BSF kills 7 Pak Rangers, one terrorist on Jammu border - Its escalating folks.

[Laaloo]

1 hour ago, rahulrulezz said:

 

Firstly, I am against us commoners to celebrate the death of innocent soldiers. How would we feel if 7 innocent Indian armymen are sniped by Pakistani army men and you see Pakistanis thumping their chest. End of the day, 7 innocent lives along with dream of their families were crushed. 

What I would want is both armies to make a deal to not shoot at each other no matter of what. Rather secure and mine the whole border so no terrorist can cross over. 

Those bastards shoot at our soldiers after calling a cease. After we lay our weapons down, they shoot at us. I dont got sympathy.

 

Look at how many times they have broken a cease.

Edited October 22, 2016 by laaloo

[MechEng]

3 hours ago, rahulrulezz said:

 

Firstly, I am against us commoners to celebrate the death of innocent soldiers. How would we feel if 7 innocent Indian armymen are sniped by Pakistani army men and you see Pakistanis thumping their chest. End of the day, 7 innocent lives along with dream of their families were crushed. 

What I would want is both armies to make a deal to not shoot at each other no matter of what. Rather secure and mine the whole border so no terrorist can cross over. 

 

If you think Pakistani army have innocent soldiers and understand fair-play, then why don't they protest against army's plans of assisting militants in Kashmir ? Well, why should they ? After all killing a kafir is a bonus.

Edited October 22, 2016 by MechEng

[Adi_91]

These BS idiots should be shown the price for such blatant violations and war mongering. It is time we show them what our might is.

[New guy]

12 hours ago, radhika said:

They have been doing that for ages...just that now our forces have been given the choice of retaliation .

Really? Border firing and retaliation has happened for decades so this is wrong. When was there ever an instance when they fired on us and we didn't fire back?

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

 

If you think Pakistani army have innocent soldiers and understand fair-play, then why don't they protest against army's plans of assisting militants in Kashmir ? Well, why should they ? After all killing a kafir is a bonus.

Going against the senior members of military results in court martial which can result even in death. There is a reason no one revolts against seniors in military

[chewy]

Should read more like 7 terrorists shot dead and 1 terrorist killed.

the bastard Pakistani army are the terrorists 

[beetle]

2 hours ago, New guy said:

Really? Border firing and retaliation has happened for decades so this is wrong. When was there ever an instance when they fired on us and we didn't fire back?

Going against the senior members of military results in court martial which can result even in death. There is a reason no one revolts against seniors in military

 

The military was not given a free hand. 

There was too much emphasis on not ruffling feathers,maintaining status quo ,not openly acknowledging  if something was done. 

Now we fire when the need to fire arises  and tell the count  of dead openly.That has a big impact on the enemy....they also have to answer to their people .

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, Adi_91 said:

These BS idiots should be shown the price for such blatant violations and war mongering. It is time we show them what our might is.

Our might is not very much and Pakistan knows it. 
The situation is very simple, never ever forget that the scenario is : India is that 'cautious but capable kid of grade 10' of the neighbourhood, China is the big-bad bully, grade-12 guy, Pakistan is the grade 7 'chamcha/mouth' of the bully, who exists only as a power-check to us. 

 

India does not have a 'war option' against Pakistan, except the clandestine/surgical strike ones until India has a plan on how to resist the Chinese if they flex their might. The Himalayas are impenetrable by and large, but the Chinese are fully capable of gobbling up bits of Arunachal (Tawang), Sikkim, parts of Ladakh if it came to straight-up war in the Himalayas between us and them.

It is reasonable to expect, that India is going to have to massively bolster its forces in-order to hold fast against large scale Chinese incursions into the Himalayas. Which is why India is on a staggering spending spree in defence circles. 

Nukes or no nukes, a large scale war with Pakistan cannot be contemplated without having a means to winning a defensive war in the Himalayas/Andamans against China. 

 

Edited October 22, 2016 by Muloghonto

[SLICKR392]

LOL! This is literally a war strategy. Storm in, and we will cover you! Spastic Government ruled by a bunch of dolts in the army. Need to sent out one more statement to shut them for good.

Edited October 22, 2016 by SLICKR392

[beetle]

Pak Army uses these terrorists to save their asses from bullets.

They give them cover while the terrorist take the actual risk of losing life while they sit safely.

They need to be be hurt .

[CG]

Our might is not very much and Pakistan knows it. 

