Moochad Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Tibarn said: The usual ad hominems by this closeted-pidi, repeating his Bhakt-bhakt, Sanghi-Sanghi verbal diarrhea on a loop, betraying his well-established inability to coherently argue or make a point. This is not unexpected. Unfortunately, the poor guy got triggered by salient criticism of his beloved Nehru's disastrous failure of an economic policy, so he can't carry on his LARPing of neutrality. It's only "hindsight" for someone ignorant of basic economics and economic history, not to anyone who has read a book on either economics or economic history. I realize that reading anything beyond Wikipedia is difficult for people of Socialist persuasions, but not all of us hold ourselves to such standards of mediocrity. The reality: 1) Nehru didn’t invest enough in primary education. That is evidenced by the rampant illiteracy in India to this day. Similar countries who got independence during similar time periods outperform India on basic measures of primary education, namely adult literacy. That other prime ministers including the current one also fail/have failed in fixing primary education in India, doesn't change that your beloved Nehru was a failure in this regard. That is not even mentioning secondary education which is often a basic requirement for acquiring a low-end manufacturing job nowadays. Education starts at the bottom. An illiterate populace can't take advantage of even the best secondary or tertiary educational institutions. Unfortunately your beloved Chacha was a Socialist, Statist moron so he didn't understand directionality in either education or in Economics. He gets blamed for this investment in tertiary education because his apologists whinge endlessly, and inaccurately, about how India was in dire straights when he inherited PM'ship, and they claim he had limited resources for him to create a functional economy. If the excuses apologists make for him are true, which are that: 1) India was a tough case post-independence and 2) He had limited resources to turn India into a functional economy/country then --> It is justified to criticize him on how he spends the limited resources he had in the first place. No major country with a successful economy in history has invested in higher education while skipping/leaving primary education in tatters. Trying to do so shows poor understanding of labor supply. A poor, uneducated country needs education on the primary level most of all. Poor countries need to shift labor from agriculture to manufacturing. Make whatever excuses you want. 2) Of course , what would Nehru apologia be without the tired "Nehru made IIT" cliché". Too bad this is a falsehood. The IITs were conceptualized and promoted by a Dr. BC Roy, the first Chief Minister of Bengal. Your beloved Nehruji just signed off on it. I would also like to see these "facts" that show that the 5 IITs established under the Nehru-regime contributed significantly to the economy in that period. I doubt you have anything to support your propaganda. The reality is you won't be able to show any discernible, large-scale benefit of the IITs in the Nehruvian era, 1947-1964. India experienced a so-called "IT revolution" only post Rajiv, but it really boomed post economic liberalization by Rao and Vajpayee. At that point there were numerous other IITs and Engineering/Tech(and other discipline) schools established as well(which each consecutive PM can also steal credit for). Your deranged Chachaji did nothing tangible for the IT sector boom. This can be seen by the breakdown of the economic sectors across the years itself, like in this chart: Pretty much no movement in the service sector until the 80s (with no real movement in the manufacturing sector either). That they may have contributed to the economy post "IT-revolution" or post "Economic Liberalization" is irrelevant, as those are major economic decisions/actions taken by different PMs decades after. That's not even mentioning the fact that this contribution doesn't even show up when taking lag effect into account. Investing in something in the 50's and them not bearing significant fruit until 30-40+ years after the investment, under economic conditions which you didn't establish, is now being passed off as an achievement nowadays. Of course, this post also includes a random strawman concerning some amorphous mass of "bhakts" existing somewhere in the ether supposedly trumpeting ISRO as a great economic achievement of Modi, as if these imaginary "bhakts" are similarly unversed in economics as someone trumpeting IITs as an economic workhorse or growth engine of India. I'm sure these statements linking Modi-ISRO-great economic achievement will be reproduced for all to see here (just kidding). Your entire argument is weak and devoid of any facts or data. It is solely propaganda. Alleging that other people have agendas and are biased while not providing anything in an entire post except for:" Nehrooji is great you gaizs, IITs rool !!! everyone else iz Bhaktz... derp derp." False, Nehru made few if any good decisions and only Goebbelsian hagiographers say otherwise. Pretty