Modi sarkar economic reforms/governance performance thread

[velu]

INR falling against USD is because of USD strengthening against all   other currencies..

INR doing well against every other currency ..

 

but again BJP bullied congress  when INR was falling against USD earlier  

[Tibarn]

 

Useless Milords

[Moochad]

USD appreciating vs all main currencies

[Mariyam]

@Tibarn

 

The construction ban has been lifted in Maharashtra and Uttarakhand.

 

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumbai-relief-for-builders-homebuyers-as-apex-court-lifts-ban-on-construction-5342228/

 

I know where you are coming from, but in this case a suo moto was due. There are many studies highlighting absolute disregard for any kind of treatment of construction waste. This ban-unban drama will actually shake the State Governments into formulating a meaningful waste management policy. 

 

The builders are generally extremely lackadaisical about the way they go about construction. Deadlines are deferred. This inspite of the RERA. For instance, there are class action suits against construction companies, where a plot has been dug up for some construction work and left at that state for months. It ends up being some kind of a breeding ground for dengue carrying mosquitoes due to all the stagnant water. And a lot of people fall sick, and end up wasting a lot of man hours. This had happened to scores of mid to upper management employees of Patni computers, who were all accommodated in a new construction in Wadala, surrounded by many more constructions. Patni decided to move court.

 

You are being to harsh on the milords here. 

[Moochad]

 

A good exposition on Modinomics by Harsh Gupta

Edited September 14, 2018 by Moochad

[Tibarn]

On 9/14/2018 at 5:18 PM, Moochad said:

 

A good exposition on Modinomics by Harsh Gupta

I don't agree with some parts, but the thing I disagree with the most is the idea that we will succeed regardless. The idea that if we elect some khichdi government or some government led by goofballs who advocate private sector reservation is laughable. To think someone like Mamata or Mulayam will engage in further economic reforms or not napalm all the initiatives Mahatma Modi has made is naive, IMO. Weak governments are the most vulnerable to special interest groups who want this or that law removed/created. Some union with a large chunk of voters can easily get the new Contract-Labor Laws repealed by promising their votes to some regional satrap.     

 

Also, the demographic dividend idea is a tired cliche'. In the same video Gupta acknowledges that India has failed to establish a proper lower-level education system. Then he also acknowledges we have missed the sweet spot in time when there was much more opportunities for manufacturing = we have a poorly educated workforce, that workforce is multiplying, and we have missed out on the area of the economy which employs the more unskilled labor.  A "demographic" is a "dividend" when one can harness the demographic and use their skills productively. If a demographic doesn't have something to be put to use in or lacks skills for what is available, then all one has are hordes of disaffected, jobless youth.  Some dividend!!! 

 

Also lol at some of Chacha apologia. There was never any sane rationale for ignoring primary education to establish a handful of universities which end up exporting talent to Western countries. If students don't have the fundamentals from primary education, how exactly are they going to take advantage of a select few magical IITs and the sort? 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Tibarn

[Moochad]

On 9/16/2018 at 8:21 AM, Tibarn said:

I don't agree with some parts, but the thing I disagree with the most is the idea that we will succeed regardless. The idea that if we elect some khichdi government or some government led by goofballs who advocate private sector reservation is laughable. To think someone like Mamata or Mulayam will engage in further economic reforms or not napalm all the initiatives Mahatma Modi has made is naive, IMO. Weak governments are the most vulnerable to special interest groups who want this or that law removed/created. Some union with a large chunk of voters can easily get the new Contract-Labor Laws repealed by promising their votes to some regional satrap.     

 

 

Only a handful of leaders are even capable of doing it, even BJP is lacking many. I like Goyal after Modi.

