Both India and England Need Changes

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, Sidhoni said:

Has Yadav done enough to keep out someone who has picked 2 fifers in last two tests he played? When was the last time Yadav picked up a fifer btw?

did those 5-fers were picked on a pitch like this?

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, WeStMiDz said:

One reason for playing Bhuvi is his ability to bowl to left handers. Can provide control and a wicket taking option up front. 

if you exclude  his wickets on green tops in WI, Eden and England, how many wickets he has on pitches like these?

Edited November 21, 2016 by rkt.india

[Sidhoni]

Just now, rkt.india said:

did those 5-fers were picked on a pitch like this?

Pitch is not something to be under consideration here. The way I see it, Bhuvi bowled well in last 2 matches he played, Umesh replaced him as he was injured but didn't perform well enough to keep a fit Bhuvi out of the side.

[SUMO]

bhuvi couldn't have gone through defense of bairstow in vizag to give crucial breakthrough out of nothing.
neither yadav could have taken a fifer in kolkata like pitches
its horses for courses at the moment 

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, Sidhoni said:

Pitch is not something to be under consideration here. The way I see it, Bhuvi bowled well in last 2 matches he played, Umesh replaced him as he was injured but didn't perform well enough to keep a fit Bhuvi out of the side.

BK was picked in the first place for Umesh because of the conditions. Umesh played first test against NZ but 2nd test pitch was green, so, they picked BK. Horses for courses. I dont see BK playing if the pitch is not green. Till now, he has only been played on green pitches. 

[SUMO]

shami and bhuvi are best seamers for india. 
shami is for all condition unfortunately bhuvi not.

Edited November 21, 2016 by SUMO

[WeStMiDz]

BK has added a yard of pace and is no longer solely reliant on swing. He can extract seam movement which he will be able to do on these kind of pitches. 

[Sidhoni]

17 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

BK was picked in the first place for Umesh because of the conditions. Umesh played first test against NZ but 2nd test pitch was green, so, they picked BK. Horses for courses. I dont see BK playing if the pitch is not green. Till now, he has only been played on green pitches. 

The decision to drop Bhuvi for first test against NZ after bowling well in WI was also a wrong one IMO.

[express bowling]

The way Kohli specifically kept talking in the post-match interview about how well his fast bowlers bowled in this match....there is good chance that the same fast bowlers will be retained in the next test unless there is significant swing on offer.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by express bowling

[G_B_]

As i said its in the north and IMO there will be early morning swing on offer. Ths is exactly why the mood in the England camp is against picking Finn. I expect bhuvi to swing it with the new ball and then maintain a tight line

 

Not to mention better contributions with the bat. Umesh bowled 26 overs 1/64 and scored 13 runs in 2 innings. I feel we can get better output out of bhuvi.

 

V SA in 2015 Umesh had no impact at Mohali either. No wickets and 6 runs in 2 innings

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903603.html

[SUMO]

kohli ko pace pasand hai 

[Ankit_sharma03]

If conditions are dry Umesh wud play and if their is some grass n convential swing on offer which i highly doubt there wud be bhuvi wud play.

Plzz dnt put bhuvi in shami category, shami can bowl in any condition with new and old ball.

Bhuvi needs swing, in WI when he got wkt it rained before that session same was in kolkata. If u watch Bhuvi had 29 wkts in 1st 12 test in which most wud have come in Eng only. Whereas umesh had 44 wkts in 12 test. 

 

Now talking about umesh fifer well if 4 catches of his wudnt have been dropped in 1st innings of 1st test he wud have had a fifer. Its no fault of his that catches were dropped. The ball his bowled to bairstrow was peach n bhuvi wnt be able to bowl that. 

 

Bhuvi is as overrated as anyone, he is a very condition n batsman dependant bowler. Not only swing he needs batsman with poor footwork. Thats why he always does well against Pak, WI, SL .Give him the same pitch with pak batsman and SA batsman and result would be chalk n cheese. 

 

Bhuvi should play in mohali if there is grass which would not happen by any chance. 

 

Mohali surfrace would surely be kept dry and thats where reverse swing comes into play and umesh is great exponent of reverse.

