Pujara's career is over?

[Ankit_sharma03]

19 minutes ago, CG said:

He leaves well outside offstump on some green pitches in odis.Problem is when he goes for front foot defence and his stride is not big enough initially.

Green pitches in Odi when did u see such pitches. 

Thats something of thing that doesnt exist in odi

The only pitches with some movement in last few yrs in odi were in Sa n Nz where he failed . 

 

Leaving few balls and slashing 1 which causes ur dismissal is of no point . His problem is he plays away from body which causes him problem both against ball coming in or going out.

 

But every batsman has a issue u have to find way to score runs, he hasnt found a way .

Edited August 14, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[CG]

Green pitches in Odi when did u see such pitches. 

Thats something of thing that doesnt exist in odi

The only pitches with some movement in last few yrs in odi were in Sa n Nz where he failed . 

 

Leaving few balls and slashing 1 which causes ur dismissal is of no point . His problem is he plays away from body which causes him problem both against ball coming in or going out.

 

But every batsman has a issue u have to find way to score runs, he hasnt found a way .

May be you missed some on last wi tour .You do not average near 60 in fc if you do not have defence.His dismissals mostly have been due to poor shot selection rather than a set pattern.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, CG said:

May be you missed some on last wi tour .You do not average near 60 in fc if you do not have defence.His dismissals mostly have been due to poor shot selection rather than a set pattern.

He didnt score any big on the Wi tour all starts resulting not converted and again teams like Wi n SL will never test u like top teams.

Its not only shot selection many times he has failed to pick the movement of the ball completely and lot of times read the wrong line. He plays far away from the body something u can get away in Odi due to slips not being standing for long. But in test it is there for long.

All this errors can be discussed in number the point is he is a failure in test cricket. Last 15 test avg of 22 is pathetic. 

Lets not even compare our Fc cricket which has highest wkt takers like Vinay kumar, Krishna das .........

Doesnt matter if he avg 60 or 70 in int cricket his test record has been abysmal to say the least. 

 

About his defense when u play away from the body and u cant reach the ball ur body looses balances. Look at his head position in all dismissals and the basic of batting n bowling is head position.

 

This is not a good defense, its an ugly position

[Texan]

I am really a little baffled at how much outrage dropping of Pujara has caused here than that of Vijay. To me, Vijay's performances in Tests over the last couple of years warrant that he must be picked for every match. He has performed in different conditions and looks more solid than even Pujara. I think the outrage with dropping Pujara has mkre to do with his replacement, Rohit who is seen as a proven failure in Test cricket. 

 

Now, lets be fair. Outside of Asia, Pujara has done precious little to warrant selection. His record outside Asia is not really setting the World on fire. The clamour for Pujara has more to do with the fact that changing the batting lineup to accommodate Rohit is not just causing other successful players like Kohli to fail, but also not getting any returns in the form of any contributions from Rohit. Personally, I feel Pujara should be picked ahead of Rohit simply because accommodating Rohit is causing further damage to the rest of the batting lineup since he is not a direct fit for the spot occupied by Pujara. And if we are playing at home, Pujara's home record should make him an automatic pick. However, Pujara also needs to pull up his socks and start contributing outside Asia as well whenever he is presented with a chance. He cannot just have a long international Test career by being a bully at home and a mouse abroad. I don't think this is the end of his career. He should get chances, but he also needs to understand that he needs to prove himself outside Asia. 

[CG]

He didnt score any big on the Wi tour all starts resulting not converted and again teams like Wi n SL will never test u like top teams.

Its not only shot selection many times he has failed to pick the movement of the ball completely and lot of times read the wrong line. He plays far away from the body something u can get away in Odi due to slips not being standing for long. But in test it is there for long.

All this errors can be discussed in number the point is he is a failure in test cricket. Last 15 test avg of 22 is pathetic. 

Lets not even compare our Fc cricket which has highest wkt takers like Vinay kumar, Krishna das .........

Doesnt matter if he avg 60 or 70 in int cricket his test record has been abysmal to say the least. 

 

About his defense when u play away from the body and u cant reach the ball ur body looses balances. Look at his head position in all dismissals and the basic of batting n bowling is head position.