Quote

Also, the demographic dividend idea is a tired cliche'. In the same video Gupta acknowledges that India has failed to establish a proper lower-level education system. Then he also acknowledges we have missed the sweet spot in time when there was much more opportunities for manufacturing = we have a poorly educated workforce, that workforce is multiplying, and we have missed out on the area of the economy which employs the more unskilled labor.  A "demographic" is a "dividend" when one can harness the demographic and use their skills productively. If a demographic doesn't have something to be put to use in or lacks skills for what is available, then all one has are hordes of disaffected, jobless youth.  Some dividend!!! 

Even Sanyal always mentions that demographic dividend. I think it is more of a potential benefit than a confirmed benefit for us. Certainly there will not be benefits if workforce isn't educated/skilled.

Quote

Also lol at some of Chacha apologia. There was never any sane rationale for ignoring primary education to establish a handful of universities which end up exporting talent to Western countries. If students don't have the fundamentals from primary education, how exactly are they going to take advantage of a select few magical IITs and the sort? 

I think he is more saying that Nehru was better than Indira because he took a political stand rather than Indira governing the country based on politics. 

[Tibarn]

On 9/17/2018 at 12:59 PM, Moochad said:

Only a handful of leaders are even capable of doing it, even BJP is lacking many. I like Goyal after Modi.

Goyal is good as FM, like he is now. I don't think he fits as a PM. Only the King in the North is a fitting PM for Bharat.

 

On 9/17/2018 at 12:59 PM, Moochad said:

Even Sanyal always mentions that demographic dividend. I think it is more of a potential benefit than a confirmed benefit for us. Certainly there will not be benefits if workforce isn't educated/skilled.

It makes sense in economic terms(good economic logic), but not outside of that.

On 9/17/2018 at 12:59 PM, Moochad said:

I think he is more saying that Nehru was better than Indira because he took a political stand rather than Indira governing the country based on politics. 

No I get that, but that is exactly why he is being a fool. Nehru ideologically pushed his agenda. Indira pushed the same Socialist agenda for political expediency. Therefore, Indira's IQ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandit Nehru's. Nehru was dumb enough to believe in Socialism and it's BS ideology. Indira just used Socialism to win elections and loot money. She was corrupt, but she was a clever politician and enriched her family. On the other hand, he was an ignoramus.   

 

I know this Gupta fellow from Twitter, he is a Libertarian. The fact that he needs to apologize/defend Nehru reflects poorly on him and is hypocritical, as no sensible Libertarian would be foolish enough to speak of the virtues of some pseudo-intellectual who caused the death of millions through his distinctly evil policies.  

[Moochad]

4 hours ago, Tibarn said:

Goyal is good as FM, like he is now. I don't think he fits as a PM. Only the King in the North is a fitting PM for Bharat.

[Moochad]

 

[sandeep]

On 9/16/2018 at 8:21 AM, Tibarn said:

There was never any sane rationale for ignoring primary education to establish a handful of universities which end up exporting talent to Western countries. If students don't have the fundamentals from primary education, how exactly are they going to take advantage of a select few magical IITs and the sort? 

Hindsight is 20/20.  Why claim that IITs were at the expense of primary education?  Similar arguments are made against ISRO today as well, and the same bhakts jump in to defend that India can afford space research alongside development, and the space program has made great contributions to India.  Same can be said of the IITs as well, they have made major contributions to India. 

 

But let's stick to the agenda of bashing and blaming Nehru for all that went wrong.  Fits a neat narrative that way, facts be damned.  

 

Nehru wasn't perfect.  He made a lot of errors and bad decisions that hurt India. But he made a lot of good ones too.  And IIT is part of the latter, not the former.

[mishra]

On 11/9/2018 at 3:20 PM, sandeep said:

Hindsight is 20/20.  Why claim that IITs were at the expense of primary education?  Similar arguments are made against ISRO today as well, and the same bhakts jump in to defend that India can afford space research alongside development, and the space program has made great contributions to India.  Same can be said of the IITs as well, they have made major contributions to India. 

 

But let's stick to the agenda of bashing and blaming Nehru for all that went wrong.  Fits a neat narrative that way, facts be damned.  

