Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Suhaan]

3 minutes ago, Pollack said:

The question is how did he come into reckoning out of the blue? 

VHT and SMAT, according to stats, he was decent but not the best. 

Because he embraced Trundlism from Tearawayism

[speedracer]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

I know I already responded (i.e., the bruce lee vs jackie chan tongue-in-cheek post), but I wanted to share a bit more of a down-to-earth post

 

In a nutstell, I'm a bit too old and jaded than many of the usual posters. Hence, most (but not all) times I see such tangents arise, I find them amusing and droll as long as they don't cross unacceptable lines; for the most part, this one didn't IMO.

 

with that said, I do feel a bit sorry for @express bowling that the thread got diverted temporarily. however, all 3 of us veterans of ICF know that this 1400+ page thread has witnessed some diversions before.

 

this seems like a good occasion to congratulate @express bowling and all the regular posters (e.g., @Mosher @raki05 @Suhaan @rkt.india @Vilander ) on this wonderful thread. I am old enough to remember the hype around Pandurang Salgaonkar (who was low 130s perhaps on avg page), and getting to Umran (with 145+ avg pace) has been a great journey. this thread must keep going as long as ICF continues because fast bowling is the life blood of cricket; it's what gets the adrenaline going, gets the spectators pumped, gets the batters rattled, and raises the morale of the fielding team. fast bowling is the beating heart of cricket, which has often lain dormant, but every now and then blooms to give a rare flower.

 

some of the regular posters could, in all seriousness, moonlight as talent scouts and/or advisors. in science (my domain), quite a few major projects have involved either large collaborations or have relied on citizen science. it is interesting to speculate about how much more quickly fast bowling may develop in India if, say, a similar approach were to be employed, and the pace bowling talent sought out and harnessed to the fullest.

 

thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Awesome stuff. Sorry to derail this sacred earlier. I do get riled up if someone underrates the talent we possess in India. 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Pollack said:

The question is how did he come into reckoning out of the blue? 

VHT and SMAT, according to stats, he was decent but not even close the best. 

Many of the front runners are/were injured...Prasidh, Mohsin, Khaleel, Kuldeep, Yash Dayal.
K Tyagi is not playing regularly.
Unadkut and Mukesh Kumar already are in mix. 

One thing which probably went in his favour that he's playing at lead pacer for UP alongside Ankit Rajpoot.
 

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, Vijy said:

I know I already responded (i.e., the bruce lee vs jackie chan tongue-in-cheek post), but I wanted to share a bit more of a down-to-earth post

 

In a nutstell, I'm a bit too old and jaded than many of the usual posters. Hence, most (but not all) times I see such tangents arise, I find them amusing and droll as long as they don't cross unacceptable lines; for the most part, this one didn't IMO.

 

with that said, I do feel a bit sorry for @express bowling that the thread got diverted temporarily. however, all 3 of us veterans of ICF know that this 1400+ page thread has witnessed some diversions before.

 

this seems like a good occasion to congratulate @express bowling and all the regular posters (e.g., @Mosher @raki05 @Suhaan @rkt.india @Vilander ) on this wonderful thread. I am old enough to remember the hype around Pandurang Salgaonkar (who was low 130s perhaps on avg page), and getting to Umran (with 145+ avg pace) has been a great journey. this thread must keep going as long as ICF continues because fast bowling is the life blood of cricket; it's what gets the adrenaline going, gets the spectators pumped, gets the batters rattled, and raises the morale of the fielding team. fast bowling is the beating heart of cricket, which has often lain dormant, but every now and then blooms to give a rare flower.

 

some of the regular posters could, in all seriousness, moonlight as talent scouts and/or advisors. in science (my domain), quite a few major projects have involved either large collaborations or have relied on citizen science. it is interesting to speculate about how much more quickly fast bowling may develop in India if, say, a similar approach were to be employed, and the pace bowling talent sought out and harnessed to the fullest.

 

thanks for coming to my TED talk.