 

This is not a good defense, its an ugly position

I was talking about some difficult odi pitches last wi tour where batting was tough particularly final where he left pretty well and when u tour abroad under lights in ODIs it's also difficult.Outside offstump everybody has problems be it Sachin or dravid.U have to take fc records as they are indicator .I have never seen anybody better there fc averages in history of circket bar few.Regarding defence I feel his front foot does not go far enough so he reaches out initially.Once he settles his footwork is improved .Overall I think his technique is all right it's more mental with him as it's what I do when u get in ia what matters not throwing away 40-50s

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, CG said:

I was talking about some difficult odi pitches last wi tour where batting was tough particularly final where he left pretty well and when u tour abroad under lights in ODIs it's also difficult.Outside offstump everybody has problems be it Sachin or dravid.U have to take fc records as they are indicator .I have never seen anybody better there fc averages in history of circket bar few.Regarding defence I feel his front foot does not go far enough so he reaches out initially.Once he settles his footwork is improved .Overall I think his technique is all right it's more mental with him as it's what I do when u get in ia what matters not throwing away 40-50s

Yes his technique is ok its not bad it is the front foot but there have been many issues when he hasnt picked the line of the ball n the movement . All of this added together is risky combination. 

As far Fc - jadeja has 3 -300 and his batting is a joke 

Yuvraj singh was one who played some brilliant knocks in ODI in tough condition also his 3-100s in test were also gr8 but again over all record

 

Test cricket is a diff beast, it test everything of urs. One thing he has to put in a lot of hard work and plan his game . I dont see either from him. In case of Vijay, rahane, kohli they all have changed stance n use of crease acc to crease but ull never notice that with rohit. Their is something called preparation again which is missing from his game. 

 

Problem with his game is not only front foot but many many things that are going against him and it reflects in his record. 

[express bowling]

Before being dropped in the last test vs. WI, starting from January 2014, Pujara has played 17 out of the 20  tests  played in this time. He was dropped for only 3 tests in succession in between.

 

In this time, this is how he has fared

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2010-2016	34	58	5	2482	206*	46.83	5149	48.20	7	7	2	300	5	Profile
filtered	2014-2016	17	30	1	892	145*	30.75	2104	42.39	1	3	2	105	3

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/32540.html?class=1;spanmin1=01+Jan+2014;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

 

 

I ,personally,   think that he still deserves a chance at no.3 because of his ability to play a lot of deliveries at the beginning of the innings and blunt the new ball,  play spin  well and his replacement is not good enough.

 

It must also be said that Pujara needs to play a couple of big innings in terms of runs and score runs more consistently. If he does that then it won't be possible to drop him.  Just 4 innings of 50+ out of 30, in the last two and a half years, is not you would ideally want from your no.3 batsman.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2016 by express bowling

[Brainfade]

52 minutes ago, Texan said:

I am really a little baffled at how much outrage dropping of Pujara has caused here than that of Vijay. To me, Vijay's performances in Tests over the last couple of years warrant that he must be picked for every match. He has performed in different conditions and looks more solid than even Pujara. I think the outrage with dropping Pujara has mkre to do with his replacement, Rohit who is seen as a proven failure in Test cricket. 

 

Now, lets be fair. Outside of Asia, Pujara has done precious little to warrant selection. His record outside Asia is not really setting the World on fire. The clamour for Pujara has more to do with the fact that changing the batting lineup to accommodate Rohit is not just causing other successful players like Kohli to fail, but also not getting any returns in the form of any contributions from Rohit. Personally, I feel Pujara should be picked ahead of Rohit simply because accommodating Rohit is causing further damage to the rest of the batting lineup since he is not a direct fit for the spot occupied by Pujara. And if we are playing at home, Pujara's home record should make him an automatic pick. However, Pujara also needs to pull up his socks and start contributing outside Asia as well whenever he is presented with a chance. He cannot just have a long international Test career by being a bully at home and a mouse abroad. I don't think this is the end of his career. He should get chances, but he also needs to understand that he needs to prove himself outside Asia. 

Absolutely.  Dropping Vijay was the problem.  He should've replaced Pujara with Vijay, sent Rahul at #3, and all ij vell.  

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, Moth2Flame said:

Absolutely.  Dropping Vijay was the problem.  He should've replaced Pujara with Vijay, sent Rahul at #3, and all ij vell.  

Dropping Vijay has outraged 99% of fans here. 

 

It is the inclusion of Rohit and Kohli moving up to  no.3 , although he is not comfortable there, that has also outraged a huge % of fans.  Even if Kohli wanted to drop Pujara....why was he not replaced by Vijay !!

