Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Suhaan]

6 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Prasidh seems to be having the knack of picking wickets.. much needed in our team where bowlers like Bhuvi, Chahal play for their places and don't look for wickets.. he will very expensive at times.. we need to be mindful of that

Yes picking wickets is most important,he may go for plenty in some games

We don't need to go after him on his bad days

[Vk1]

as @express bowling bro and others have mentioned this multiple times.. we need to make our odi/t20 attacks multi-dimensional.. have a yorker/death overs specialist ( Bumrah ), early swing ( siraj/chahar/shami ) , hit the deck/bounce ( prasidh/ backup ? ), wrist spinner + allrounder( seamer or spinner)..  hit the deck tall bowler was missing and Prasidh is definitely a good addition.. not sure about his batting skills

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

 

Obviously,it is a well known fact

But even in tests there are peak spells where bowlers bowl with peak steam and manage their energy throughout the day's play

Prasidh prior to this used to bowl in excess of 145 in his peak spells,no one expects him to bowl all his 60 deliveries at 140 but atleast his initial burst/when the ball gets little old, to be in 140s 

Else Good opposition will find it quite easy to score runs against

When the ball is new i can understand he may have thrived for swing,but when it gets old pace comes into the picture

Middle overs will decide between batting shootouts,that is where trundling has lost its mojo and will be eventually gone in days to come from modern loi cricket,good that he is using bounce though

 

 

Exactly !

 

Fastest balls in the 144 k to 148 k range and average speeds ( excluding slower balls ) in the 137 k to 141 k range ... is something Bumrah, Umesh and even Shami have achieved for multiple years.

 

Prasidh bowling at an average speed of 134 k with a fsstest of 143 k, in only the 5th ODI of his career, is poor speeds and poor effort / intensity.

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Exactly !

 

Fastest balls in the 144 k to 148 k range and average speeds ( excluding slower balls ) in the 137 k to 141 k range ... is something Bumrah, Umesh and even Shami have achieved for multiple years.

 

Prasidh bowling at an average speed of 134 k with a fsstest of 143 k, in only the 5th ODI of his career, is poor speeds and poor effort / intensity.

It's his 5th ODI that's why. None of Bumrah, Shami, Yadav bowled that pace early in their career. Only once they settled down and gained confidence and control. Prasidh anyway isn't a 90 mph bowler. He only bowls fast when he runs fast and that leads to loss of control in his case. 135-143 is good pace for him as he is a bounce bowler and should not bowl too many full good length balls as they are harmless. He may not become a good test bowler but a decent ODI bowler.

Edited February 7, 2022 by rkt.india

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

It's his 5th ODI that's why. None of Bumrah, Shami, Yadav bowled that pace early in their career. Only once they settled down and gained confidence and control.

Hope so ,he gains confidence and bowls with full effort

He looked struggling with his runup yesterday

[rkt.india]

Just now, Suhaan said:

Hope so ,he gains confidence and bowls with full effort

He looked struggling with his runup yesterday

Shami became quick only after 2016.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Vk1 said:

Prasidh seems to be having the knack of picking wickets.. much needed in our team where bowlers like Bhuvi, Chahal play for their places and don't look for wickets.. he will very expensive at times.. we need to be mindful of that

 

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

Yes picking wickets is most important,he may go for plenty in some games

We don't need to go after him on his bad days

 

 

Prasidh has the ability to pick wickets against the run of play. Nothing is happening and he will suddenly get a ball to bounce steeply and get the edge.  

 

In his last 2 ODIs we have seen quite a few edges lob up off short balls and fall in no man's land.

 

The TM need to value this aspect and give him support.

 

I strongly believe that if Prasidh was there in tests in South Africa, we could have won at least 1 more test. He was making vd Dussen hop and jump almost every other ball in the 3rd ODI. And he was one of the  batters who stood in our way in the last 2 tests.

Edited February 7, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

34 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Shami became quick only after 2016.

 

 

Shami always had the ability to bowl quickest balls at 144 k to 146 k. He touched 146 k in his debut test series.

 

His average speed and ability to sustain speeds throughout the day increased in 2016.

 

 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Vk1 said:

Prasidh seems to be having the knack of picking wickets.. much needed in our team where bowlers like Bhuvi, Chahal play for their places and don't look for wickets.. he will very expensive at times.. we need to be mindful of that

You are acting like top bowlers aren't expensive in odi. 

 

Starc bymrah Cummins and even boult ll average 32 plus in odi vs top sides. 

 

Only shami and rabada average under 28. 

[Jay]

51 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

Prasidh has the ability to pick wickets against the run of play. Nothing is happening an he will suddenly get a ball to bounce steeply and get the edge.  

 

In his last 2 ODIs we have seen quite a few edges lob up off short balls and fall in no man's land.

 

The TM need to value this aspect and give him support.

 

I strongly believe that if Prasidh was there in tests in South Africa, we could have won at least 1 more test. He was making vd Dussen hop and jump almost every other ball in the 3rd ODI. And he was one of the  batters who stood in our way in the last 2 tests.