 

Nehru wasn't perfect.  He made a lot of errors and bad decisions that hurt India. But he made a lot of good ones too.  And IIT is part of the latter, not the former.

Agree with most of your comment with exception that Modi supporters are not “bhakts”.  Because its far to rich from anti modi camp. Modi supporter criticise / support Modi policy with objectivity. Most of his support base is educated middle class. They do regularly criticise even Modis cabinet.

But for example, say A chandrababu Naidu supporter, who has allways opposed Mamata Didi till one month back, now finds himself in NO dilemma when Chandrababu Naidu attempts to form a coalition with Mamata Didi. And that is Bhakt.

 

BTW, some IT cell Is sharing 200 blunder list of Modi. My only, response to such people is, they found no fault “in the view of Indian enmass shitting on roadside or railway line every morning”, but all of sudden their nationalism and thinking hat is on. Once again, Think, Modi has to run campaign with a India and Indians who were shitting shamelessly in public. 

[sandeep]

12 minutes ago, mishra said:

Agree with most of your comment with exception that Modi supporters are not “bhakts”.  Because its far to rich from anti modi camp. Modi supporter criticise / support Modi policy with objectivity. Most of his support base is educated middle class. They do regularly criticise even Modis cabinet.

But for example, say A chandrababu Naidu supporter, who has allways opposed Mamata Didi till one month back, now finds himself in NO dilemma when Chandrababu Naidu attempts to form a coalition with Mamata Didi. And that is Bhakt.

 

BTW, some IT cell Is sharing 200 blunder list of Modi. My only, response to such people is, they found no fault “in the view of Indian enmass shitting on roadside or railway line every morning”, but all of sudden their nationalism and thinking hat is on. Once again, Think, Modi has to run campaign with a India and Indians who were shitting shamelessly in public. 

This is such a shitty melange of strawmen that I don't even know where to begin.  

 

"Modi Saar" saving us from Indians shitting in public.  "Modi Saar" invented Shulabh Shauchalay didn't he? They frikking came up with those 25 years ago, when I was still in India. Difference is that 25 years later, India is rich enough, and Modi was slick enough, to tack on a "Swacch Bharat Cess" and drumbeat about it.  Still, fair credit to him for prioritizing the issue and all that.  But in one breath, you say Modi supporters are not "bhakts" and then go on to act like one. 

[mishra]

Lol, i gave example of Bhakt. I will give you another example of Bhakt. As per sources, tomorrow, all retards will blame Modi for politicizing CBI because there is a allegation by retiring guy that PM took regular updates on Lslu Yadav case till Lalu got jailed.

Bottomline is, when you oppose Modi, you support/embolden Mamata, Congress, Lalu mulayam mayavati chidambaram , Kejri , pawar and so on. List in south India is equally big.

So, i will support any person, who can make these people pay , or least,  check these people who have sold india to core.

 

So, let neutrals decide who qualifies as Bhakt or Retard.

Edited November 19, 2018 by mishra

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, mishra said:

when you oppose Modi, you support/embolden Mamata, Congress, Lalu mulayam mayavati chidambaram , Kejri , pawar

Laakh dukho ki ek hi dawa, Modi and only Modi.  that's some bhakt logic.  

[mishra]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

Laakh dukho ki ek hi dawa, Modi and only Modi.  that's some bhakt logic.  

Kyunki vo ek ek kar sabaki lega. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by mishra

[sandeep]

4 hours ago, mishra said:

Kyunki vo ek ek kar sabaki lega. 

vaah.  He is like Salman Bhai eh?  What a nice simple world you live in.

[diga]

Good luck to anybody who thinks that mayawathi,mamatha, Lalu can provide better governance & corruption less govt than Modi...

[mishra]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

vaah.  He is like Salman Bhai eh?  What a nice simple world you live in.

Yes, one is in jail. Few are on bail.