I first read about Salgaonkar in a cricket magzine somewere in 1997-1998....he was a menacing fast bowler during 1971-76 and he also broke Gavaskar's finger while bowling a fast short pitch delivery.
That article was about dismissing the myth that India don't have fast bowlers...author mentioned his name along with some other fast bowlers like Kailash Gattani, Obaid Kamaal, Rajesh Yadav (brother of Shivlal Yadav etc) who were quicker than Kapil Dev, Manoj Prabhakar, Venkatesh Prasad but never got chances due to the ignorance of our selectors. Dennis Lillee was involved in MRF at that time and he was surprised to see the potential that Indian quicks had. 

Unfortunately, we could never harness that potential on a regular basis. our bowling attack at times show brilliance only to fade away under pressure. 2003 WC our trio was amongst wickets only to choke away in the finals. Same story repeated in 2015 WC as well.
We got our best bowling period when the trio of Bumrah, Shami, Ishant/Umesh were in full form during 2016-2020...but sadly with current setup it seems we're going back to the era of trundlers. 

[tapandrun]

Both Mavi and Nagarkoti were way down the ladder to be picked for Ind team, injuries to most of other bowlers who were ahead of them led to Mavi's inclusion.

 

But looks like this set-up sees something in 130ish bowler that other can't see/understand, else its v.hard to explain inclusion of Unadkat, Mukesh and Mavi all at the same time from no where of reckoning.

 Mavi was not even in top 15 wkt takers in SMAT 2022, so can not say he was awarded for Domestic showings 

 

Mavi and Mukesh in T20 looks like pace holder for Bhuvi till the dust settles and ppl forgets his Asia cup and WC semi finals and how toothless and thoughtless he was during those series

Edited January 5, 2023 by tapandrun

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Both Mavi and Nagarkoti were way down the ladder to be picked for Ind team, injuries to most of other bowlers who were ahead of them led to Mavi's inclusion.

 

But looks like this set-up sees something in 130ish bowler that other can't see/understand, else its v.hard to explain inclusion of Unadkat, Mukesh and Mavi all at the same time from no where of reckoning.

 Mavi was not even in top 15 wkt takers in SMAT 2022, so can not say he was awarded for Domestic showings 

 

Mavi and Mukesh in T20 looks like pace holder for Bhuvi till the dust settles and ppl forgets his Asia cup and WC semi finals and how toothless and thoughtless he was during those series

Mavi is not known as 130ish bowler. he is known as a genuine quick. you cant blame selectors for his low pace. responsibility lies on him. guy emerged as someone bowling 145K in u19 wc. Nagarkoti still  hits 145 but see,s like he has decided to bowl below his ability.

Edited January 5, 2023 by rkt.india

[Lone Wolf]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Mavi is not known as 130ish bowler. he is known as a genuine quick. you cant blame selectors for his low pace. responsibility lies on him.

That 4fer will mean he will religiously adopt Boobie philosophy & will continue to float the ball & stop hitting the pitch hard

[singhvivek141]

11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Mavi is not known as 130ish bowler. he is known as a genuine quick. you cant blame selectors for his low pace. responsibility lies on him. guy emerged as someone bowling 145K in u19 wc. Nagarkoti still  hits 145 but see,s like he has decided to bowl below his ability.

He is quickly joining the school of Munaf Patel....who was a 140's bowler when started but after injuries started to trundle at 125kph.
I have a feeling that Mavi has succumb to the injuries and has decided to protect his body by bowling in late 120's to mid 130's. As he is relatively injury free from last 1 year or more, so it seems to be working for him.

I am worried that if he gets some success then this infectious trend will spread to other quicks as well.

[Pollack]

45 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Mavi is not known as 130ish bowler. he is known as a genuine quick. you cant blame selectors for his low pace. responsibility lies on him. guy emerged as someone bowling 145K in u19 wc. Nagarkoti still  hits 145 but see,s like he has decided to bowl below his ability.

He used to touch 145 but mostly around 140 and used to drop speed at times if I remember.  Nagarkoti was the more consistent one in speeds. 