much every PM in Indian history is better than him. Even if/when Pappu becomes PM, he won't be as incompetent as your beloved Chacha. Go ahead and show these great achievements of your beloved Chacha in the economic sphere. Hint hint: there are none. This BS propaganda can be debunked easily below with a few charts and numbers, as I will do below: A total GDP growth rate of 1.68 GDP during his reign. @ a 1.68 GDP growth rate, India experienced these levels of inflation: His entire PM-ship is essentially a story of either rampant inflation or uncontrolled deflation combined with an average growth rate of 1.68% Almost every year of his reign, the average Indian, who started off as a malnourished peasant, got poorer! No successful country in history adopted Socialism as an economic model. This was the case before the 1940s, and this fact has been further supported after morons like your Chacha Nehru destroyed an economy and India was left in the dust in compared to other colonies/similarly poor countries. There were multiple leaders in India itself, within and outside the original Congress party who actively capitalism including Sardar Patel, BR Ambedkar, and C. Rajagopalichari. Three contemporary leaders, two within his own party, and two from humble backgrounds took the time to understand economics. That your beloved Nehru had a sub-human IQ doesn't excuse his incompetence. In fact Nehru should be summarily decried as a criminal as supported by the research below, from Swaminathan Aiyar of the CATO Institute: The Human Cost of Delayed Economic Reform in India Due to his disastrous policies, an estimated additional 261 million Indians are illiterate and 14.5 million are dead. Pakistanis in their dreams couldn't kill as many Indians as Chacha did. "But...but...but IITs sanghis, chaddis, bhakts, inna mina dhika etc, etc," Of course, as the argument can be summarized as "bhakt, bhakt", which is eerily similar to the "bow bow" sound that Pidis make, I guess I should provide a quotation to reveal how little regard people had for him and his policies. Reveal hidden contents “Nehru had no idea of economics. He talked of Socialism, but he did not know how to define it. He talked of social justice, but I told him he could have this only when there was an increase in production. He did not grasp that.” —Chester Bowles, then US Ambassador to India. “You know, I never go to Nehru to seek advice or guidance. I take a decision & just present it to him as a fait accompli. Nehru’s mind is too complex to wrestle w the intricacies of a problem. Those who go to him for advice rarely get a lead, that only serves to delay.. matters. Nehru does not understand economics, & is lead by the nose by ‘professors’ & ‘experts’ who pander to his whims & fancies. I do not know where we are going. The country needs a man like Patel.” —Rafi Ahmed Kidwai, Nehru’s close friend and confidant Glad to see you back! You started chucking bombs right with your first post back Tibarn 1
Tibarn Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Moochad said: Glad to see you back! You started chucking bombs right with your first post back It's only for today Amreekans apparently need a whole week to celebrate the genocide of Native Americans, but I am stuck in this airport, and I forgot my Switch at home, so I have to post on here to kill time! My post is hardly bombastic! I just baited Sandeep into revealing his anti-Modi and Socialist nature. I think he got triggered by my writing Mahatma Modi, so he clearly struggles understanding sarcasm. I'm glad he took the bait Edited November 21, 2018 by Tibarn
Moochad Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tibarn said: I just baited Sandeep into revealing his anti-Modi and Socialist nature. I think he got triggered by my writing Mahatma Modi, so he clearly struggles understanding sarcasm. I'm glad he took the bait Lol yaar, that would be the 2nd time you baited someone with that phrase!!! Edited November 21, 2018 by Moochad Tibarn 1
Tibarn Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 On topic Interesting article from Brookings Quote The key to India's growth story lies hidden in the Hindi heartland Read more at: //economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/66628847.cms?from=mdr&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst Basically in the entire Northern plains, there isn't a single city which is a major employment or growth generator. I bet a lot of that has to do the disastrous Freight Equalization Policy. Natural resource rich states like JH, CG, OD, etc lost their competitive advantage to cities in the rest of the country. diehardpacer 1