Edited August 14, 2016 by express bowling

[maniac]

Let me put things into context....had pujara been out for a duck in the 2nd test....let us say we would have been 100 runs short thanks to his innings and the impact his dismissal would have had....which means we still would have had the extra time on the 4th day to pick atleast a 2-3 wickets more....getting 6 wickets is not even the same context as picking the last 3 which means we would have won that game comfortably even if we were a 100 runs short in the 1st innings.

 

now by the same context look at the 3rd test....rohit's Quickfire knock did have some impact in the way we could force a declaration and give ourselves a shot at winning the tests.

 

now yes stats are important too which Rohit seems to fall behind by a lot and Pujara has the numbers even though he might be not capable of playing a quick fire knock or an impact innings too often( I know the inning a in Srilanka will get mentioned but how often can he repeat that?)

 

now the ideal candidate should have both which is a no brainer but how many such players are available ?

 

so right now Kohli and Kumble's motive is to

force results and get as many victories under the belt...so these theories of Kohli protecting his bff etc are plain bs....No way Kohli can override Kumble here....which means playing Rohit was a well thought out desicion.

 

Impact innings doesn't mean a quick fire knock...what Vijay has done often blunting out the new ball can be considered as such too and there is a scope and role for Pujara on some pitches but if the objective here is to accumulate as many wins as possible against wi....then the option would be to put the game out of their reach and give our relatively weaker link which is bowling that additional time to take 20 wickets.

 

Rohit may not have the numbers but he certainly has the reputation so I don't see any wrong in utilizing him over Pujara who currently seems to have only 1 gear.

 

Pujara's career is not over, in the context of this series right decision to play Rohit over him but Pujara is very much required and his role will be needed soon too on the minefields we get at home these days.

 

stop looking at statsguru and think with some cricketing acumen.

[zen]

13 minutes ago, maniac said:

Let me put things into context....had pujara been out for a duck in the 2nd test....let us say we would have been 100 runs short thanks to his innings and the impact his dismissal would have had....which means we still would have had the extra time on the 4th day to pick atleast a 2-3 wickets more....getting 6 wickets is not even the same context as picking the last 3 which means we would have won that game comfortably even if we were a 100 runs short in the 1st innings.

^lol .... how about a WI bowler picking up a hattrick - Pujara, Kolhi and Rahane. Ind being 87/4 on day 1 

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, Texan said:

I am really a little baffled at how much outrage dropping of Pujara has caused here than that of Vijay. To me, Vijay's performances in Tests over the last couple of years warrant that he must be picked for every match. He has performed in different conditions and looks more solid than even Pujara. I think the outrage with dropping Pujara has mkre to do with his replacement, Rohit who is seen as a proven failure in Test cricket. 

 

Now, lets be fair. Outside of Asia, Pujara has done precious little to warrant selection. His record outside Asia is not really setting the World on fire. The clamour for Pujara has more to do with the fact that changing the batting lineup to accommodate Rohit is not just causing other successful players like Kohli to fail, but also not getting any returns in the form of any contributions from Rohit. Personally, I feel Pujara should be picked ahead of Rohit simply because accommodating Rohit is causing further damage to the rest of the batting lineup since he is not a direct fit for the spot occupied by Pujara. And if we are playing at home, Pujara's home record should make him an automatic pick. However, Pujara also needs to pull up his socks and start contributing outside Asia as well whenever he is presented with a chance. He cannot just have a long international Test career by being a bully at home and a mouse abroad. I don't think this is the end of his career. He should get chances, but he also needs to understand that he needs to prove himself outside Asia. 

yes, he has not made big scores overseas but it is not always about runs. When openers go early which usually happens with Indian team, it is #3 batsman's job to stop the fall and he has done it several times, playing out the new ball. He did the same in first two tests here. He could not score big but the did provide likes of Kohli and Rahane the platform. Look what happened to when he batted at 3. We do need our top 3 batsman to be solid. It is not like Vijay sores big runs, even he does not score big runs that often. He probably has the lowest average among Vijay, Kohli, Rahane, but he does provide that solidity top of the order like Pujara. Pujara has struggled to score big runs but he has still played more balls than anyone else in this team.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, maniac said:

Let me put things into context....had pujara been out for a duck in the 2nd test....let us say we would have been 100 runs short thanks to his innings and the impact his dismissal would have had....which means we still would have had the extra time on the 4th day to pick atleast a 2-3 wickets more....getting 6 wickets is not even the same context as picking the last 3 which means we would have won that game comfortably even if we were a 100 runs short in the 1st innings.

