Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Chakdephatte]

6 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

/\ fat rahi hai sabki. The jealousy is evident. And the politics is out there for everyone to witness.

 

Don't trust these random twiiterati. They pick one line out of full interview to sensationalize. 

[prudent_kreeda]

https://twitter.com/SumerViratian/status/1616813765449908225/photo/1

 

Lets hope for  fully fit Boom !

Enjoyment of watching india bowling with Boom is something else.

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

During this interview, Umran looked 2-3 inches taller than Shami.

 

I was telling you that Umran is atleast 5'10" and maybe even 5'11". He is clearly taller than Kohli.

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

/\ fat rahi hai sabki. The jealousy is evident. And the politics is out there for everyone to witness.

 

 

Exactly RAFbhai  !

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

/\ fat rahi hai sabki. The jealousy is evident. And the politics is out there for everyone to witness.

 

46 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Exactly RAFbhai  !

Reply from same thread,aplog ho kya or someone else from us

 

[speedracer]

27 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

 

Reply from same thread,aplog ho kya or someone else from us

 

Lol shami sounds like a bitch

[Lone Wolf]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

/\ fat rahi hai sabki. The jealousy is evident. And the politics is out there for everyone to witness.

Now we know why he sometimes bowls within himself... Why are they forcing an Express pacer for a line length stuff??  You got Boobies & Chahars for that. 

Umran is fairly accurate than Tait or Shoaib clearly.  Even Rauf for that matter. 

We need someone like Allan Donald or Steyn in our set up... These guys have no idea how express fast bowling works. 

[Mesky99]

5 hours ago, speedracer said:

Hard to say. To my naked eye and after having spoken to my unkills, they feel sri and also Donald were the fastest in 90s as far as main bowlers.

However, Nante Hayward was the quickest of them all in 90s. 

The English fella is the other one who was rapid. Devon or whatever his name is

Devon Malcom was rapid but played in a wrong era for England, it was all about being privately educated, middle class background that mattered then for the englsih, Brett Schultz was probably the quickest left armer ever, he had a short career but strongly built guy, before his injury Brad Williams was a express pacer, according to some Aussie experts he was quicker and more hostile than lee, ngam another one, similar action as Donald

[Vilander]

Need a steyn or Lee near umran and other recent Indian quicks at least in IPL hope one of the franchisees or bcci make it happen. 

[Suhaan]

57 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Now we know why he sometimes bowls within himself... Why are they forcing an Express pacer for a line length stuff??  You got Boobies & Chahars for that. 

Umran is fairly accurate than Tait or Shoaib clearly.  Even Rauf for that matter. 

We need someone like Allan Donald or Steyn in our set up... These guys have no idea how express fast bowling works. 

Steyn's words -You are meant to be a Ferrari,

Has a deep meaning for others to comprehend,dehati Shamis and Ashok malmutras aren't in that scale

[Lone Wolf]

22 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Steyn's words -You are meant to be a Ferrari,

Has a deep meaning for others to comprehend,dehati Shamis and Ashok malmutras aren't in that scale

I think even Tom Moody said the same that Umran isn't made for line length stuff on Cricinfo I guess...  It's clear that foreigners have better idea than Mhambrey's or Shami. 

 

Bharat Arun was an exception he recently said by watching Umran he feels he can go 3-4ks faster than current speed.  His mentality was different than rest of these coaches & legends 

[tapandrun]

 

Express bowlers are not meant to be line-length bowler, there is a different aspect of it. They many develop a good channel later in the career, but to start with all lacks control.

 

If Umran is being asked to cut down on pace and work on Line-length then this shows lack of knowledge among the coaching staff and think tank. Akhhar was wayward all his career, Lee started as a bowler with not so good at controlling line and lenght. For an Aus bowler its v.uncommon, they are taught line and length and holding a channel for longer period of times, this is how their cricket has been. Tait was wild thing all his life. 

 

Saw Arun's interview there is nothing new, its all Ian Pont has been saying for years and working with the upcoming bowlers all over the world -V.renowned personality.

Few technical things can up speeds by 4-5 km - Which I think was/is discussed by few in this tread too.

 

Signs are this TM and coaching staff will never let Umran achieve his potential, there is a big difference between an express and fast bowler.