sandeep Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Tibarn said: I just baited Sandeep into revealing his anti-Modi and Socialist nature. I think he got triggered by my writing Mahatma Modi, so he clearly struggles understanding sarcasm. I'm glad he took the bait When you make assumptions, you end up making an ass out of yourself. Looks like you have a reading disability or you just skipped reading parts of what I wrote and got busy working yourself into a frothing frenzy. Quote Nehru wasn't perfect. He made a lot of errors and bad decisions that hurt India. But he made a lot of good ones too. And IIT is part of the latter, not the former. and Quote Why claim that IITs were at the expense of primary education? Similar arguments are made against ISRO today as well, Instead of addressing my point, you proceeded to build up a strawman, attacked it, and declared victory. What can I say? Enjoy, I guess? And I never noticed that phrase that seem to be feeling so proud of, nor do I really care what you call Modi. But, by all means, please carry on believing whatever it is that you wish. Maybe it helps you feel smart. or whatever. Toodles.
velu Posted November 22, 2018 Posted November 22, 2018 guys calm down .. @sandeep vs ( @mishra , @Tibarn ) Tibarn, mishra and Moochad 3
Tibarn Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) On 11/20/2018 at 10:37 PM, sandeep said: When you make assumptions, you end up making an ass out of yourself. Looks like you have a reading disability or you just skipped reading parts of what I wrote and got busy working yourself into a frothing frenzy. Pot meet kettle, You are the rabid Pidi who failed to address anything written in the post you quoted, instead just started barking Bhakt-bhakt and accusing others of having an agenda( I guess in hopes of a biscuit). I am not surprised that someone with your reading comprehension skills doesn't understand the irony in your own post. I addressed each and every part of your argument, but why let facts get in the way of your pathetic attempts to save face? As one can see below: On 11/20/2018 at 10:37 PM, sandeep said: Quote Nehru wasn't perfect. He made a lot of errors and bad decisions that hurt India. But he made a lot of good ones too. And IIT is part of the latter, not the former. and Quote Why claim that IITs were at the expense of primary education? Similar arguments are made against ISRO today as well, Instead of addressing my point, you proceeded to build up a strawman, attacked it, and declared victory. See below Claim 1 Quote Nehru wasn't perfect. He made a lot of errors and bad decisions that hurt India. But he made a lot of good ones too. And IIT is part of the latter, not the former. Quote False, Nehru made few if any good decisions ... Go ahead and show these great achievements of your beloved Chacha in the economic sphere. Hint hint: there are none. Quote Due to his disastrous policies, an estimated additional 261 million Indians are illiterate and 14.5 million are dead. There are another 109 million people in poverty because of his horrible policies I added an addendum to the 2nd quote here in bold. Claim 2 Quote Why claim that IITs were at the expense of primary education? Similar arguments are made against ISRO today as well, is addressed by Quote 1) Nehru didn’t invest enough in primary education. That is evidenced by the rampant illiteracy in India to this day. Similar countries who got independence during similar time periods outperform India on basic measures of primary education, namely adult literacy. That other prime ministers including the current one also fail/have failed in fixing primary education in India, doesn't change that your beloved Nehru was a failure in this regard. Quote He gets blamed for this investment in tertiary education because his apologists whinge endlessly, and inaccurately, about how India was in dire straights when he inherited PM'ship, and they claim he had limited resources for him to create a functional economy. Quote No major country with a successful economy in history has invested in higher education while skipping/leaving primary education in tatters. Trying to do so shows poor understanding of labor supply. A poor, uneducated country needs education on the primary level most of all. Poor countries need to shift labor from agriculture to manufacturing. Make whatever excuses you want. I addressed each portion your argument, but I never expected someone with your antecedents to show any integrity in this regard. You are too busy backtracking and trying to save face by hiding behind empty sanctimony. You started the personal insults with pejoratives like bhakt and claiming I have an agenda, instead of addressing the points I originally made, and, now, you are whinging when because I responded in kind. Shamelessness knows no limits it seems. Try your BS with someone else, I have no patience for two-faced people. Edited November 26, 2018 by Tibarn
Tibarn Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) double post Edited November 26, 2018 by Tibarn
Moochad Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 @velu Yaar can you clean up this thread? These guys are getting a little too personal now... and derailing the thread velu 1
Global.Baba Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) Modi has done grave injustice to Andhra Pradesh though :( still BJP though :( best of the worst Edited November 28, 2018 by Global.Baba
Yoda-esque Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Global.Baba said: Modi has done grave injustice to Andhra Pradesh though :( still BJP though :( best of the worst What injustice Maniac?