[Tibarn]

On 11/9/2018 at 10:20 AM, sandeep said:

Hindsight is 20/20.  Why claim that IITs were at the expense of primary education?  Similar arguments are made against ISRO today as well, and the same bhakts jump in to defend that India can afford space research alongside development, and the space program has made great contributions to India.  Same can be said of the IITs as well, they have made major contributions to India. 

 

The usual ad hominems by this closeted-pidi, repeating his Bhakt-bhakt, Sanghi-Sanghi verbal diarrhea on a loop, betraying his well-established inability to coherently argue or make a point. This is not unexpected. Unfortunately, the poor guy got triggered by salient criticism of his beloved Nehru's disastrous failure of an economic policy, so he can't carry on his LARPing of neutrality.  

 

It's only "hindsight" for someone ignorant of basic economics and economic history, not to anyone who has read a book on either economics or economic history. I realize that reading anything beyond Wikipedia is difficult for people of Socialist persuasions, but not all of us hold ourselves to such standards of mediocrity. The reality:

 

1)  Nehru didn’t invest enough in primary education. That is evidenced by the rampant illiteracy in India to this day. Similar countries who got independence during similar time periods outperform India on basic measures of primary education, namely adult literacy. That other prime ministers including the current one also fail/have failed in fixing primary education in India, doesn't change that your beloved Nehru was a failure in this regard. 

 

That is not even mentioning secondary education which is often a basic requirement for acquiring a low-end manufacturing job nowadays. Education starts at the bottom. An illiterate populace can't take advantage of even the best secondary or tertiary educational institutions. Unfortunately your beloved Chacha was a Socialist, Statist moron so he didn't understand directionality in either education or in Economics.    

 

He gets blamed for this investment in tertiary education because his apologists whinge endlessly, and inaccurately, about how India was in dire straights when he inherited PM'ship, and they claim he had limited resources for him to create a functional economy.

 

If the excuses apologists make for him are true, which are that: 1) India was a tough case post-independence  and 2) He had limited resources to turn India into a functional economy/country 

 

then --> It is justified to criticize him on how he spends the limited resources he had in the first place. 

 

No major country with a successful economy in history has invested in higher education while skipping/leaving primary education in tatters. Trying to do so shows poor understanding of labor supply.  A poor, uneducated country needs education on the primary level most of all. Poor countries need to shift labor from agriculture to manufacturing.  Make whatever excuses you want. 

 

2)  Of course , what would Nehru apologia be without the tired  "Nehru made IIT" cliché".  Too bad this is a falsehood. The IITs were conceptualized and promoted by a Dr. BC Roy, the first Chief Minister of Bengal. Your beloved Nehruji just signed off on it.  

I would also like to see these "facts" that show that the 5 IITs established under the Nehru-regime contributed significantly to the economy in that period. I doubt you have anything to support your propaganda.

 

The reality is you won't be able to show any discernible, large-scale benefit of the IITs in the Nehruvian era, 1947-1964. India experienced a so-called "IT revolution" only post Rajiv, but it really boomed post economic liberalization by Rao and Vajpayee. At that point there were numerous other IITs and Engineering/Tech(and other discipline) schools established as well(which each consecutive PM can also steal credit for).  Your deranged Chachaji did nothing tangible for the IT sector boom. 

 

This can be seen by the breakdown of the economic sectors across the years itself, like in this chart:

Pretty much no movement in the service sector until the 80s (with no real movement in the manufacturing sector either).

 

That they may have contributed to the economy post "IT-revolution" or post "Economic Liberalization" is irrelevant, as those are major economic decisions/actions taken by different PMs decades after.  That's not even mentioning the fact that this contribution doesn't even show up when taking lag effect into account.  

 

Investing in something in the 50's and them not bearing significant fruit until 30-40+ years after the investment, under economic conditions which you didn't establish, is now being passed off as an achievement nowadays. 

