Shami who averages 27.

 

Even for Wasim, no matter what they say would still average around 25-26 and not current 23. He was skillful but nowhere around Bumrah.

Edited September 24, 2024 by singhvivek141

[Suhaan]

27 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

What away averages. It is nonsense talking about away average when he is made to sit out 6 tests in a row in England. Played only one test in NZ. That is not his faul is it?  Imran khan is a fraud.

Ashwin ,isnt irreplaceable overseas

He truly is home GOAT but overseas his average to below average infact none of the Indian spinners before him have been better

There is no shame to admit,he's our biggest weapon alongwith Jadeja to boast such bulldozing home record

Noone is great without stellar home record

Edited September 24, 2024 by Suhaan

[Gollum]

23 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Ashwin ,isnt irreplaceable overseas

He truly is home GOAT but overseas his average to below average infact none of the Indian spinners before him have been better

There is no shame to admit,he's our biggest weapon alongwith Jadeja to boast such bulldozing home record

Noone is great without stellar home record

Agree but no need to overhype Pak cheats.

Edited September 24, 2024 by Gollum

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Those are his away averages we are discussing. And most player do better at home than away. So, he is an all conditions Par Cummins level fast bowler and a Shakib level batsman.

No, that Pook is a Srinath level bowler and sasta version of Jadeja with the bat. And Pak is a minnow team who cheated their way before getting busted.

[Suhaan]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Agree but no need to overhype Pak cheats.

Who hypes them?i despise those thugs

I consider mentioning them with Ashwin as pure disrespect to legend Ashwin

Edited September 24, 2024 by Suhaan

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

What away averages. It is nonsense talking about away average when he is made to sit out 6 tests in a row in England. Played only one test in NZ. That is not his faul is it?  Imran khan is a fraud.

He averages 39 with bowl and 23 with bat hence made to sit out. Shardul averaged under 30 so better decision by legendary captain Kohli who has some 40 test wins to his name.

[vvvslaxman]

17 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Ashwin ,isnt irreplaceable overseas

He truly is home GOAT but overseas his average to below average infact none of the Indian spinners before him have been better

There is no shame to admit,he's our biggest weapon alongwith Jadeja to boast such bulldozing home record

Noone is great without stellar home record

 

The problem is he missed more than 50% of the overseas matches because of the 4 fast bowler strategy. In SA invariably we are greeted with seamer friendly surfaces.  If he has been a regular his numbers would have been far better. But having half decent number there is useless. That is good only for stats. At the end of the day India's idea of going in with 4 seamers helped us win more matches. Hence they had to sit him out.They should have played him selectively not totally abandoned him. They should have dropped him from 2021 WTC final. But included him in 2023 WTC final given that oval is the closest to a subcontinent pitch. They did the opposite. He saved a Test. Played a part in MCG win taking 5 wickets.  

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, Majestic said:

He averages 39 with bowl and 23 with bat hence made to sit out. Shardul averaged under 30 so better decision by legendary captain Kohli who has some 40 test wins to his name.

 

You pick players based on pitch. Not stat. Also opposition. He has got the better of australia home and away. That is an added bonus. Btw It was Rohit that omitted him from Oval not Kohli who included him in the first WTC final. He was the highest wicket taker despite him being a wrong selection.

Edited September 24, 2024 by vvvslaxman

[R!TTER]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

The problem is he missed more than 50% of the overseas matches because of the 4 fast bowler strategy.

While true that in some games we wasted the extra bowler spot, one reason we didn't go with him is his batting average; don't bring up his overall stats, especially those hundreds against WI, because he has averaged 13 since 2020 away in S.E.N.A. Another reason is his bowling has also gone down; he was outbowled by Bhai in 4th test Eng 2018 and he did nothing in SA 2021 (22?) either! His batting is highly overrated away; take that Sydney innings out, and you'll struggle to name another good one against strong teams 

Edited September 24, 2024 by R!TTER

[Tillu]

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

While true that in some games we wasted the extra bowler spot, one reason we didn't go with him is his batting average; don't bring up his overall stats, especially those hundreds against WI, because he has averaged 13 since 2020 away in S.E.N.A. Another reason is his bowling has also gone down; he was outbowled by Bhai in 4th test Eng 2018 and he did nothing in SA 2021 (22?) either! His batting is highly overrated away; take that Sydney innings out, and you'll struggle to name another good one against strong teams 

 

It was a case of English batsmen outbatting us. Moeen Bhai has poor averages against most teams except India. 

[vvvslaxman]

If we are going to sit out players based on performance in sporadic opportunities entire top order should be dropped for certain tours. Invariably bowlers got impacted.