Global.Baba Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Yoda-esque said: What injustice Maniac? I will take that as a question for me :) Hyderabad was the backbone of Andhra Pradesh’s economy. After the split and with Hyderabad going to Telangana, that was a huge dent to the newly formed state of Andhra Pradesh. Modi despite the denials now has promised special status to AP. Evidence is available Now obviously it may not possible due to clauses in constitution etc and this has been discussed to death. However these promises were clearly made in 2014 by Modi himself with footage available for it. Later when the time came this was substituted with a package of a significant amount that would more than compensate for just the “titular” special status. However the funds never came through either. According to CBN no funds came through or just a token amount was disbursed. According to BJP a significant first payment was made but CBN ate away all the money. Either ways the promise was not fully delivered and the public sentiment that injustice has been done. Now Naidu claims that he was made to wait and no appointment given and was totally humiliated every time he went to Delhi to meet Modi. Is he exaggerating or not, not sure but clearly this issue has not progressed further. Venkaiah Naidu who was a major player in the BJP till recently was getting vocal about this and now has been assigned a rubber stamp position of Vice President to keep him away from this whole issue. Regardless of which side you are on, this has been handled poorly by the BJP. CBN is a seasoned politician and as you can see he has been on a mission to form an anti-Modi alliance. He even joined forces with Congress when that was the reason why his party was formed to begin with as an Anti-Congress entity . I have been traveling across Andhra-Telangana-Tamil Nadu in the last month while on vacation and going by the word on the streets of the common folk there seems to be a very strong Anti-BJP sentiment in Andhra. Surpringly in Telangana BJP has a relatively more vocal support. Edited November 28, 2018 by Global.Baba mishra 1
Yoda-esque Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 I will take that as a question for me :) Hyderabad was the backbone of Andhra Pradesh’s economy. After the split and with Hyderabad going to Telangana, that was a huge dent to the newly formed state of Andhra Pradesh. Modi despite the denials now has promised special status to AP. Evidence is available Now obviously it may not possible due to clauses in constitution etc and this has been discussed to death. However these promises were clearly made in 2014 by Modi himself with footage available for it. Later when the time came this was substituted with a package of a significant amount that would more than compensate for just the “titular” special status. However the funds never came through either. According to CBN no funds came through or just a token amount was disbursed. According to BJP a significant first payment was made but CBN ate away all the money. Either ways the promise was not fully delivered and the public sentiment that injustice has been done. Now Naidu claims that he was made to wait and no appointment given and was totally humiliated every time he went to Delhi to meet Modi. Is he exaggerating or not, not sure but clearly this issue has not progressed further. Venkaiah Naidu who was a major player in the BJP till recently was getting vocal about this and now has been assigned a rubber stamp position of Vice President to keep him away from this whole issue. Regardless of which side you are on, this has been handled poorly by the BJP. CBN is a seasoned politician and as you can see he has been on a mission to form an anti-Modi alliance. He even joined forces with Congress when that was the reason why his party was formed to begin with as an Anti-Congress entity . I have been traveling across Andhra-Telangana-Tamil Nadu in the last month while on vacation and going by the word on the streets of the common folk there seems to be a very strong Anti-BJP sentiment in Andhra. Surpringly in Telangana BJP has a relatively more vocal support.Thanks for the update.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Global.Baba Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Yoda-esque said: Thanks for the update. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Your welcome I guess. Looks like I could have just summarized instead of a long post velu 1