The situation is very simple, never ever forget that the scenario is : India is that 'cautious but capable kid of grade 10' of the neighbourhood, China is the big-bad bully, grade-12 guy, Pakistan is the grade 7 'chamcha/mouth' of the bully, who exists only as a power-check to us. 

 

India does not have a 'war option' against Pakistan, except the clandestine/surgical strike ones until India has a plan on how to resist the Chinese if they flex their might. The Himalayas are impenetrable by and large, but the Chinese are fully capable of gobbling up bits of Arunachal (Tawang), Sikkim, parts of Ladakh if it came to straight-up war in the Himalayas between us and them.

It is reasonable to expect, that India is going to have to massively bolster its forces in-order to hold fast against large scale Chinese incursions into the Himalayas. Which is why India is on a staggering spending spree in defence circles. 

Nukes or no nukes, a large scale war with Pakistan cannot be contemplated without having a means to winning a defensive war in the Himalayas/Andamans against China. 

 

I am pretty sure China will ditch Pak rather than go to war against India.Economies will not allow it any way.Like 1971 they will just wait and watch.

[randomGuy]

China will never attack India. There are more chances of India going to war with China than vice versa. So stop worrying please. 

 

1. Indian army is extremely strong. 

2. China has weak spots in xinjiang n tibet.

3.dismal demographics...China population in 20-40 yr age group will reduce by 70-75% in Abt 50 yrs. So there's absolutely no reason  to go to war apart from assured destruction of China. 

Edited October 22, 2016 by randomGuy

[Muloghonto]

China will attack India if India attacks Pakistan. I thought people know that to be one of the most basic action plans for our military.

As for Indian army being extremely strong....lol. Yeah, it is if you want to stay in the small league of 3rd world and little European nations. PLA can whack Indian army pretty good, even today. That is not an exaggeration.

Also Chinese 'weak points' in Xinjiang are not exploitable for India and Tibet..well, India has far more 'holes' in its border with China than vice versa.

 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

China will attack India if India attacks Pakistan. I thought people know that to be one of the most basic action plans for our military.

As for Indian army being extremely strong....lol. Yeah, it is if you want to stay in the small league of 3rd world and little European nations. PLA can whack Indian army pretty good, even today. That is not an exaggeration.

Also Chinese 'weak points' in Xinjiang are not exploitable for India and Tibet..well, India has far more 'holes' in its border with China than vice versa.

 

China will never go for any overt interference in India.Heck they havent gone to war for Arunachal and Sikkim and you think they will go to war for Pakistan.

Who told you that PLA can whack the Indian Army any day?I suggest you do some reading on this.IA cannot win but they very well can hold PLA to a stalemate.

Any Chinese interference will drag in powers who are hell bent on stopping any chinese hegemony.These powers will never let China rule from Arabian Sea to the East China Sea.And these countries can cripple China militarily and economically.The world equation has changed.

[randomGuy]

59 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

China will attack India if India attacks Pakistan. I thought people know that to be one of the most basic action plans for our military.

As for Indian army being extremely strong....lol. Yeah, it is if you want to stay in the small league of 3rd world and little European nations. PLA can whack Indian army pretty good, even today. That is not an exaggeration.

Also Chinese 'weak points' in Xinjiang are not exploitable for India and Tibet..well, India has far more 'holes' in its border with China than vice versa.

 

If u insist on being paranoid, on ignoring ground realities  and insist on underestimating IA,  I can't do anything. 

[FischerTal]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

China will attack India if India attacks Pakistan. I thought people know that to be one of the most basic action plans for our military.

As for Indian army being extremely strong....lol. Yeah, it is if you want to stay in the small league of 3rd world and little European nations. PLA can whack Indian army pretty good, even today. That is not an exaggeration.

Also Chinese 'weak points' in Xinjiang are not exploitable for India and Tibet..well, India has far more 'holes' in its border with China than vice versa.

 

no it won't. the chinese will not attack india, simply because they know it will invite a retaliation from the united states, which is looking for the right excuse to rain hell on china, with the help of allied forces. there is enough discontent among southeast asian nations with China regarding the South China Sea dispute, which can easily be exploited by America. don't forget Japan and South Korea will also be dragged into the conflict because of their close relations with Washington DC. 

 

Russia will give moral support to the Chinese, but won't risk sending its military because of their business relations with India. Just last week, Rosneft invested 13 billion dollars in India, while India gave close to 8 billion dollars in defense deals. thats a relationship putin wants intact. even though russia is growing close to China because of their laggard economy, their main goal will be to maintain neutrality as they are in no position financially to embark on a full-scale military offensive. 