 

now by the same context look at the 3rd test....rohit's Quickfire knock did have some impact in the way we could force a declaration and give ourselves a shot at winning the tests.

 

now yes stats are important too which Rohit seems to fall behind by a lot and Pujara has the numbers even though he might be not capable of playing a quick fire knock or an impact innings too often( I know the inning a in Srilanka will get mentioned but how often can he repeat that?)

 

now the ideal candidate should have both which is a no brainer but how many such players are available ?

 

so right now Kohli and Kumble's motive is to

force results and get as many victories under the belt...so these theories of Kohli protecting his bff etc are plain bs....No way Kohli can override Kumble here....which means playing Rohit was a well thought out desicion.

 

Impact innings doesn't mean a quick fire knock...what Vijay has done often blunting out the new ball can be considered as such too and there is a scope and role for Pujara on some pitches but if the objective here is to accumulate as many wins as possible against wi....then the option would be to put the game out of their reach and give our relatively weaker link which is bowling that additional time to take 20 wickets.

 

Rohit may not have the numbers but he certainly has the reputation so I don't see any wrong in utilizing him over Pujara who currently seems to have only 1 gear.

 

Pujara's career is not over, in the context of this series right decision to play Rohit over him but Pujara is very much required and his role will be needed soon too on the minefields we get at home these days.

 

stop looking at statsguru and think with some cricketing acumen.

hwo could we have won that game comfortably? WI had taken a lead already and we would never know how many more they would have scored.

[Texan]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

yes, he has not made big scores overseas but it is not always about runs. When openers go early which usually happens with Indian team, it is #3 batsman's job to stop the fall and he has done it several times, playing out the new ball. He did the same in first two tests here. He could not score big but the did provide likes of Kohli and Rahane the platform. Look what happened to when he batted at 3. We do need our top 3 batsman to be solid. It is not like Vijay sores big runs, even he does not score big runs that often. He probably has the lowest average among Vijay, Kohli, Rahane, but he does provide that solidity top of the order like Pujara. Pujara has struggled to score big runs but he has still played more balls than anyone else in this team.

Vijay over the last 2-3 years has been fairly consistent. Since we all love looking at stats, here are the averages for all Indian batsmen since the start of 2014. Only Rahane, Kohli and Vijay average over 40. All others have been inconsistent. Pujara averages a low 30, even below Dhoni.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;spanmin2=01+Jan+2014;spanval2=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

Vijay over the last 2-3 years has been fairly consistent. Since we all love looking at stats, here are the averages for all Indian batsmen since the start of 2014. Only Rahane, Kohli and Vijay average over 40. All others have been inconsistent. Pujara averages a low 30, even below Dhoni.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;spanmin2=01+Jan+2014;spanval2=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

 

what about last 7 tests since Pujara's come back? He has not done anything wrong in these test then why has he been dropped. You cannot take long term stats all the time because Pujara was dropped in Aus and did not play first to tests in SL too and then made hsi caome back is averaging 45 since then. Vijay is averaging 33 in that period. Kohli also less than Pujara, so, should Kohli and Vijay be dropped? 

[express bowling]

On 8/14/2016 at 5:49 PM, zen said:

 

I don't think you understood my point and are lost in 'genrealizations'. 

 

ow you have come up with the general term - "Effective". To know who can be effective, one should be able to show the traits required to be successful in tests. When you see someone like Rahane bat, you know he is suited to test matches. When you see a Raina, you know he may not be as successful in tests as others

 

 

If the choice is b/w picking Dravid or Yuvraj. I would pick Dravid because he is a proper test batsmen displaying the classic test match batting. I would not pick Yuvraj, who is a good batsmen too btw, just because he can play quickly. In limited overs, I would do the opposite

 

Now do test teams need players like Yuvraj. Some sides may need them depending upon its composition. Do limited overs team need players like Dravid. Yes, again some teams would need them depending upon the composition. Can these players be effective in the respective formats, again the answer is yes depending upon how effective is defined for a team. Do people know what has happened in test cricket in the past 20 years. The answer is again yes .... But does all these change the fact that a batsmen showing classic test batting (say a test specialist) be dropped vs someone who probably does not (relatively speaking) but can play at a relatively higher SR - No

 

 

 

You have missed the first point of my first post replying to you on this issue.  This is what I said .

