Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[rkt.india]

27 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Quite possible. I too thought that Bumrah, Saini, Shami and Siraj bowled quicker than what speeds they clocked in Australia.

 

But we know that Chahar, Natarajan and Shardul are not that quick. But they will be our LOI pacers and even Kaul and Unadkat are being shortlisted. No pace in the attack is never good.

Why do you think Kaul and Unadkat are shortlisted? Just because of fitness test. Even Mavi and Arshdeep were called for new fitness test. NCA is calling several players for the test. It doesn't indicate anything.

[Suhaan]

No,we can't see you

 

[Vk1]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Novelty factor saved us in Australia.  With Shami, Umesh and Bumrah gone in the 4th test, our pace was really low in that test. But it was overcome by novelty factor and fighting spirit.

 

It may work for a short time but a pace attack, where every pacer averages less than 135 k, becomes too predictable and one dimensional. Most such pacers never succeed in the long run unless they are really tall.

 

We are going to see shortish trundlers bowling in the LOIs against England. Let the novelty factor be over ... and see the mauling they get after a few months. 

 

The days of Vinay Ko-Mar  and Ashok Dinda maybe back in LOIs.

 

Kohli has not been able to settle in any new 140 k+ pacer since his debut as captain.

 

 

 vinay ko mar he did live up to his  name

[Nikhil_cric]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Since Bumrah's debut, we have debuted just one 140 k+ pacer.

 

Most of the new pacers coming through generally bowl 130 k to 140 k or 125 k to 135 k. Although Kohli is thought to be a pace lover.

 

Dhoni is generally known as a trundler lover but all our quick pacers ... Bumrah, Shami and Umesh ... debuted under Dhoni.

 

In a couple of years, when Shami, Umesh and Ishant are done, we may have just medium pacers playing if Bumrah is rested.

 

 

More than debuting quicks who bowl 140 + , I fear we have gone back to the dark days when our bowlers lost pace after a couple of seasons. Siraj has lost way too much pace in just 2 seasons. Domestic workloads/poor strength and conditioning - I'm not sure what the issue. Ishant - it's understandable considering how many years he has been around but our younger bowlers losing pace has to be looked at. Khaleel lost pace rapidly too.

[vishalvirsingh]

On 2/13/2021 at 11:44 AM, Vickydev said:

You are severely underrating Porel. He is incredibly accurate and makes the ball talk and on a wicket with any sort of help can run rings around any quality batsman. His pace looks better as well recently.

Nattu is way more accurate and many medium pacers are available for india selection who were accurate..just to refresh your memory..vinay kumar, Pankaj Singh, Sandeep Sharma and so many  more failed big time in international cricket.  Though they were very accurate and master of their art.

Olly stone of England is not too accurate but he has a bright future because he is 140 to 152k pacer.

Kindly suggest bowlers who can compete Archer bumrah Olly stone... international cricket is a different ball game

[Vickydev]

8 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Nattu is way more accurate and many medium pacers are available for india selection who were accurate..just to refresh your memory..vinay kumar, Pankaj Singh, Sandeep Sharma and so many  more failed big time in international cricket.  Though they were very accurate and master of their art.

Olly stone of England is not too accurate but he has a bright future because he is 140 to 152k pacer.

Kindly suggest bowlers who can compete Archer bumrah Olly stone... international cricket is a different ball game

Iam sorry but I cant take this seriously. Natarajan more accurate than Porel?? He wasted the new ball in Gabba by not making the batsman play enough, Porel on the other hand never lets up. He is always at the batsman,  and seams it beautifully. Gets extra bounce from length because of his height and high release. And dont get me started on Vinay, Sandeep n co. They are not a patch on Porel. 

 

Stones is good. But Porel will do his own thing. Bowling 145+ is not everything, if the bowler can seam it at around 130-135 with his height, zip and accuracy like Porel does, he can be unplayable too.

[Rightarmfast]

All the people who think Stuart Broad and Anderson are ATG's, please have a look. The keeper is standing up to him just as he would for a keeper. Thats how dolly his balls are! ( cricket ball )

[express bowling]

10 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

More than debuting quicks who bowl 140 + , I fear we have gone back to the dark days when our bowlers lost pace after a couple of seasons. Siraj has lost way too much pace in just 2 seasons. Domestic workloads/poor strength and conditioning - I'm not sure what the issue. Ishant - it's understandable considering how many years he has been around but our younger bowlers losing pace has to be looked at. Khaleel lost pace rapidly too.

 

 

Some of our young fast bowlers losing pace, is definitely a key issue now.

 

Has happened with Siraj, Khaleel and maybe Mavi too. 

 

Strength and conditioning training was rather good in the 2016 to 2019 period. Most Indian quicks were not only adding pace but sustaining speeds it throughout the day. 

 

But not so any more.

 

Strength and conditioning training needs to improve.

 

I wonder whether it has something do with Shankar Basu's departure as Strength and Conditioning coach.

 

Reports regarding NCA was not good either. I hope things have improved with Dravid in charge.

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

Broad operating in late 120's! What an ATG!