[Lone Wolf]

Must read article for fast bowling fans...  This is why Dale Steyn was such a blessing for Umran @Mosher @express bowling @Suhaan @Vijy

 

[Mesky99]

Don't know why fans are surprised seeing mavi bowl these speeds, bowling quick requires solid fitness and strength, to carry on bowling quick in all formats requires a certain physique which obviously mavi lacks, many Indian bowlers for a short period bowled briskly, rp Singh, sreesanth, munaf, nehra etc none of them ever got stronger and nor did they grow the right muscles, bowling quick would have meant injuries due to lack of strength hence all adapted medium pace, it's the same with mavi, he is a medium pacer who gets it to shape a bit, lacks height, bit of a floater, not sure how he has jumped the line ahead of other bowlers, let's say he puts on another 10kph in his bowling even at best his ceiling is quite low, unless he starts generating pace of the pitch and becomes a bit of a specialist with the old ball he can do decently at home in test matches.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Must read article for fast bowling fans...  This is why Dale Steyn was such a blessing for Umran @Mosher @express bowling @Suhaan @Vijy

 

steyn

s great. not only a great bowler himself, but also good understanding of technical aspects and also a supportive guy

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, speedracer said:

Awesome stuff. Sorry to derail this sacred earlier. I do get riled up if someone underrates the talent we possess in India. 

I didn't mind it much... found it rather amusing to be honest. we are back on track now

[express bowling]

54 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

Don't know why fans are surprised seeing mavi bowl these speeds, bowling quick requires solid fitness and strength, to carry on bowling quick in all formats requires a certain physique which obviously mavi lacks, many Indian bowlers for a short period bowled briskly, rp Singh, sreesanth, munaf, nehra etc none of them ever got stronger and nor did they grow the right muscles, bowling quick would have meant injuries due to lack of strength hence all adapted medium pace, it's the same with mavi, he is a medium pacer who gets it to shape a bit, lacks height, bit of a floater, not sure how he has jumped the line ahead of other bowlers, let's say he puts on another 10kph in his bowling even at best his ceiling is quite low, unless he starts generating pace of the pitch and becomes a bit of a specialist with the old ball he can do decently at home in test matches.

 

 

Indian pacers losing speed was a thing of the 2000s decade.  Hasn't happened since 2011. We are seeing SA and Pakistani pacers lose pace these days.  Rabada, Ngidi, Parnell, Hassan Ali,  Naseem in tests, Dahani.

 

Mavi is such a case after 12 years in India. 

[Mesky99]

30 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Ranji schedule is also poor,pacers have to bowl within themselves else will get injured.

Yhh, I don't blame mavi adapting to medium pace, remaining fit and getting game time is his first priority, don't think he is going to ball quick anytime soon, tyagi and sen need to be looked after, both need to put on more muscle and get stronger, a couple of injuries and they to will go down the mavi way.

[Forward Defence]

Arshdeep in for Harshal. Good.

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Must read article for fast bowling fans...  This is why Dale Steyn was such a blessing for Umran @Mosher @express bowling @Suhaan @Vijy

 

Mhambrey has done zilch,if you read these articles

Must be some elite purvjanm karma that he is reaping rewards for, in this life(for mostly yawning in the chair)

 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Pollack said:

He used to touch 145 but mostly around 140 and used to drop speed at times if I remember.  Nagarkoti was the more consistent one in speeds. 

he bowled really fast after u19 wc.  he played India A and bowled faster than Saini and other Aus A bowlers likes of Jhy Richardson and that 6 feet 8 inch bowler who played for SRH a few years back. and after that he suffered injuries.

[speedracer]

Is everyone really happy with arshdeep ? Performance in odi is quite disappointing to me so far. Doesn't generate bounce consistently. 

[speedracer]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

he bowled really fast after u19 wc.  he played India A and bowled faster than Saini and other Aus A bowlers likes of Jhy Richardson and that 6 feet 8 inch bowler who played for SRH a few years back. and after that he suffered injuries.

Billy Stanlake?