Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[tweaker]

7 wicket haul for Gurbani in Duleep trophy

[Pollack]

24 minutes ago, speedheat said:

This could help! 6-8m is good length..

How does it help? When did I say 6m-8m is not a good length. Debate is about short of a good length. According to rKT it's back to good length that is over 8m. According to me, its meaning is shorter end of a good length i.e 7m-8m. In any case, where a ball pitch is not the sole determinant of a good length.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Pollack

[Pollack]

29 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

6-8 is good length, anything shorter than that is short of good length.  Short is around meter.

Short of a good length is shorter end of good length. In any case what constitutes a good length is not dependent on where it pitched alone. Pitch, bounce, batsmen and bowlers height etc all alter what is a good length even if pitches in the areas designated as good length. That is why I rely on my eyes to guage what is a good length rather than having a look at Hawkeye. Bumrah bowled short of a good length.And yes your definition of short of a good length being over than 8m is wrong. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Pollack

[Adi BB]

Absolutely loved the way our pacers bowled after lunch,all 4 of them clicked 140k+ in their respective spells,it's difficult to bat against such hostile spells.

England bowlers are perhaps missing a bit of pace for succeeding on this pitch 

[Adi BB]

1 hour ago, GautiMaan said:

It would be interesting to compare this to the last test,where we had only 3 seamers

I'm pretty sure when there are four of them to share the load,the intensity of each one goes up.It is also why the 4 bowler theory never worked for us in the past overseas

So true 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

3rd test 1st innings ...  some genuine fast bowling from 3 of our 4 pacers

 

Bumrah

Fastest    145 k

Average   140 k

 

Pandya

Fastest    145 k

Average   138 k

 

Shami

Fastest    144 k

Average   139 k

 

Ishant

Fastest    141 k

Average   135 k

 

From :  BCCI.tv

 

 

 

 

Compare this to the English seamers in the first innings.  Yes,  they are a bit more disciplined than us.  But look flatter than us if there isn't sufficient movement ...  due to their lower speeds.

 

 

Broad

Fastest     141 k

Average   134 k

 

Woakes

Fastest     140 k

Average   132 k

 

Stokes

Fastest     139 k

Average   132 k

 

Anderson

Fastest     137 k

Average   132 k

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Pollack said:

Short of a good length is shorter end of good length. In any case what constitutes a good length is not dependent on where it pitched alone. Pitch, bounce, batsmen and bowlers height etc all alter what is a good length even if pitches in the areas designated as good length. That is why I rely on my eyes to guage what is a good length rather than having a look at Hawkeye. Bumrah bowled short of a good length.And yes your definition of short of a good length being over than 8m is wrong. 

 Plz read the completely reasearched article I had posted a few days back here. I will tag you in that thread and all of your confusion and misconception will be cleared.

[express bowling]

Pandya's spell today showcases again that ... when a pacer is in good rhythm and fit, he is often both more accurate and more pacy.

 

Cutting down pace to become more accurate, rarely works unless the bowler was trying to bowl much quicker than normal in the first place.

[vayuu1]

And the good thing is all 4 of them can bowl quicker than this, Bumrah can crank upto 149-150,Shami too, ishant can bowl in late 140's and Hardik too can crank upto 147-148

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk

[vishalvirsingh]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

All wickets taken by fast bowlers

 

Pandya   5

Bumrah  2

Ishant     2

Shami     1

 

 

 

 

I think we owe a big thanks to our fast bowlers for a terrific performance and hence my few words devoted to all the four of them.

 

Pandya always bowls the right lengths that should be bowled in a test match, he is always either good length or even fullish and goes for plenty of runs and some times manages to get wickets.

But when ever he gets his Pace up, i mean ranging from 136K to 145K , he turns into a Strike bowler and I guess there was some serious pressure on him as So many critics who were targeting him big time and mentioning to drop him for Nair...India has never produced a genuine allrounder other than Kapil dev , hindsight even Kapil's batting average was also 30 if my memory serves me well or so which was never so impressive considering that he got to bat in asian conditions a lot.

 

the other would be challengers Vijay or Binny are jokes of bowlers and under 128K trundlers so actually he has no competition and outside of india , he is kind of a must. Just notice ashwin did not bowl a single over today and was hardly required.