 

Of course, this post also includes a random strawman concerning some amorphous mass of "bhakts" existing somewhere in the ether supposedly trumpeting ISRO as a great economic achievement of Modi, as if these imaginary "bhakts" are similarly unversed in economics as someone trumpeting IITs as an economic workhorse or growth engine of India.  I'm sure these statements linking Modi-ISRO-great economic achievement will be reproduced for all to see here (just kidding).

 

On 11/9/2018 at 10:20 AM, sandeep said:

But let's stick to the agenda of bashing and blaming Nehru for all that went wrong.  Fits a neat narrative that way, facts be damned.  

 

 

Your entire argument is weak and devoid of any facts or data. It is solely propaganda. 

 

 Alleging that other people have agendas and are biased while not providing anything in an entire post except for:" Nehrooji is great you gaizs, IITs rool !!! everyone else iz Bhaktz... derp derp." 

Quote

Nehru wasn't perfect.  He made a lot of errors and bad decisions that hurt India. But he made a lot of good ones too.  And IIT is part of the latter, not the former.

False, Nehru made few if any good decisions and only Goebbelsian hagiographers say otherwise. Pretty much every PM in Indian history is better than him. Even if/when Pappu becomes PM, he won't be as incompetent as your beloved Chacha. 

 

Go ahead and show these great achievements of your beloved Chacha in the economic sphere. Hint hint: there are none. 

 

This BS propaganda can be debunked easily below with a few charts and numbers, as I will do below:

 

 

A total GDP growth rate of 1.68 GDP during his reign. 

 

@ a 1.68 GDP growth rate, India experienced these levels of inflation:

 

His entire PM-ship is essentially a story of either rampant inflation or uncontrolled deflation combined with an average growth rate of 1.68%  Almost every year of his reign, the average Indian, who started off as a malnourished peasant, got poorer!  

 

No successful country in history adopted Socialism as an economic model. This was the case before the 1940s, and this fact has been further supported after morons like your Chacha Nehru destroyed an economy and India was left in the dust in compared to other colonies/similarly poor countries. There were multiple leaders in India itself, within and outside the original Congress party who actively capitalism including Sardar Patel, BR Ambedkar, and C. Rajagopalichari.   Three contemporary leaders, two within his own party, and two from humble backgrounds took the time to understand economics. That your beloved Nehru had a sub-human IQ doesn't excuse his incompetence. 

 

Edit

My apologies for my mistake: 

I read another book by Ambedkar, apparently he was a fool like Chacha as well. All statist economists are by definition fools. He and anyone else who promotes such idiocy deserves to be tossed into the dustbin and constantly ridiculed. 

 

In fact Nehru should be summarily decried as a criminal as supported by the research below, from Swaminathan Aiyar of the CATO Institute:

The Human Cost of Delayed Economic Reform in India

Due to his disastrous policies, an estimated additional 261 million Indians are illiterate and 14.5 million are dead.   Pakistanis in their dreams couldn't kill as many Indians as Chacha did. 

 

 "But...but...but IITs sanghis, chaddis, bhakts, inna mina dhika etc, etc,"   

 

Of course, as the argument can be summarized as "bhakt, bhakt", which is eerily similar to the "bow bow" sound that Pidis make, I guess I should provide a quotation to reveal how little regard people had for him and his policies.  

Spoiler

“Nehru had no idea of economics. He talked of Socialism, but he did not know how to define it. He talked of social justice, but I told him he could have this only when there was an increase in production. He did not grasp that.” —Chester Bowles, then US Ambassador to India.

 

“You know, I never go to Nehru to seek advice or guidance. I take a decision & just present it to him as a fait accompli. Nehru’s mind is too complex to wrestle w the intricacies of a problem. Those who go to him for advice rarely get a lead, that only serves to delay.. matters. Nehru does not understand economics, & is lead by the nose by ‘professors’ & ‘experts’ who pander to his whims & fancies. I do not know where we are going. The country needs a man like Patel.” —Rafi Ahmed Kidwai, Nehru’s close friend and confidant

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Tibarn