He is a good talent. Just needs to stick to his strengths I. Bounce. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

It's his 5th ODI that's why. None of Bumrah, Shami, Yadav bowled that pace early in their career. Only once they settled down and gained confidence and control. Prasidh anyway isn't a 90 mph bowler. He only bowls fast when he runs fast and that leads to loss of control in his case. 135-143 is good pace for him as he is a bounce bowler and should not bowl too many full good length balls as they are harmless. He may not become a good test bowler but a decent ODI bowler.

 

 

Umesh was quick in the beginning of his career.

 

Bumrah was too young.  He gained pace as his body became stronger.

 

Prasidh is already 25. This is the ideal age for bowling at peak pace.

 

And there isn't enough sample size to suggest that Prasidh loses accuracy if he runs in hard. This is the kind of logic that led to Indians cutting down pace. He has to practice bowling accurately after running in hard.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by express bowling

[Vk1]

31 minutes ago, Jay said:

You are acting like top bowlers aren't expensive in odi. 

 

Starc bymrah Cummins and even boult ll average 32 plus in odi vs top sides. 

 

Only shami and rabada average under 28. 

I am in favor of Prasidh.. if you misinterpreted my post

[Mesky99]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Shami became quick only after 2016.

Umesh and Varun were hitting 140kph from their first game itself, varuns first 5 wickets were all clean bowled against eng, even dinda would hit 140 kph, prasidh will soon  be happy bowling at 135kph and that's not what India want right, issues with his runup, rhythm need to be sorted quickly.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Mesky99

[Mosher]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Umesh was quick in the beginning of his career.

 

Bumrah was too young.  He gained pace as his body became stronger.

 

Prasidh is already 25. This is the ideal age for bowling at peak pace.

 

And there isn't enough sample size to suggest that Prasidh loses accuracy if he runs in hard. This is the kind of logic that led to Indians cutting down pace. He has to practice bowling accurately after running in hard.

 

 

 

 

IIRC Umesh was 140+ in his debut IPL match itself.

[SandeepMotta]

One look at Prasidh yesterday and you felt the "concentrate on line and length and not pace" malise seems to be back in Indian cricket. We have already seen Dravid's preference for trundlers and if Mahmbrey is from the same school of thought then God  help Indian cricket.

 

Also, the Indian u19 team win showed how Dravid was given hell a lot more credit for the win than what he should have considering the team he had at his disposal. This time we see the media giving a lot of credit to VVS while we hardly see any mention on kanitkar who is actually the coach of the team.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, SandeepMotta said:

One look at Prasidh yesterday and you felt the "concentrate on line and length and not pace" malise seems to be back in Indian cricket. We have already seen Dravid's preference for trundlers and if Mahmbrey is from the same school of thought then God  help Indian cricket.

 

Also, the Indian u19 team win showed how Dravid was given hell a lot more credit for the win than what he should have considering the team he had at his disposal. This time we see the media giving a lot of credit to VVS while we hardly see any mention on kanitkar who is actually the coach of the team.

Dravid made that u19 team. They didn't fall from the sky. He created the system.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Mosher said:

IIRC Umesh was 140+ in his debut IPL match itself.

So was Prasidh.

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Mesky99 said:

Umesh and Varun were hitting 140kph from their first game itself, varuns first 5 wickets were all clean bowled against eng, even dinda would hit 140 kph, prasidh will soon  be happy bowling at 135kph and that's not what India want right, issues with his runup, rhythm need to be sorted quickly.

So is Prasidh hitting 140s and not every ball was 140. Aaron bowled around 136-142 in his debut series against England. I had watched that live. Umesh debuted in Zimbabwe and bowled 138-140. Vaise to even Prasidh has bowled 150 in iPl but pressure of playing for India in international games is completely different. One bad game and you can be out for long. So it's up to a player what he is comfortable doing at and can also do well.

[Lone Wolf]

Yeah Shami was round about 130-132 kph when he came..  I remember in aane do series..  He became quicker during 2015 WC & started bowling around close to 140 consistently.  Upped his pace further after that & became a lot more skiddy & quick. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

2 hours ago, SandeepMotta said:

One look at Prasidh yesterday and you felt the "concentrate on line and length and not pace" malise seems to be back in Indian cricket. We have already seen Dravid's preference for trundlers and if Mahmbrey is from the same school of thought then God  help Indian cricket.

 

Also, the Indian u19 team win showed how Dravid was given hell a lot more credit for the win than what he should have considering the team he had at his disposal. This time we see the media giving a lot of credit to VVS while we hardly see any mention on kanitkar who is actually the coach of the team.

Err Dravid tok over as the coach of u-19 and A teams in June 2015. That 2018 team was literally him getting them picking from u16 levels and getting them ready for the 2018 WC  Making the u-19s play vs Board President's 11 with senior international players  or vs U-23s was his way of toughening them up. Plus at least 18-20 preparatory matches all over the world.

 

Criticize him for his decisions as the national coach but he was the best ever persy mentoring u-19 and A team players.