 

under swinging and good conditions , pandya bowled 138 to 141 consistently and the right lengths and got wickets , stokes wanted to score of him and took him lightly. i think he had managed a seriously good rhythm possibly he practiced hard in nets and was in full flow. he did not bat well today morning. I have always supported him as any cricketer who is a good fielder can manage to improve his other two aspects but normally in fielding , his natural instincts take over, i find pandya as no 2  fielder behind ravinder jadeja for india so as soon as he is picked in the 11 , he is already 8 to 10 runs ahead of say Pujara or ashwin as both of them are bogus fileders. he rocked today as a bowler.

6 over 28 runs 5 wickets....

 

Bumrah got jennings and butler ( who was looking in great form), he was the no 1 bowler from my stand point, he rocked the openers, hit them hard , could have got more than 2 wickets. 

Not just me, Holding who is always pulling down our pacers and calls them medium pacers was all the time talking about Bumrah as creating panic among english batsman and he was right this time. he was lowlighting ishant and even calling Shammi slower than Bumrah and repeating the same sentences multiple times, even my dear Isha Guha was also thinking likewise , all english commentators were accepting that bumrah is dangerous. Normally these commentators do not talk about any other bowler except Anderson and broad. bumrah made an impact as i expected him too...Hope Lala reads this article, Indian fast bowler consistently bowling 145K and averaging 142K.

 

Shammi tried a bit more and was terrific in second spell , got 1 wicket and created lot of opportunities in his second spell, he was a little costly in his first spell and gave around 50 runs in 10 overs for his 1 wicket, He should have bowled better but i am not worried as he was bowling good pace uptil 144k ..and between 135 to 144k. Till Shammi is bowling fast , I am rest assured that he is bound to take wickets , he has the best line and length to get wickets. only when he trundles that I worry about Shammi, if he is bowling fast , he will get wickets.

 

Ishant 9 overs 32 runs and 2 wickets. he bowled full and good length and only a few genuine bouncers.

Bowled full regularly and it seems BHARAT ARUN is doing wonders at least for ISHANT as ISHANT never bowled 6 good length balls and now if he bowls good length , he may extend his career by 1 or 2 years. 

He bowled very very well, he rocked.

 

For me all fast bowlers bowled very well and possibly bumrah and Hardik bowled the best followed by Ishant and they attacked Hardik and shammi and gave away their wickets to Hardik. Shammi could have got more wickets too.

Over all Proud to see the 4 pacers and they should be repeated in next test.

Hope they pack up england to win the test in second innings.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by vishalvirsingh

[Suhaan]

Pandya has to seriously back his bowling,there should be one aapect among the two based on which he should walk into the side with relative ease..I believe that will rub on to his batting,thereon we can get a seamer all-rounder we have been craving for

[rkt.india]

Shami averages 36 in this series.  It shows how hot and cold he has blown. Even last time in England, he was similar.

[R!TTER]

Just now, rkt.india said:

Shami averages 36 in this series.  It shows how hot and cold he has blown. Even last time in England, he was similar.

Also shows how overrated Shami is, our only go to bowler on such tracks is BK. Anders avg 13 off this series FFS.

Edited August 20, 2018 by R!TTER

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Also shows how overrated Shami is, our only go to bowler on such tracks is BK. Anders avg 13 off this series FFS.

Though Anderson bowled in more favorable conditions at Lords in both innings. Shami certainly has issues.

[R!TTER]

Just now, rkt.india said:

Though Anderson bowled in more favorable conditions at Lords in both innings. Shami certainly has issues.

13 vs 36, the difference is too much. He was similarly inconsistent in SA, as you noted, remember?

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Shami averages 36 in this series.  It shows how hot and cold he has blown. Even last time in England, he was similar.

 

As you know, Shami is a much improved bowler after return from injury in 2016. From that WI series, he has been consistent in almost every series.

 

His overall performance from then in 21 tests  ...  average 24.8  and  SR  47.7.  There are top figures which show consistency in performance.

 

His completed series averages from then

 

25.8

30.4

25.2

17.7

29.9

17.1

 

Again, a lot of consistency is there.

 

In this series ... he has bowled only 1 bad spell per se ... his first spell yesterday.   Let the series finish, his figures may improve.

 

Even in World cricket, it is not easy to find a pacer who has a SR of 51 over his whole career.

 

[Vk1]

13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

As you know, Shami is a much improved bowler after return from injury in 2016. From that WI series, he has been consistent in almost every series.

 

His overall performance from then in 21 tests  ...  average 24.8  and  SR  47.7.  There are top figures which show consistency in performance.