 

Indian Armed forces are currently not at their strongest, but looking at Modi's rapid pace to modernize the military, India can easily hold off China in the future ( not defeat it obviously). The only main concern for India is its Air Force. With the rolling in of the Rafale, and subsequently the LCA Tejas or maybe the F-16IN, India's military will be more than capable to fight a two-front war by the late 2020's. 

 

The biggest weak point for Chinese is Indian navy. the threat of a blockade that will cut off oil supplies to their country still worries them the most, hence their frantic push to find alternative routes to get oil from the Middle East and Central Asia.

Edited October 22, 2016 by FischerTal

[Vilander]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

China will attack India if India attacks Pakistan. I thought people know that to be one of the most basic action plans for our military.

As for Indian army being extremely strong....lol. Yeah, it is if you want to stay in the small league of 3rd world and little European nations. PLA can whack Indian army pretty good, even today. That is not an exaggeration.

Also Chinese 'weak points' in Xinjiang are not exploitable for India and Tibet..well, India has far more 'holes' in its border with China than vice versa.

 

You should read the chola incident. No one can whack indian army thats for sure. Chinese tanks cant cross himalayas its montane foot soldiers so just numeric superiority which will be erroded as IA grows. But you are talking about indian ability to stop pla advance not strike

The joker philipino durette went to china and says he is seperating from US wtf does he mean by that. And then that putin china and himself would stand against the world lol what is he 5th grader.

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

You should read the chola incident. No one can whack indian army thats for sure. Chinese tanks cant cross himalayas its montane foot soldiers so just numeric superiority which will be erroded as IA grows. But you are talking about indian ability to stop pla advance not strike

The joker philipino durette went to china and says he is seperating from US wtf does he mean by that. And then that putin china and himself would stand against the world lol what is he 5th grader.

Just because you can't use tanks, doesnt mean its down to who has more numbers. Chinese infantry is far better supplied than Indian infantry is, for basic armaments. Their road network & logistics in Himalaya-Tibet is orders of magnitude greater than that of India. 

Do not underestimate your enemy. The Chinese are more powerful than India, there is no question about it. 

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, FischerTal said:

no it won't. the chinese will not attack india, simply because they know it will invite a retaliation from the united states, which is looking for the right excuse to rain hell on china, with the help of allied forces. there is enough discontent among southeast asian nations with China regarding the South China Sea dispute, which can easily be exploited by America. don't forget Japan and South Korea will also be dragged into the conflict because of their close relations with Washington DC. 

 

Russia will give moral support to the Chinese, but won't risk sending its military because of their business relations with India. Just last week, Rosneft invested 13 billion dollars in India, while India gave close to 8 billion dollars in defense deals. thats a relationship putin wants intact. even though russia is growing close to China because of their laggard economy, their main goal will be to maintain neutrality as they are in no position financially to embark on a full-scale military offensive. 

 

Indian Armed forces are currently not at their strongest, but looking at Modi's rapid pace to modernize the military, India can easily hold off China in the future ( not defeat it obviously). The only main concern for India is its Air Force. With the rolling in of the Rafale, and subsequently the LCA Tejas or maybe the F-16IN, India's military will be more than capable to fight a two-front war by the late 2020's. 

 

The biggest weak point for Chinese is Indian navy. the threat of a blockade that will cut off oil supplies to their country still worries them the most, hence their frantic push to find alternative routes to get oil from the Middle East and Central Asia.

China will 'attack' India in the event India attacks Pakistan on a major offensive, under the pretext of preventing war/stopping war between nuclear nations. 

As for the IAF, the IAF is about to enter its worst phase very soon. We need close to 50 squadrons to maintain a 'two-front deterrence', currently we have 41 squadrons and the number are dropping fast.

LCA is a dud because HAL cannot build more than 15 per year. By the time HAL builds 120 LCA, it would be close to 2030 and LCA would be an 'average' fighter of that day (remember, LCA is a late 1980s/early 1990s design). 

Currently IAF has 240 SU-30 (30 more to come), 3 LCA, 60-70 Mig-29, 50 Mirage 2000 and 145 Jaguars. Even if you include the Rafale, India will be looking at 600-625 combat ready air superiority/multirole fighters...which is about 30-35 squadrons. 