 

22 hours ago, express bowling said:

 I agree completely about the need to pick Pujara over Rohit.

I am not condoning the inclusion of a bad  test batsman like Rohit replacing a decent one.   If somehow Pujara is not available for selection in a series,  I would want a new batsman in his place ....because  Rohit lacks the temperament to bat in test matches.

 

I  was replying to this part of your post 

 

20 hours ago, zen said:

Sad to hear this. Really enjoyed classical test batting of Che. Of late, I don't recall watching a batsman having the patience to leave 6 balls in a row 

 

Appears as if some folks want to make tests, ODIs and t20s similar 

 

Do whatever you want in Odis and T20s. Leave tests for the classic test match fans 

My point is, Pujara has been a very average test batsman in the last two and a half years. Staring from 2014, he is averaging 30 in test matches. In his whole career, he averages just 29 in tests  played outside Asia.  Leaving deliveries, looking classic and all that is ok but unless he scores runs  more consistently and heavily,  he will just  be an average test batsman. 

 

Which is why  I raised the question of effectiveness. Whatever your batting style, I want those batsmen in my test team who score runs consistently and in most places in the world. 

 

Many great or good test batsmen have used ODI style batting in test matches very effectively. That includes many batters from the champion Australian and WI sides.  We have seen excellent test batters like Sehwag, Gilchrist and Warner.  ODI influence has been there in test matches for quite some time and no one is going to leave test matches completely for the classic test match fans. Influence of LOIs on test matches will increase with every passing year. 

 

Yuvraj, Raina, Rohit etc. do not deserve a place in test teams because they lack test temperament and could not / cannot score either consistently or heavily in tests.   You should not compare a Yuvraj, Raina, Rohit  with Dravid in a test match but Sehwag with Dravid  or Kohli with Pujara.

 

In a nutshell, if you want to enjoy the batsman-ship of batsmen like Pujara in tests, they need to score runs more consistently and heavily all over the world.  Otherwise they will be replaced because there are a lot of commercial considerations that drive cricket  these days.

 

I know you won't rett-ify my points because you are now  zen-zational            

Edited August 15, 2016 by express bowling

[CG]

My point is, Pujara has been a very average test batsman in the last two and a half years. Staring from 2014, he is averaging 30 in test matches. In his whole career, he averages just 29 in tests  played outside Asia.  Leaving deliveries, looking classic and all that is ok but unless he scores runs  more consistently and heavily,  he will just  be an average test batsman. 

 

Which is why  I raised the question of effectiveness. Whatever your batting style, I want those batsmen in my test team who score runs consistently and in most places in the world. 

 

Many great or good test batsmen have used ODI style batting in test matches very effectively. That includes many batters from the champion Australian and WI sides.  We have seen excellent test batters like Sehwag, Gilchrist and Warner.  ODI influence has been there in test matches for quite some time and no one is going to leave test matches completely for the classic test match fans. Influence of LOIs on test matches will increase with every passing year. 

 

Yuvraj, Raina, Rohit etc. do not deserve a place in test teams because they lack test temperament and could not / cannot score either consistently or heavily in tests.   You should not compare a Yuvraj, Raina, Rohit  with Dravid in a test match but Sehwag with Dravid  or Kohli with Pujara.

 

In a nutshell, if you want to enjoy the batsman-ship of batsmen like Pujara in tests, they need to score runs more consistently and heavily all over the world.  Otherwise they will be replaced because there are a lot of commercial considerations that drives cricket  these days.

 

I know you won't rett-ify my points because you are now  zen-zational            

I do not agree you can compare Raina ,Yuvraj with Rohit.Raina and Yuvi had too many technical issue a which meant they were going to struggle in tests.Rohit does not have such issues it's only matter of time.Regarding temperament Rohit Bats as a test match player

He gets in to shell too much which causes rash shot instead of rotating the strike.It was a problem in ODIs which he overcame .

[CG]

Regarding Pujara I feel captains lack of confidence will make it harder for him.He needs to be backed as if he can sort his technical issues he can again be a rock at three.

[mishra]

53 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I know you won't rett-ify my points because you are now  zen-zational            

[Vilander]

i want these jokers to play with quality opposition without Pujara and Vijay..in swinging seaming conditions it would be fun to watch. There wont be any resistance.