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

We don't have many options and even they hardly play in domestics.

 

 

Options are there. But the young U19 quicks are not transitioning well from junior to senior level.

 

Need a responsible person to manage this transition in a planned and efficient manner 

 

They are getting lost along the way. Prasidh, Avesh and Mavi have low FC averages but none are regular for our A-teams. 

 

Fitness management is not good at the NCA either.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by express bowling

[Vk1]

Eng missed a trick here by not bowling Stone at full steam to Ashwin

[Nikhil_cric]

27 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Eng missed a trick here by not bowling Stone at full steam to Ashwin

No. Silverwood is an exceptionally cunning guy. Their seamers bowled very little in the 1st test and now seamers are being  underbowled here so that they can fresh and at their fastest for the pink ball test where they will attack with pace. They know that we have more to lose than they do. 

[rkt.india]

15 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

No. Silverwood is an exceptionally cunning guy. Their seamers bowled very little in the 1st test and now seamers are being  underbowled here so that they can fresh and at their fastest for the pink ball test where they will attack with pace. They know that we have more to lose than they do. 

Don't get this fuss about pink ball. Just make a normal pitch. It will behave same as the red ball or white ball.

[express bowling]

18 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

better speedometers(when we bowl).

 

 

BCCI needs to look at whether the speed gun readings are being shown correctly by broadcasters. As you said, they are not looking correct in our last 2 series.

 

Fast bowlers look at speed readings in the giant screens and check them after matches too ... and get demoralized if they seem lower than what is expected. Heard Bumrah and Archer talking about this as well as Ranji Trophy pacers.

 

Fair speed readings for both sides is something that is expected in every match. 

[Suhaan]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Fair speed readings for both sides is something that is expected in every match. 

 

8 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Broad and Anderson have clocked 90mph ,they are getting more than a fair deal.

What could be the reason for showing lesser speeds for genuine pacers like Saini,Bumrah,Shami and higher for medium fasts Broad,Anderson?

Marketing home pacers is good thing which every board does,wonder why BCCI doesn't do it or pays less attention to it?

Why they look down to pace?

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Broad and Anderson have clocked 90mph ,they are getting more than a fair deal.

 

 

They don't bowl at these speeds in most matches.  Yes, they have been one off deliveries but none have looked this quick.

 

Many of these broadcasters have foreigners in charge. English or Australians. Don't know why !!

[Vk1]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

No. Silverwood is an exceptionally cunning guy. Their seamers bowled very little in the 1st test and now seamers are being  underbowled here so that they can fresh and at their fastest for the pink ball test where they will attack with pace. They know that we have more to lose than they do. 

dont think bowling 10-12 overs in an innings would drain these international level fast bowlers.. also at ahmedabad it will be anderson and archer. 

[Vk1]

41 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

BCCI needs to look at whether the speed gun readings are being shown correctly by broadcasters. As you said, they are not looking correct in our last 2 series.

 

Fast bowlers look at speed readings in the giant screens and check them after matches too ... and get demoralized if they seem lower than what is expected. Heard Bumrah and Archer talking about this as well as Ranji Trophy pacers.

 

Fair speed readings for both sides is something that is expected in every match. 

this is surprising and shocking if true. Ridiculous to understand why would someone do that.

[express bowling]

38 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

 

What could be the reason for showing lesser speeds for genuine pacers like Saini,Bumrah,Shami and higher for medium fasts Broad,Anderson?

 

 

Could be a case of foreigners managing the speed gun aspects for the broadcasters ... And the BCCI not paying attention to the fallacy.

 

Really quick looking yorkers by Bumrah clocking around 130 kph, does not look right. One cannot hide the release speed of a yorker because there is no pitch involvement to add the skid factor or bounce factor and create an illusion of speed.

 

 

Quote

Marketing home pacers is good thing which every board does,wonder why BCCI doesn't do it or pays less attention to it?

Why they look down to pace?

 

I think the BCCI website shows Shami as Fast-medium. So, they are not thinking about marketing all our quick bowlers.

 

Just observe the amount of focus that Archer and Stone are getting from the broadcaster. One might think that Marshall and Holding are bowling. Compare this to Indian quicks. Bumrah bowled a fastest of 149 kph in the Chennai heat and was averaging 139 k+ after 25 overs. Bowled some 140 k+ balls in his last spell too, while bowling his 34th to 36th overs. But the broadcasters did not highlight any of this. 

 

This has been happening from the IPL 2020. Young U19 sensation Tyagi is bowling well but commentators talking about Cummins or Archer. How they stand and how they fart. 

 

And not just pace bowling. We are seeing how Leach and Foakes practice about ten times a day. But how much have we heard about Axar and Kuldeep, our new spinners for this match ?

 

BCCI is not looking at actively marketing either our fast bowlers or our young players.

 

The indifferent approach of the broadcasters, towards Indian quicks and Indian youngsters, needs to be looked at.

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

dont think bowling 10-12 overs in an innings would drain these international level fast bowlers.. also at ahmedabad it will be anderson and archer. 

 

Agree.

 

Too little bowling is more harmful for pacers than too much bowling.