We are retiring 245 mig-21 by 2022 (thats less than 6 years from now), 120 Mig-27 are gone by the end of next year. 

 

The IAF will be in no position to challenge the PLAAF + PAF till 2030 at the very least, because our numbers simply do not add up. Mind you, the 50 squadron force is seen as IAF to maintain credible deterrence in our own airspace, not sustained offensive action. 

 

As for our navy, gone are the days our navy could challenge the Chinese navy. Right now, China's navy is way, way stronger.

a) it has the bigger navy than India ( it is the 2nd largest navy in the world after USN, in terms of total tonnage displaced. India is 5th largest)

b) China has : 11 nuclear subs (+5 under construction), 57 conventional subs (+5 under construction), 1 A/C with 2 under construction, 28 destroyers, 46 frigates and 228 amphibious landing ships. 

c) India has: 1 nuclear sub (+2 more under construction + 6 more planned), 13 conventional subs (with 6 more under construction & 6 more planned), 2 A/C with 1 under construction & 1 more planned, 10 destroyers (3 planned), 15 frigates (7 more planned) and 16 amphibious landing ships. 

As you can see, conflict with China, India is very far behind the quality & numbers game.

 

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

China will 'attack' India in the event India attacks Pakistan on a major offensive, under the pretext of preventing war/stopping war between nuclear nations. 

As for the IAF, the IAF is about to enter its worst phase very soon. We need close to 50 squadrons to maintain a 'two-front deterrence', currently we have 41 squadrons and the number are dropping fast.

LCA is a dud because HAL cannot build more than 15 per year. By the time HAL builds 120 LCA, it would be close to 2030 and LCA would be an 'average' fighter of that day (remember, LCA is a late 1980s/early 1990s design). 

Currently IAF has 240 SU-30 (30 more to come), 3 LCA, 60-70 Mig-29, 50 Mirage 2000 and 145 Jaguars. Even if you include the Rafale, India will be looking at 600-625 combat ready air superiority/multirole fighters...which is about 30-35 squadrons. 

We are retiring 245 mig-21 by 2022 (thats less than 6 years from now), 120 Mig-27 are gone by the end of next year. 

 

The IAF will be in no position to challenge the PLAAF + PAF till 2030 at the very least, because our numbers simply do not add up. Mind you, the 50 squadron force is seen as IAF to maintain credible deterrence in our own airspace, not sustained offensive action. 

 

As for our navy, gone are the days our navy could challenge the Chinese navy. Right now, China's navy is way, way stronger.

a) it has the bigger navy than India ( it is the 2nd largest navy in the world after USN, in terms of total tonnage displaced. India is 5th largest)

b) China has : 11 nuclear subs (+5 under construction), 57 conventional subs (+5 under construction), 1 A/C with 2 under construction, 28 destroyers, 46 frigates and 228 amphibious landing ships. 

c) India has: 1 nuclear sub (+2 more under construction + 6 more planned), 13 conventional subs (with 6 more under construction & 6 more planned), 2 A/C with 1 under construction & 1 more planned, 10 destroyers (3 planned), 15 frigates (7 more planned) and 16 amphibious landing ships. 

As you can see, conflict with China, India is very far behind the quality & numbers game.

 

Wars are fought within theaters chinese conventional advantage has to be understood with their massive coast and littoral engagements they have more power in their nuke submarines thats a given. But they need to come to indian ocean and bob and engage india, its going to be a mountain division levl skirmish and probably will escalate to iaf vs plaf over ne and tibet. You are comparing military strength here no one will contest China is stronger but there is no way they can directly engage India alone without any pan global ramification.

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

Just because you can't use tanks, doesnt mean its down to who has more numbers. Chinese infantry is far better supplied than Indian infantry is, for basic armaments. Their road network & logistics in Himalaya-Tibet is orders of magnitude greater than that of India. 

Do not underestimate your enemy. The Chinese are more powerful than India, there is no question about it. 

Again in order to be an effective offensive force china needs a far greater numeric superiority than what they can acheive across the lac their key addition is the rail network and roads till the lac they can move their divisions pretty quickly but will have to contend with waiting till plaf dominates the air space.  This is where things get interesting with s400 and akash/prithvi/barak systems come into play. There is no way china is ready to escalate border with India to the levels of its eastern and south eastern sectors. If you see india is not going full speed in deploying strike corps in ne but opening advance air strips and getting bmd there is caution yet quite confidence in it but no underestimation.