Umran is not bowling upto his IPL speeds in T20Is. If they want him to bowl slow, then there is no point of having x-factor. 145 kmph is not x-factor. 145 kmph is -fast, uncomfortable at time yes, but not x-factor.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by tapandrun

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

 

Express bowlers are not meant to be line-length bowler, there is a different aspect of it. They many develop a good channel later in the career, but to start with all lacks control.

 

If Umran is being asked to cut down on pace and work on Line-length then this shows lack of knowledge among the coaching staff and think tank. Akhhar was wayward all his career, Lee started as a bowler as not so good at controlling line and lenght. For an Aus bowler its v.uncommon, they are taught line and length and holding a channel for longer period of times, this is how their cricket has been. Tait was wild thing all his life. 

 

Saw Arun's interview there is nothing new, its all Ian Pont has been saying for years and working with the upcoming bowlers all over the world -V.renowned personality.

Few technical things can up speeds by 4-5 km - Which I think was/is discussed by few in this tread too.

 

Signs are this TM and coaching staff will never let Umran achieve his potential, there is a big difference between an express and fast bowler.

Umran is not bowling upto his IPL speeds in T20Is. If they want him to bowl slow, then there is no point of having x-factor. 145 kmph is not x-factor. 145 kmph is -fast, uncomfortable at time yes, but not x-factor.

 

 

Hopefully Steyn sorts this out and gives accurate info to Umran.  Umran I guess knows little about fast bowling or his body as he was very raw.  IPL couldn't come sooner for Umran. 

 

To my understanding these guys want Umran to bowl around 145-146kph consistently on a channel..  With a occasional 150.

This is dangerous as well almost wasting his natural ability.

BCCI is one Incompetent organization who can't bring a specialist for this role. 

His field sets indicate TM has no clue about how to use him hence they are benching him. 

 

Overall Umran is getting wasted in Indian team without proper guidance. 

 

[Lone Wolf]

RCB's quality scouting & use of tech & latest means might enable Avinash to at least touch 150k.  Very excited to see him. 

I don't want current TM to get wind of these guys tbh. 

They have successfully done this to Mavi & I am now kinda relieved Tyagi is not with them. 

Kuldeep Sen was next on radar.  He bowled brilliantly in BD but Rohit's reaction after those 2 sixes indicated he will not be seen again.  They will also ask him to follow Bhuvi bhaiya & Shami bhai advice. 

[Lord]

There is nothing wrong in what Shami said. He praised Umran's pace and told to add accuracy along with it, not cut down pace.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

7 minutes ago, Lord said:

There is nothing wrong in what Shami said. He praised Umran's pace and told to add accuracy along with it, not cut down pace.

 

 

During IPL Shami was asked similar thing he said Pace is not everything but line length matters.  He endorsed Mohsin over Umran...  It was in cricinfo I think.  

 

The line length crap is spoon fed to Umran daily via SM & legends  coaches.   These guys have zero clue about express bowling. 

Express bowlers at Umran's age are spray guns.  Lockie was too,  So was Shoaib,  So was Rauf,  so was Lee. 

They all matured with time.  Umran can't even set his own fields..  He is that raw. 

Clueless captain gives him 2 fielders at deep fine leg & square leg...  Outside of PP shows he has no idea either. 

Nothing left to say here. 

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

During IPL Shami was asked similar thing he said Pace is not everything but line length matters.  He endorsed Mohsin over Umran...  It was in cricinfo I think.  

 

The line length crap is spoon fed to Umran daily via SM & legends  coaches.   These guys have zero clue about express bowling. 

Express bowlers at Umran's age are spray guns.  Lockie was too,  So was Shoaib,  So was Rauf,  so was Lee. 

They all matured with time.  Umran can't even set his own fields..  He is that raw. 

Clueless captain gives him 2 fielders at deep fine leg & square leg...  Outside of PP shows he has no idea either. 

Nothing left to say here. 

 

no he didnt pick Mohsin over Umran, though a fit Mohsin indeed ticks more boxes than Umran for ODIs. Its not like he's a trundler, he toucher 150 IIRC in IPL too.

 

See the interview. Even while describing his own wickets, he's stressing upon importance of line and length. All great bowlers would. Its wrong to assume they are telling to cut down on pace and focus only on line and length. Both can happen.