mishra Posted November 29, 2018 Posted November 29, 2018 8 hours ago, Global.Baba said: Your welcome I guess. Looks like I could have just summarized instead of a long post My Gulatee frnds say the same. Allthough they find it difficult to side with mamata naidu stuff but, seems like, between Naidu and bjp, they will choose Naidu. Modi needs to go and personally deal with it as state bjp has lost it, Gulatee are not illogical. They will take a technical justification in delay and future promise. i feel Chandrababu Naidu knows what his people wants
Global.Baba Posted November 30, 2018 Posted November 30, 2018 16 hours ago, mishra said: My Gulatee frnds say the same. Allthough they find it difficult to side with mamata naidu stuff but, seems like, between Naidu and bjp, they will choose Naidu. Modi needs to go and personally deal with it as state bjp has lost it, Gulatee are not illogical. They will take a technical justification in delay and future promise. i feel Chandrababu Naidu knows what his people wants Naidu’s popularity in Andhra is at an all time low. There is strong Anti-BJP sentiment and Naidu has that stench being associated with them for 2 decades. Quitting BJP alliance and trying to form this Maha Gathbandhan is just a political strategy rather than some moral high ground. The other 3 options are congress which is pretty much done in Andhra as the people there view them as the party responsible for the split. The strongest one is Jagan’s YCP and then the last option is actor turned politician Pawan Kalyan. It is going to be the most open election ever in Andhra. In Telangana though BJP is finding some voice. TRS was supposed to rule forever as they claimed to be the founders of Telangana state. However people have seen through that it is just another dynast political party and there hasn’t been a lot of growth either. Congress too is relatively better off here but right now looks like BJP is the clear 2nd even though still a little distant. mishra 1
diga Posted December 1, 2018 Posted December 1, 2018 On 11/30/2018 at 10:56 AM, Global.Baba said: In Telangana though BJP is finding some voice. TRS was supposed to rule forever as they claimed to be the founders of Telangana state. However people have seen through that it is just another dynast political party and there hasn’t been a lot of growth either. Congress too is relatively better off here but right now looks like BJP is the clear 2nd even though still a little distant. How much has Owaisi contributed to BJPs surge?
Oldhere Posted December 1, 2018 Posted December 1, 2018 3 hours ago, diga said: How much has Owaisi contributed to BJPs surge? Bjp isnt anywhere in Telegana. They are gonna be a distant third.
Global.Baba Posted December 2, 2018 Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Oldhere said: Bjp isnt anywhere in Telegana. They are gonna be a distant third. What are you basing this on? TRS is obviously still the no.1 by the looks of it. However Congess has a charismatic leader in Revanth Reddy where as BJP has Paripurnananda swamiji who has a pretty big following himself. Apart from that no big star campaigners either side. The folks who have settled in Telangana and have origins in Andhra mostly will vote for BJP and not Congress. And I do not have an abvious survey or statistic but even the ones disappointed with TRS are planning to vote for BJP from the few folks I have interacted with. Obviously that is not a benchmark and only a few handful of voices but that’s how I have formed my opinion. Please let me know if you have a better source. Genuine request. Edited December 2, 2018 by Global.Baba
Global.Baba Posted December 2, 2018 Posted December 2, 2018 17 hours ago, diga said: How much has Owaisi contributed to BJPs surge? Owaisi’s impact is always overstated. At best he will eat into the vote share of the “secular” parties but usually won’t have an impact on BJPs progress or failure.
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