 

His completed series averages from then

 

25.8

30.4

25.2

17.7

29.9

17.1

 

Again, a lot of consistency is there.

 

In this series ... he has bowled only 1 bad spell per se ... his first spell yesterday.   Let the series finish, his figures may improve.

 

Even in World cricket, it is not easy to find a pacer who has a SR of 51 over his whole career.

 

If he finds his groove and maintains consistently, he will be on a different level.

[rkt.india]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

As you know, Shami is a much improved bowler after return from injury in 2016. From that WI series, he has been consistent in almost every series.

 

His overall performance from then in 21 tests  ...  average 24.8  and  SR  47.7.  There are top figures which show consistency in performance.

 

His completed series averages from then

 

25.8

30.4

25.2

17.7

29.9

17.1

 

Again, a lot of consistency is there.

 

In this series ... he has bowled only 1 bad spell per se ... his first spell yesterday.   Let the series finish, his figures may improve.

 

Even in World cricket, it is not easy to find a pacer who has a SR of 51 over his whole career.

 

his stats are one of the most misleading we could see.  he just covers up and does well to maintain his stats but goes missing at the crucial junctures.  Same thing happened in SA when every time others put SA under pressure, he went missing.  he has done enough for himself but just not enough for India to win matches. Lords is a good example.  He did enough to keep his place but not enough to get the team out of trouble.  I dont care waht SR or average is because I am watching games and countless times he has gone missing when a good spell from him could have won us the game.   Stats are for future analysis for people who have not watched him when he will be retired and people will be talking about how good his stats are and how good he was at his best but reality is different for us who are watching him live.  At his best, he is great but that best does not last long and has not been good enough to win us games.

[express bowling]

32 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

his stats are one of the most misleading we could see.  he just covers up and does well to maintain his stats but goes missing at the crucial junctures. 

 

If someone covers up to maintain overall great stats then that means he is amazingly good in certain phases.  And that has a lot of value too.

 

Quote

Same thing happened in SA when every time others put SA under pressure, he went missing.  he has done enough for himself but just not enough for India to win matches.

I think we have discussed it 10 times earlier ... Shami was under a lot of mental pressure because of brewing tensions with his wife ending in criminal charges even.  This is not a normal happening in one's life.

 

This SA tour is not a typical example of what his ability is.

 

I don't know why you keep on bringing this tour as an example again and again.  

 

Quote

Lords is a good example.  He did enough to keep his place but not enough to get the team out of trouble.  I dont care waht SR or average is because I am watching games and countless times he has gone missing when a good spell from him could have won us the game.   Stats are for future analysis for people who have not watched him when he will be retired and people will be talking about how good his stats are and how good he was at his best but reality is different for us who are watching him live.  At his best, he is great but that best does not last long and has not been good enough to win us games.

 

Stats also showcase the end result ...  matches are not won and lost based on perceptions.  

 

Barring some amazing pacers like Steyn, Marshall etc.  everyone blows hot and cold.   Broad has looked flat in this series more often than not.  Anderson has looked innocuous the moment the ball has not moved significantly.   We tend to forget the inconsistencies of our opponents.

Edited August 20, 2018 by express bowling

[Nikhil_cric]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

If someone covers up to maintain overall great stats then that means he is amazingly good in certain phases.  And that has a lot of value too.

 

I think we have discussed it 10 times earlier ... Shami was under a lot of mental pressure because of brewing tensions with his wife ending in criminal charges even.  This is not a normal happening in one's life.

 

This SA tour is not a typical example of what his ability is.

 

I don't know why you keep on bringing this tour as an example again and again.  

 

 

Stats also showcase the end result ...  matches are not won and lost based on perceptions.  

 

Barring some amazing pacers like Steyn, Marshall etc.  everyone blows hot and cold.   Broad has looked flat in this series more often than not.  Anderson has looked innocuous the moment the ball has not moved significantly.   We tend to forget the inconsistencies of our opponents.

Yeah if he does cover up then that's good but is that good enough? He wasted the new ball yesterday and I prefer our Pacers taking wickets upfront and that cannot happen if Shami continues to be wayward upfront. He's not a bowler for long spells anyway. These small margins are important for us. If, say, siraj comes in and hits his lengths immediately, I think Shami will have to be rotated out. I think Umesh got hard done by when he was left out for kuly in the second test as that could've given us a better idea who our best 3 Pacers are.