Got to feel for Umesh Yadav

[fineleg]

8 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Umesh and Shami, as of today might just be the world's best fast bowling pair. They are definitely better than English and Pakistani bowlers presently. 

 

Thats simply not true/

[diga]

8 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Umesh and Shami, as of today might just be the world's best fast bowling pair. They are definitely better than English and Pakistani bowlers presently. 

 

you forgot about Starc/Hazelwood , Anderson/Broad , Abbot/Rabada

[rkt.india]

12 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

He is a decent support bowler in Indian conditions .

He simply doesn't have the consistency or ability with new ball to be a world class bowler .

Even when on his best form he hardly picks up more than 2-3 wickets at best .Compare this with Bhuvi when conditions favour him , he runs through batting line ups .

He will look good in India because he isn't under pressure to be main bowler as spinners deliver .

But the problem will be laid bare again when go overseas and expect him to deliver match winning spells .He simply isnt capable of that on a consistent basis .

I really would try to find a younger potential pacers in these home tests if possible and try to develop them for the real tests .

But conditions didn't really favour him.

[gakgupta]

Umesh and Shami, as of today might just be the world's best fast bowling pair. They are definitely better than English and Pakistani bowlers presently. 

 

Nope....

As of today thy cannot setup a batsmen on regular batsmen. They rely on magic deliveries to get their wickets.

However, Shami showed signs of intelligent bowling lately. Cooks wicket was incredible.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

[zaqw222222]

Hope he continues this improvement

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, gakgupta said:

Nope....

As of today thy cannot setup a batsmen on regular batsmen. They rely on magic deliveries to get their wickets.

However, Shami showed signs of intelligent bowling lately. Cooks wicket was incredible.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Even after setting up a batsman, you will need a really good wicket taking delivery to get him out.

[vishalvirsingh]

11 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

You are deluded if u think they are better than Anderson and Broad

I agree.

Anderson and broad as a group are better than umesh and Shammi.

[jusarrived]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

But conditions didn't really favour him.

you mean familiar home conditions ? 

[jusarrived]

I think the challenge for Indian pace bowlers always been adapting to conditions overseas . Only a handful of cases where we have exploited helpful conditions when we play in places like Eng , SA or Aus . Only zaheer has been an exception who could bowl well both home and away , but even he was much better at home . 

[jusarrived]

27 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

I agree.

Anderson and broad as a group are better than umesh and Shammi.

Even individually they are better , every trip to SC you see them improving ..few years back Anderson especially was supposedly a bowler who could only bowl well in england , and look where he is now . 

Be it a batsmen or a bowler , to be world class you should be able to adapt . 

[rkt.india]

32 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

I think the challenge for Indian pace bowlers always been adapting to conditions overseas . Only a handful of cases where we have exploited helpful conditions when we play in places like Eng , SA or Aus . Only zaheer has been an exception who could bowl well both home and away , but even he was much better at home . 

Zaheer has a very below average record at home, averages 35. Compare that to likes of Srinath who averages 26 at home. This is one thing with our pacers. If they are good overseas, they are bad at home. If they are good at home, bad overseas.

[rkt.india]

46 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

you mean familiar home conditions ? 

home conditions, but not really favoring a fast bowler. It is his pace that works in his favor at home especially when starts bowling in right areas, which does not happen often.

Edited November 27, 2016 by rkt.india

[jusarrived]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Zaheer has a very below average record at home, averages 35. Compare that to likes of Srinath who averages 26 at home. This is one thing with our pacers. If they are good overseas, they are bad at home. If they are good at home, bad overseas.

Zaheer had a pretty mediocre start to his career , am talking about the phase where he was averaging ~22 for ~years IIRC . This is the period he won matches for us home and away . yeah agree , the likes of Sree and RP won us matches away from home , Ishant was better at home . From what I have seen till now , Yadav and Shami seem to do better in Indian conditions ...Shami relatively though is unproven away , I have some hopes on him and could be the bolwer for all conditions

[jusarrived]

8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

home conditions, but not really favoring a fast bowler. It is his pace that works in his favor at home especially when starts bowling in right areas, which does not happen often.

All Pak greats have better stats at home , like you said so did Srinath ..am not saying it favours Fast bowling , but Indian bowlers have an advantage having been brought up on such pitches . its like how SA or Eng batsmen do well on their swingin/seaming conditions . I would give a lot more credit for an Asian batsmen scoring in SA/Eng than Amla or Cook . similarly Anderson and Broad deserve the credit here , rather than Yadav and Shami for picking few wickets .

[CG]

All Pak greats have better stats at home , like you said so did Srinath ..am not saying it favours Fast bowling , but Indian bowlers have an advantage having been brought up on such pitches . its like how SA or Eng batsmen do well on their swingin/seaming conditions . I would give a lot more credit for an Asian batsmen scoring in SA/Eng than Amla or Cook . similarly Anderson and Broad deserve the credit here , rather than Yadav and Shami for picking few wickets .

Sa and Eng batsman have low averages at home and perform better abroad.Cook struggles in England .

[CG]

I think the challenge for Indian pace bowlers always been adapting to conditions overseas . Only a handful of cases where we have exploited helpful conditions when we play in places like Eng , SA or Aus . Only zaheer has been an exception who could bowl well both home and away , but even he was much better at home . 

Anderson looked good because quality of batsmanship has gone down and he has gained experience Obviously also pitches play a major role.

[Rightarmfast]

21 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

You are deluded if u think they are better than Anderson and Broad

You are deluded. Dont read too much into past glories. They have a record because of the type of wickets they have bowled. Get Umesh and Shami in England, Australia or South Africa, and then see

[jusarrived]

8 minutes ago, CG said:

Sa and Eng batsman have low averages at home and perform better abroad.Cook struggles in England .

Randomly picked 2 players each from eng and SA .

Cook 45 vs his overall of 46

Amla 49 vs his overall of 51

Root 59 vs his overall of 52

Kallis 56 vs his overall of 53

AB 46 vs overall of 50 

KP 53 vs overall of 47

 

None of them have bad averages , its either same or higher ..even Cook who struggles at home ? Compare that to how SC batsmen do in these countries . 

Root averaging 59 in recent years , if you just go by how the pitches have been lately in England is close to a miracle .

[jusarrived]

14 minutes ago, CG said:

Anderson looked good because quality of batsmanship has gone down and he has gained experience Obviously also pitches play a major role.

you are not giving them enough credit . They bowled extremely well on the last tour too and even when they played Pak in UAE . What ever the reasons , at this point these guys have much superior skills than our bowlers .May be Yadav and Shami will get better in future , but from this series I wudnt read too much into it . 

[maniac]

16 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

you are not giving them enough credit . They bowled extremely well on the last tour too and even when they played Pak in UAE . What ever the reasons , at this point these guys have much superior skills than our bowlers .May be Yadav and Shami will get better in future , but from this series I wudnt read too much into it . 

Only Anderson pretty much it...as cricketers  Staokes and may be Woakes to some extent are better(Woakes was made to look like this world beating batsman by the padosis but he is a broad level batsman at best) than Shami and Umesh if you factor in their fielding and batting as well.

 

But on pure bowling to bowling comparison- Shami and Yadav are leagues better-just as bowlers