 

And who says umesh cant bowl convential swing, watch recent ind-nz odi series, bhuvi with new ball has been abysmal for past 2 yrs. 

He needs help not only from pitch but batsman to. Cook n hameed doesnt have that poor footwork 

 

Here is something aakash chopra recently wrote about umesh- something very intersting-

 

Umesh's use of the crease

In the first over of the day Umesh Yadav showed he's constantly evolving as a bowler. He's not only clocking speeds in the high 140kph range consistently but also using the crease quite well. Usually he bowls from the middle of the box but in the first over today, he went to the corner of the crease and also came closer to the stumps. The idea behind using the crease is to create new angles and therefore sow the seeds of doubt.

 

No substitute for pace

Once a batsman gets set on Indian pitches, there's not much a fast bowler can do to dislodge him, for there's no help from the surface. Even if there's reverse-swing available, it's not as lethal unless you have extra pace. To produce a wicket-taking ball, you need extra pace, and that's where Umesh was sensational. He beat a well-set Bairstow with extra pace, for that accentuated the reverse-swing. This Indian team is blessed to have two fast bowlers who bowl at over 140kph consistently and that's why they have been able to contribute in this home season.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[rkt.india]

23 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

As i said its in the north and IMO there will be early morning swing on offer. Ths is exactly why the mood in the England camp is against picking Finn. I expect bhuvi to swing it with the new ball and then maintain a tight line

 

Not to mention better contributions with the bat. Umesh bowled 26 overs 1/64 and scored 13 runs in 2 innings. I feel we can get better output out of bhuvi.

 

V SA in 2015 Umesh had no impact at Mohali either. No wickets and 6 runs in 2 innings

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-south-africa-2015-16/engine/current/match/903603.html

it is not that cold yet, match starts at 9:30, not 7 o'clock. 

[SUMO]

england should go with this line up in mohali -

hameed 
cook
root
bairstow
moeen
stokes
butler (wk)

woakes
rashid
broad 
anderson

 

mohali pitch should be like SA series last yr otherwise we will give them a very good chance to come back
our batting line is not firing...kohli is saving us atm

[G_B_]

1 minute ago, SUMO said:

england should go with this line up in mohali -

hameed 
cook
root
bairstow
moeen
stokes
butler (wk)

woakes
rashid
broad 
anderson

 

mohali pitch should be like SA series last yr otherwise we will give them a very good chance to come back
our batting line is not firing...kohli is saving us atm

broad is injured....

 

they might go with an extra bat.

[SUMO]

4 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

broad is injured....

 

they might go with an extra bat.

just a niggle...he bowled very well inspite of that

butler at 7 will give them extra bat...duckkett was a free wicket

[G_B_]

13 minutes ago, SUMO said:

just a niggle...he bowled very well inspite of that

butler at 7 will give them extra bat...duckkett was a free wicket

I think this might be the team

 

Cook

Hameed

Root

Bairstow

Stokes

Ali

Butler (wk)

Woakes

Rashid

Anderson

Batty

 

Thats whats being banded about on English forums. 

[Lannister]

England will be much stronger next match. So we need to sort out our batting problem soon. If it's a patta play extra batsman, and choose your 4 bowlers wisely according to conditions.  

[SUMO]

9 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

I think this might be the team

 

Cook

Hameed

Root

Bairstow

Stokes

Ali

Butler (wk)

Woakes

Rashid

Anderson

Batty

 

Thats whats being banded about on English forums. 

his bowling will be no better than ansari and batting wise pure tailender...fielding also might be poor for a 39 yr old

better to go with a fast bowler broad(if fit) or jake ball/finn

[The Realist]

31 minutes ago, Lannister said:

England will be much stronger next match. So we need to sort out our batting problem soon. If it's a patta play extra batsman, and choose your 4 bowlers wisely according to conditions.  

Absolutely.

 

With their deep batting line-up expect Eng to put up another big score or two in the rest of the series. Question is whether Ind can do likewise consistently with the current flaky batting line-up especially if Kohli and Pujara have off days.