 

They all matured due to seniors advice only. If they already have pace obviously thing left is to add control with it and thats what he said.

[Vilander]

On 1/22/2023 at 12:55 PM, Lord said:

There is nothing wrong in what Shami said. He praised Umran's pace and told to add accuracy along with it, not cut down pace.

 

 

the point is Shami was a Fast bowler now fast medium. He is a fine bowler but not express. Umran has potential to be one, and Shami does not have the skill set to help Umran there. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Vilander

[prudent_kreeda]

My 2 cents on Shami -Umran talk-  I do concur many of with Shami's points.

 

1. Even express bowler has to bowl the line & length with control & precision to get wickets and be a constant threat-  the Good Length ball has to pitch around off stump be it an outswinger /inswing to get lbw , to nick . If you want to get wicket by  a bumper then line & length has to be such that it should be at head level and batter has no space to free his arms coupled with pace. What is the point of pace if guy comes and sprays it down leg side or bowls wide of stump, Full toss , chest level shorter stuff . We do not want Samis , merediths of the world.

2. There is an optimum pace at which you bowl with decent control ball after ball for each bowler. One needs to start from that pace and then starts upping the pace , will be able to maintain control and also add 4-5 K  to his speed as time goes by. That will come may be after 1-1.5 years of constant bowling. You cannot make someone bowling at 135 to go to 142-145 and expect him to be performing well . most probably he will lose all and may be get injured. 

 

Umran has improved a lot in control aspect from what we saw in last IPL. Now 144-147 seems to be his optimum pace with control. From hereon with more matches he can add another 4 k minimum without losing any control. That will come later .

Not saying he should not bowl quick , try in the nets and also may be try it with bumper first in matches too. Also try an over in a match and 1-2 deliveries in an over just to see how it goes as of now.

If Umran was the same as in last IPL , he would present at least 2-3 balls every over to hit boundaries and he would have been  forgotten by now as no TM will persist for too long if team loses matches due to him.   

We are seeing the benefits of control in ODI now and this will be a great asset when he becomes a test match bowler ( still a WIP - and will get hit at times as he is just straight with no deviation with his fullish balls and average bumper)  

I think he should really pick the tricks from Siraj than Shami- 

If we analyse Umran's bowling - most of boundaries hit are from fullish balls on stumps or shorter stuff which does not go towards head with no width to batter.  

He should learn how to bring the ball in or hold it its line - This will make batters watch for ball deviating at that pace and the boundary will start drying up. 

Second - Just clone how Siraj bowls the bumper . Siraj may not be the fastest but most batters get hurried in their shot when he bowls  bumper and it is directed at the head of the batter at very good pace. May be he is bowling with highest intensity when it is bumper .

Umran's bumper is not that good - does not rise upto head level and not scary as of now. This must be the ball he should bowl with highest intensity so that ball rises to head level with no width to hit and rears up real quick.   

I am sure he can get outswinger going with help from Styne at SRH, he was master of it . To note , Styen bowled at less speed with new ball to get outswing and later on would go full tilt with older ball.

I am still hopeful with Styen at SRH , with the control he has achieved so far , he can go to next level by adding another 4-5 K and bowl at 147-150 without loosing control a lot and then bowl some thunderbolts at 150-154. Would be great if that happens by 2014.  

 

 

 

[prudent_kreeda]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

During IPL Shami was asked similar thing he said Pace is not everything but line length matters.  He endorsed Mohsin over Umran...  It was in cricinfo I think.  

 

The line length crap is spoon fed to Umran daily via SM & legends  coaches.   These guys have zero clue about express bowling. 

Express bowlers at Umran's age are spray guns.  Lockie was too,  So was Shoaib,  So was Rauf,  so was Lee. 

They all matured with time.  Umran can't even set his own fields..  He is that raw. 

Clueless captain gives him 2 fielders at deep fine leg & square leg...  Outside of PP shows he has no idea either. 

Nothing left to say here. 

 20 year old Bret Lee in Debut series   . Look at the pace , control , skill sets at that age . Insane . -scary bouncers , reverse swing , in duckers , slower ones , snorter at great pace. A complete exhibition of great execution .